Furries Convention

[Bad^Hat]

Originally Posted by Darkside55

I'm not defending hentai, I'm saying that there is a distinction. You're misinterpreting what I'm really getting at here, which is the point that hentai and furry are two separate genres of eros material.

Googling a search for "furry hentai" brings up three image results. Three. Googling furry by itself brings up 119,000. And if you say, "check the web results," most results you're going to see for "furry hentai" would be paysites that either have search generators designed to repeat the text of your search, even if there's nothing on there, or sites made by stupid people who think that furries = hentai or vice-versa. Note that I'm not trying to call you stupid personally, you're just severely uninformed, and therefore wrong.

You're wrong about the very DEFINITION of the word hentai. What you know of hentai is the Western definition of the word that people like yourself use as an all-encompassing blanket for pornographic art. By that definition, I'm going to assume you think that American-drawn, toon-styled porn is hentai, too. Why stop there, let's include Roman bathhouse murals of orgies under hentai too. Artistic nudes? Yeah that's gotta be hentai. Totally.

Basically what you're comparing is apples to oranges, or in a more artistic sense you're comparing neo-classicism and romanticism. Apples and oranges are both fruits, and those are both forms of art, but they aren't the same thing.

Even if you look at Japanese furry artists, such as Monty (aka Po-Ju), Trump, Kemono, Comet, or even to a lesser degree the American artists Battle Angel and Zen, who draw in a manga-ish style, those works would be considered furry works and not "furry hentai." In fact, the reason Po-Ju has the alias of Monty is because he does all furry stuff under Monty and all hentai under Po-Ju. Why do this when people know it's the same person? Because he's making the distinction between the two genres.

Comparing tentacle hentai to furry hentai is, again, apples to oranges. Tentacle hentai, as abhorrent as it is, is a staple of Japanese erotic art. It dates back to I believe the 17th century (I could be off on the date), where there was a painting of an octopus wrapping itself around the exposed leg of a geisha.
Furry art, on the other hand, is drawn by people who get sexually excited looking at animal penises.

Erotic art isn't covered by one very large blanket name. Hentai is always erotic, but furry isn't. And I will bet if you check out the VCL archives and ask a fur who draws erotic art if he/she considers his/her work hentai, they might become offended. They might even try to yiff you in the butt, but they were probably gonna do that anyway since you struck up a conversation with them. They'll yiff anybody, any time, for any reason.

Anyway, I can't believe I actually wrote this post. This is so far off topic it's not even funny, and for Christ's sakes we're discussing forms of drawn erotica here, my dancing cow friend. But listen, just trust me on this...ever since middle school my friends have called me, "Hentai no Kamisama," literally "The God of Hentai." I know what I'm talking about. Be lucky that this is a kid-friendly forum. Anywhere else I wouldn't have made such a long post and instead would've posted two images: one of a nude anime girl, and the other of a certain furry image that I use only when I want to torture my enemies or have some sick laughs at someone else's expense. It would burn your retinas, ruin your childhood, and curl you up into the fetal position in a single stroke.

LOL I so didn't read that.

[Ames]

According to the Google ad at the top, there is a furry convention in Philadelphia called the Anthrocon.

Egads man.

[Raziaar]

Originally Posted by Darkside55

I'm not defending hentai, I'm saying that there is a distinction. You're misinterpreting what I'm really getting at here, which is the point that hentai and furry are two separate genres of eros material.

Googling a search for "furry hentai" brings up three image results. Three. Googling furry by itself brings up 119,000. And if you say, "check the web results," most results you're going to see for "furry hentai" would be paysites that either have search generators designed to repeat the text of your search, even if there's nothing on there, or sites made by stupid people who think that furries = hentai or vice-versa. Note that I'm not trying to call you stupid personally, you're just severely uninformed, and therefore wrong.

You're wrong about the very DEFINITION of the word hentai. What you know of hentai is the Western definition of the word that people like yourself use as an all-encompassing blanket for pornographic art. By that definition, I'm going to assume you think that American-drawn, toon-styled porn is hentai, too. Why stop there, let's include Roman bathhouse murals of orgies under hentai too. Artistic nudes? Yeah that's gotta be hentai. Totally.

Basically what you're comparing is apples to oranges, or in a more artistic sense you're comparing neo-classicism and romanticism. Apples and oranges are both fruits, and those are both forms of art, but they aren't the same thing.

Even if you look at Japanese furry artists, such as Monty (aka Po-Ju), Trump, Kemono, Comet, or even to a lesser degree the American artists Battle Angel and Zen, who draw in a manga-ish style, those works would be considered furry works and not "furry hentai." In fact, the reason Po-Ju has the alias of Monty is because he does all furry stuff under Monty and all hentai under Po-Ju. Why do this when people know it's the same person? Because he's making the distinction between the two genres.

Comparing tentacle hentai to furry hentai is, again, apples to oranges. Tentacle hentai, as abhorrent as it is, is a staple of Japanese erotic art. It dates back to I believe the 17th century (I could be off on the date), where there was a painting of an octopus wrapping itself around the exposed leg of a geisha.
Furry art, on the other hand, is drawn by people who get sexually excited looking at animal penises.

Erotic art isn't covered by one very large blanket name. Hentai is always erotic, but furry isn't. And I will bet if you check out the VCL archives and ask a fur who draws erotic art if he/she considers his/her work hentai, they might become offended. They might even try to yiff you in the butt, but they were probably gonna do that anyway since you struck up a conversation with them. They'll yiff anybody, any time, for any reason.

Anyway, I can't believe I actually wrote this post. This is so far off topic it's not even funny, and for Christ's sakes we're discussing forms of drawn erotica here, my dancing cow friend. But listen, just trust me on this...ever since middle school my friends have called me, "Hentai no Kamisama," literally "The God of Hentai." I know what I'm talking about. Be lucky that this is a kid-friendly forum. Anywhere else I wouldn't have made such a long post and instead would've posted two images: one of a nude anime girl, and the other of a certain furry image that I use only when I want to torture my enemies or have some sick laughs at someone else's expense. It would burn your retinas, ruin your childhood, and curl you up into the fetal position in a single stroke.

Just because you're a HUUUUGE hentai nerd, who looks at the stuff every day of your life and think you know all aspects of it, and from your post it seems to be the case (just teasing about all that), it doesn't mean you're right. I don't believe you on this. I still believe that there are lots of japanese artists who draw hentai with furry characters. Ever seen Wordsworth? That's a good example of a hentai with furry characters.

I never said hentai and furry were the same. I said there's hentai, and there's a subset of hentai that contains furry subject matter.


And this whole sub section of the conversation. Wow, waaaay off topic and quite risque for these forums. I feel dirty.

Oh no! Wait, that can be taken as being furry.

ACK! even worse!

Wow, whoever made these smileys must be a big furry fan!

There we go. Nothing furry about that. Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated! AHHH! Now i'm a star trek nerd. I'd rather be a furry!

[Darkside55]

You know that obstinance is a bad trait, right? I mean, when somebody proves you wrong with logic and research, you're just being obstinate if you say, "Yeah sounds like you know what you're talking about, but I still choose not to believe you."

Your resistance only makes my penis harder.
(Lol Wordsworth quote lol)

I'd imagine that if you took my advice and talked to somebody over at the VCL, even if they said, "What I draw isn't hentai," you'd still be disinclined to believe them.
And I gave you a couple Japanese furry artists there, if you feel so inclined as to pick up Japanese and ask them. You're using the word as a blanket term, like I said. Since it's drawn you insist on calling it hentai.

I dunno, I was just trying to correct you, but if you'd rather not believe me I'm not gonna go any further with this. I just thought I'd try to show you the distinction because I remember when I was younger and I totally would've called furries/toons hentai. Ah, the naivety of youth.

Anyway, I'm just gonna leave the furry thread with this:

[Raziaar]

Originally Posted by Darkside55

You know that obstinance is a bad trait, right? I mean, when somebody proves you wrong with logic and research, you're just being obstinate if you say, "Yeah sounds like you know what you're talking about, but I still choose not to believe you."

You haven't proved me wrong. I don't believe you, because the evidence you have given me doesn't make me think i'm wrong. There is furry hentai, drawn by japanese hentai artists. Wordsworth is a good example of this, in movie form! You tell me, when you have seen that, with the cat girl, and the bat woman, and the PIG GUYS, THE HORSE GUYS, and all that sex crap in the thing, that its not furry.

Furries are fictional animal characters given human personalities and characteristics. Bugs bunny is a furry, those characters in that hentai cartoon are furries, by definition of fact. So by definition of fact, that hentai has elements of 'furry' activity in it!

Wordsworth is VERY much a japanese hentai, and you cannot deny that.

I dunno, I was just trying to correct you, but if you'd rather not believe me I'm not gonna go any further with this. I just thought I'd try to show you the distinction because I remember when I was younger and I totally would've called furries/toons hentai. Ah, the naivety of youth.

You do not bolster your claim by trying to push the thought that because I am young, I am naive. I may be young, but I'm also an adult almost ready to turn 20, and I am educated. Maybe not as much as you in the subect of 'hentai', because they didn't teach that in my school like they have taught you , but you don't have to be a master of the subject to know that what is in Wordsworth is hentai, and it has by definition, 'furry' characters in it, and so do other, professionally drawn and animated japanese hentai cartoons, by japanese hentai artists.

[Darkside55]

Actually the only thing I know of Wordsworth is that quote from a screencap. I don't watch hentai anime, any hentai anime. They're all stupid. They exist only to be poked fun at or to creep people out.

I will concede the fact that yes, Wordsworth is a hentai anime with anthropomorphic characters. Horse guys, pig guys, bat women would be considered furry. Catgirls, depending on the extent to which they look like a cat, may or may not be considered furry. That artist I mentioned earlier, Po-Ju, who happens to be one of my favorite artists, he did a picture of a catboy's head that progressively got more and more furry. At first, with just cat ears as well as human ears, that was 5%. Full cat ears was 10%, the boy started taking on more cat-like facial features until his head was that of a cat's, 100%. I wish I could find that picture right now (I might even have it on HD) but I don't know where it is. Generally anything 5% wouldn't be considered furry. Anyway that's not the point.

The point is that when you have something like hentai, which is very broad, you're bound to have genres bleed over into each other. I mean it's not even with hentai, that's with everything. We're on a gaming forum, so let's look at games. You've got FPS elements in an RPG, RTS elements in an FPS, fighting game elements in a puzzle game. Crossover happens. I never said it didn't. What I'm trying to point out here is that you seem to be confusing styles with genre.

Anime and manga are huge cultural influences in Japan. Everyone from very young children to adult businessmen read them, watch them, see the style. The style of anime is very prevalent in Japanese culture. So naturally, most drawings that come out of Japan are done in...an anime style! Therefore, when a Japanese artist does furry it looks distinctly Japanese. I think that's what's confusing you. Since some furry content has an anime look to it, you're equating it with hentai.

That doesn't make it hentai though. It's a different genre completely, and thus it's labeled something different. It's not called "furry hentai," it's called, "furry porn," or usually just "furry." Even the Japanese artists wouldn't call their furry work hentai (one of the main reasons being that that wouldn't even be the proper word in their language--they'd probably use "ero"). Don't get bogged down by someone's style. It's the genre that's important. Furry is a very large category in itself that includes many subsets of fetishes, the same with hentai. They're similar entities in that they're both large genres, but they aren't the same thing.

Originally Posted by Raziaar

Bugs bunny is a furry

Hahaha. That's great.

Ninja edit: Naivety of youth wasn't meant to bolster my claim, or as an insult. I was referring to both of us anyway. It's a joke; please don't take this conversation very seriously, I never said you weren't educated or anything of the sort. I'm not the type to do that unless the person I'm talking with is some kinda super idiot, or I'm just joking around.

You're a likable guy, Raziaar; please don't get any bad blood over things like that that I say. It's not a serious conversation. Cheers, again.

[Raziaar]

Are you denying bugs bunny is not a furry? He's used in the definition of it. lol

Therefore, when a Japanese artist does furry it looks distinctly Japanese. I think that's what's confusing you. Since some furry content has an anime look to it, you're equating it with hentai.

Do you not read what i'm saying? I'm not talking about other artists, or ametuer artists drawing furry characters and calling it hentai. I'm saying there are JAPANESE HENTAI ARTISTS who are creating and labelling their work as hentai, which contain furry characters within them, who engage in sexual activity! Wordsworth is one of the very popular japanese hentai's i've read, and thats why I use it as an example. As proof there are furry elements in Japanese hentai, and that's all i've been saying. It's called hentai. Not furry hentai, but I only called it that because it contains furry characters within it that confine to the definition of the label. It's a description of the fact that in some of the products, it contains it. Furry is not a genre, it is as you said... a style, and that style is evident in many hentai's.

The point is that when you have something like hentai, which is very broad, you're bound to have genres bleed over into each other. I mean it's not even with hentai, that's with everything.

You just proved my point here. This is what i've been saying, except the fact that furry isn't a genre, its a style. And that style has the potential to be prevailant in many styles of artwork, and it is in fact, used in quite a few hentai's, thus supporting my claim that there are hentai's with 'furries' in them.

Case closed <bangs his fist to his desk>

Where's my gavel? Damnit.

EDIT: i'm not offended or taking this too seriously. I'm just debating.

[Dasparov]

Originally Posted by Raziaar

Bugs bunny is a furry

Man disney are sick!

[Raziaar]

This is from wikipedia.

Famous Examples

Within the accepted usage of "furry", Roger Rabbit, Bugs Bunny, and Mickey Mouse are "funny animals": they are anthropomorphic, mostly behave like people, and can be considered to be the cartoon equivalents of character actors. In addition, Usagi Yojimbo, Omaha the Cat Dancer, the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (even though turtles don't have fur), and the characters of Father of the Pride are furries. They are generally more "realistic" in appearance than the funny animals and behave more like hybrids of humans and animals. They are sapient "people" as much as any well-limned fictional characters, but they aren't presented as animals for laughs. For example, the rabbit characters in Richard Adams' novel Watership Down are sentient and talk to each other, but their behaviour and psychology is very closely derived from that observed in real-life rabbits. Other furries are not so closely tied to their animal characteristics, but a degree of serious consideration is almost always given to this aspect of their characterization. Andre Norton's Breed to Come, Brian Jacques' Redwall series, and Steven Boyett's The Architect of Sleep are other examples of novels featuring furries, as is Paul Kidd's Fangs of K'aath, which has been cited as a source of inspiration for many people to create furry works.

EDIT: And to add further truth to the fact that Japanese culture is well aware of and acknowledge these creatures, I give to you...

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Enlarge
Usagi Yojimbo (うさぎ用心棒 or 兎用心棒, translation: "Rabbit Bodyguard") is a comic book series created by Stan Sakai. Set in the beginning of Edo period Japan (early 17th century), where humans are replaced by anthropomorphic animals, it features a rabbit ronin, Miyamoto Usagi, who wanders the land on a shogyusha (warrior's pilgrimage) occasionally selling his services as a bodyguard. The character of Usagi has been inspired by the famous swordsman Miyamoto Musashi.

The books consist of short stories, with underlying larger plotlines. The stories include many references to Japanese history and folklore, and sometimes include mythical creatures. The architecture, clothes, weapons, and other objects are drawn with faithfullness to the period's style. There are often stories whose purpose to illustrate various elements of Japanese arts and crafts, such as the fashioning of kites, swords, and pottery.

Usagi first appeared in the anthology Albedo Anthropomorphics, and later in the Fantagraphics Books anthropomorphic anthology Critters, before appearing in his own series. The Usagi Yojimbo series has been published by three different companies. The first publisher was Fantagraphics (volume one; 38 regular issues, plus one Summer Special and four Color Specials), the second was Mirage Comics (volume two; 16 issues), and the third is Dark Horse Comics, at which Usagi Yojimbo is still being published (as volume three).

Usagi has also appeared several times in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (the comic, the animated series, and the toy line), and the Turtles have appeared in the Usagi Yojimbo series as well.

[Tr0n]

Wtf?

Why you guys debating whats furry and whats not? lol Who cares?!?!

[Dasparov]

Originally Posted by Bodacious

Hahahaha

Cheers for the link, i always knew i wasn't alone

[Darkside55]

Motion to reopen the case on grounds that the judge does not know what he's talking about, and cannot even find his gavel.

You keep saying there are Japanese artists calling their work hentai, despite the fact I've repeatedly said that's the wrong word, despite the fact that you've provided one instance when I have provided five, and I can provide SEVERAL more artists who wouldn't label their furry stuff hentai. There aren't "furry elements" in Japanese hentai; there's crossover. Having furry elements would mean something of the genre was reflected in hentai. It isn't.

Alright, I'll give you another example since you're so hung up about Japanese artists doing furry work. Juubaori Mashumaro (pen name which means, "man who is a marshmellow"), who may possibly be my favorite artist of all time, did an incredible work called "Alice 1st," and the continuation, "Alice 2nd." It was based off Alice in Wonderland, and therefore had female versions of the white rabbit (Usa-chan) and the Cheshire Cat (Chesya).
Remember what I said earlier about "furry percentages"? Usa-chan was 10%, so she wouldn't have been considered an anthropomorphic character. Chesya, on the other hand, would have been maybe 75-85%, definately anthropomorphic. Now, do you think Juubaori considered this furry or hentai?

Despite the percent to which Chesya was catlike, she would not have been considered furry. She's regarded as a straight-up H character, anthropomorphism not withstanding.

This is because, like I said, furry is not a style. Anthropomorphic characters of themselves are not furries because they can stand upright and talk. Bugs Bunny has been in erotic CONTENT (Biohazard's artwork makes me laugh), but he's not a furry in actuality. In fact, he's a toon! That's a genre too, grouped together with parody art based off of Western cartoons and comic books. It's a very small genre though because it only deals specifically with that subject, and any sub-fetishes that people draw out of it are at their own whim.

A genre is defined as a category that encompasses a particular content. The style that content is drawn in is irrelevant in the face of the content itself. I could paint an apple orange, but it still wouldn't be an orange.

Hentai is a genre. You've got your straight hentai, ecchi, yuri, yaoi, loli, shota, futa, bondage, guro, tentacles, a lot of other weird fetishes, lots of stuff.

Furry is a genre. You've got your straight furry, lesbian/gay furry, macro, vore, herm, unbirthing...lots of other stuff.

BTW, Dasparov, Bugs Bunny is Warner Brothers, not Disney.

[Raziaar]

Originally Posted by Tr0n

Wtf?

Why you guys debating whats furry and whats not? lol Who cares?!?!

I like debating. Heh. Maybe this debate should go in the 'stupidest debates you've ever had' thread that I created a while back


EDIT: Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. We've drifted way far off topic.

[Darkside55]

The sad thing is this probably wouldn't be the stupidest debate I've ever had. The things that can be debated in my clan's IRC channel can be staggeringly useless, pointless, and whoever's opinion comes out on top will never benefit man in any way.

[Dasparov]

Originally Posted by Darkside55

Motion to reopen the case on grounds that the judge does not know what he's talking about, and cannot even find his gavel.

You keep saying there are Japanese artists calling their work hentai, despite the fact I've repeatedly said that's the wrong word, despite the fact that you've provided one instance when I have provided five, and I can provide SEVERAL more artists who wouldn't label their furry stuff hentai. There aren't "furry elements" in Japanese hentai; there's crossover. Having furry elements would mean something of the genre was reflected in hentai. It isn't.

Alright, I'll give you another example since you're so hung up about Japanese artists doing furry work. Juubaori Mashumaro (pen name which means, "man who is a marshmellow"), who may possibly be my favorite artist of all time, did an incredible work called "Alice 1st," and the continuation, "Alice 2nd." It was based off Alice in Wonderland, and therefore had female versions of the white rabbit (Usa-chan) and the Cheshire Cat (Chesya).
Remember what I said earlier about "furry percentages"? Usa-chan was 10%, so she wouldn't have been considered an anthropomorphic character. Chesya, on the other hand, would have been maybe 75-85%, definately anthropomorphic. Now, do you think Juubaori considered this furry or hentai?

Despite the percent to which Chesya was catlike, she would not have been considered furry. She's regarded as a straight-up H character, anthropomorphism not withstanding.

This is because, like I said, furry is not a style. Anthropomorphic characters of themselves are not furries because they can stand upright and talk. Bugs Bunny has been in erotic CONTENT (Biohazard's artwork makes me laugh), but he's not a furry in actuality. In fact, he's a toon! That's a genre too, grouped together with parody art based off of Western cartoons and comic books. It's a very small genre though because it only deals specifically with that subject, and any sub-fetishes that people draw out of it are at their own whim.

A genre is defined as a category that encompasses a particular content. The style that content is drawn in is irrelevant in the face of the content itself. I could paint an apple orange, but it still wouldn't be an orange.

Hentai is a genre. You've got your straight hentai, ecchi, yuri, yaoi, loli, shota, futa, bondage, guro, tentacles, a lot of other weird fetishes, lots of stuff.

Furry is a genre. You've got your straight furry, lesbian/gay furry, macro, vore, herm, unbirthing...lots of other stuff.

You know your stuff!

Originally Posted by Darkside55

BTW, Dasparov, Bugs Bunny is Warner Brothers, not Disney.

I knew that, i was just testing you