Gordon Freeman is a bumbling idiot

[Darkside55]

Gordon Freeman gets a lot of praise. A humble MIT-grad with aspirations of working on teleport technology for the good of mankind, he's saved the world twice and been hailed as an almost messianic figure in the minds of the oppressed. But in reality, Gordon Freeman is a bumbling idiot.

Let me present the case against Gordon Freeman. He is a naive, easily-manipulated pawn who doesn't consider his actions and acts on what seems like impulse and some other sort of half-assed judgement, whether it be his "feelings" or possibly some "moral code." And while he means well, he inevitably ends up screwing it up for all of us.

I'll try and start from the beginning, during his time at Black Mesa. Despite his doctorate, Gordon Freeman was effectively a glorified cart-pusher. The cart carrying the sample that he would end up pushing into the anti-mass spectrometer is what caused the resonance cascade in the first place, and while he can hardly be blamed for doing his job, he still pushed the cart which would tear a rift between dimensions.

Freeman then journeyed across the Black Mesa complex to reach the Lambda Core, because, y'know, some random scientist told him to and he was wearing the HEV suit and all. When he arrives, he's instructed to kill whatever's keeping the portals open on the other side. He's taking his orders from another random scientist...and a security guard. Two people who have absolutely no idea what the hell is possibly going on over there except for the fact that there's "something big" over there and it's "keeping the portals open." But Freeman will listen to anybody, so he goes and does what he's told. He kills the Nihilanth, hoping it will stop the portal storm. Well, good job, Freeman. While you may have succeeded in killing the being controlling the portals, you've also unleashed its energy, intensifying and randomizing the portal storms on earth, given control of the border world over to some unknown suit, and attracted the attention of an all-consuming alien horde.

Flash forward to ten years in the future. Gordon Freeman arrives in City 17, with no clear purpose of what to do, but he sees some citizens being oppressed and he doesn't like it one bit. So he decides to make it his mission to fight the good fight. Again, he certainly means well, but let's have a look at what he accomplished:

- Manages to put the Combine citadel on full alert, causing a city-wide manhunt that kills numerous rebels and unaffiliated civilians

- Gets Dr. Eli Vance and his daughter captured

- Fails to save Laszlo

- Leads hero-struck resistance members to their deaths

- (Presumably) Kills the one man who could've bartered for humanity's salvation

- Blows up the citadel

Those last two deserve some further examination. All throughout his campaign, Gordon Freeman has been opposing Dr. Breen because he works for the Combine. Far be it for Freeman to actually gather facts about what happened instead of just listening to his mentors say, "Grr, that Dr. Breen! He works for the Combine and he's bad news!" This is a man who saved our entire species from extinction by an alien race who decimated our ENTIRE FORCES in SEVEN HOURS. Regardless of what you might think of Dr. Breen, we managed to live at least ten more years because of him. But Gordon Freeman apparently sees things in black-and-white, so because Dr. Breen works for the Combine, he must be eliminated.

And what an elimination it was. To kill one man, Gordon Freeman brings down an entire citadel in the middle of a large urban area, an act that directly leads to Aftermath's flight from City 17. Dr. Breen even urged Freeman to listen to reason, that bringing down the citadel will kill all the people below, but did Freeman care? No. He had to kill the baddie, again, no matter the cost. And now the reactor's about to go critical. Tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of people will be forced to flee the city into the wilderness where Xenian beasts live; the city's forcefields are already coming down and antlions are invading. Freeman's taken City 17's populace out of the frying pan and thrown them into the fire, at the behest of some scientists, a security guard, a love interest, and his own moral compass. But I'm sure he meant well.

[Sam]

I think the numerous times Breen tries to outright kill Freeman outweigh the 30-second period of "reasoning" with him. Plus, he's a tosser :P

The resistance members would've died a lot more had Freeman not been there. There's nothing you can actually do to save Lazo, even if you kill all the antlions before they hurt him he still dies.

Personally, I'd rather die than be horribly, painfully lobotomised and forced into slavery, which in constant pain, until I die from whatever chemicals they use to keep me barely alive.

I agree with you that Freeman doesn't really know what he's doing, but he's very capable at killing the bad guys. What you have to consider is what would've happened had Freeman not stopped Nihilanth (plenty of people getting slaughtered then subjugated until the combine show up anyway) or had not 'started' the rebellion and then put the citadel into meltdown (slavery and oppression until the earth's resources are gone and they leave us to all die).

[15357]

Freeman is also evil. He killed directly or indirectly hundreds of police officers that were only doing their job. And trying to get more rations.

[UltimaApocalypse]

Okay, all citizens immediately became rebels at the start of the uprising(which would have eventually happened). So a lot of those citizens would have died anyway. I bet a lot of them would die for Gordon Freeman if you give them the chance, too. Breen really only saved them at first, the "I can still deliver Earth" line proves it.

As for the Alyx/Eli being captured: "Although we could have taken them at any time...." -Breen

Killing Nihilanth may have been a good thing in a way. I "think" he was building up a huge ass army to conquer Earth(from seeing the Half Life 1 G-Man refusal ending).

He never blew up the Citadel. It's in meltdown.

Laszlo's death was tragic, yes. But there was nothing you could have done about it. However his rebel friend should have died with him because he said Laszlo was the greatest mind of his generation when it was truly Gordon Freeman.

[Darkside55]

I think the numerous times Breen tries to outright kill Freeman outweigh the 30-second period of "reasoning" with him.But in this case, even though Dr. Breen is trying to save his own hide, he did warn Freeman about what would happen to the citizens. If nothing else, Freeman should've thought about that instead of just acting impulsively.
Plus, he's a tosser :pLies! Dr. Breen is a great man! :laugh:
There's nothing you can actually do to save Lazo, even if you kill all the antlions before they hurt him he still dies.
Laszlo's death was tragic, yes. But there was nothing you could have done about it. However his rebel friend should have died with him because he said Laszlo was the greatest mind of his generation when it was truly Gordon Freeman.I'm sure Freeman could've done something, he just didn't. Laszlo probably was the greatest mind of his generation, and Dr. Freeman couldn't stand to have anyone else competing with him pushing carts and flipping switches.
Killing Nihilanth was a good thingMost unfortunately I have to agree, because there's really nothing else Freeman could've done. However, fighting Nihilanth's army would've been a cakewalk for Earth compared to fighting the Combine, and I'm going to assume that had Freeman NOT killed Nith, and Nith HAD invaded and we repulsed him, he would've closed down the portals and decided not to mess with us. That would have, perhaps, averted the Combine disaster.
Freeman is also evil. He killed directly or indirectly hundreds of police officers that were only doing their job. And trying to get more rations.And don't forget the simulated procreation bonuses they received for further upgrades and memory wipes. Freeman's a ____-blocker.
He never blew up the Citadel. It's in meltdown.When it melts down, it will go boom. It has simply yet to go boom, but it will, and Freeman was the one what done it.
As for the Alyx/Eli being captured: "Although we could have taken them at any time...." -BreenI argued against this in another thread (http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=98409) at great length, but basically Breen's a liar and was trying to make it sound like he could've taken them at any time when he couldn't. Mossman revealed the location of BME to Dr. Breen upon Gordon Freeman's arrival.

Somebody has to stop Freeman! Who knows what he'll do in Aftermath? He'll be the death of us all!

[UltimaApocalypse]

In Aftermath, he will summon up the strength to kill G-Man thus blowing up the universe.

[Sloth]

Well, unless you get to see different line of things Gordon is our bumbling idiot, and anything that we have to do through him is the only viewpoint we can see.

[Zoetrap]

I think it should be pointed out that Freeman didn't put the citadel on full alert. Neither was he the one responsible for the capturing of Eli.

The teleport incident was the reason for putting the citadel on full alert. Those nasty headcrabs...

And Eli probably wouldn't have been captured if Mossman wouldn't have reported the BME location to Breen.

All in all many of the "incidents" are not directly Gordon's fault, but he is clearly involved in them.

But I don't know why everyone seems so obsessed with that Laszlo guy. Have I missed something? He might have been the greatest mind of his generation, but does that mean he has to be involved in Cart pushing and switch flipping?

[Darkside55]

Well, unless you get to see different line of things Gordon is our bumbling idiot, and anything that we have to do through him is the only viewpoint we can see.We are hopelessly forced to steer Freeman through acts that lead to disasterous results, and no matter how much we scream at the screen, we can only watch and move forward.

Hesuses, while technically it was Lamarr who caused the trouble with the teleporter, it was Freeman's appearance that put the citadel on alert. I doubt if it were anyone else Breen would've gone to FULL alert. Besides, we see Lamarr step out of the teleport easily enough; maybe Freeman just felt like waiting inside and seeing where he ended up.

You ever notice how, when Gordon Freeman gets around machinery, it messes up, even if it's not his fault directly? Gordon Freeman is bad luck with teleporters. He ought to find a new career path.

With Eli, he wouldn't have been captured if Mossman hadn't told Breen. Mossman wouldn't have told him if Gordon Freeman hadn't arrived. Thus, Gordon Freeman was responsible for Eli's capture. Everyone in the resistance (even Dr. Vance's own daughter!) is quick to turn a blind eye to that fact, however.

But I don't know why everyone seems so obsessed with that Laszlo guy. Have I missed something? He might have been the greatest mind of his generation, but does that mean he has to be involved in Cart pushing and switch flipping?I bet Laszlo could've negotiated with Breen and the Combine, and come to a peaceful solution to ensure the fate of mankind. And then he had to die...while Gordon Freeman just watched. :hmph:

[ríomhaire]

He killed Nihilanth save Earth. He had no idea that it would create the portal storms.

[Polaris]

Gordon is also poor dope....
He must be dependent on morphine injections from HEV suit...

[Samon]

Yes, trouble does tend to follow in his wake...

However, the choices Gordon makes are really no better than the other options that lay before him, he's merely acting on instinct. The latter of course, Breen opposes.

Well yeah, Breen did manage to strike a bargain with a massive, planet/species consuming alien race that almost wiped us out - but at what cost? A fate worse than death? Slavery, genocide, becoming stalkers...the latter of which is the ultimate fate for the entire species. Hey kudos Breen, you might have won yourself a spacious office atop the Citadel with free reign to study whatever you may like, but its not the same for the rest of us. Breen didn't want to save humanity; he used humanity as a bargaining chip to further his own knowledge and greed.

Though I agree - Gordon’s latest action is, ultimately his worst. He single-handedly ripped an absolutely massive reactor to shreds, a reactor containing god knows what unfounded particles...and Gordon is about to unleash it upon City 17. Breen did warn him, but in the end Gordon had only two choices:

Allow Breen to escape with Eli's portal technology, and aid in the extinction and augmentation of countless more planets and races.

Or, stop Breen, and sacrifice the lives of the citizens of City 17.

Gordon can at least prevent the latter, with aiding in the evacuation.

Besides, Gordon didn't kill Breen, Breen is very much alive. Have a look down from the balcony, and you'll see him sitting within his little bubble. Breen, had he escaped, would have left humanity to rot and fester. Now he's stuck on Earth, within an increasingly fragile Citadel, surrounded by very pissed off rebels. Where’s Breen gonna run? To another city? Into the wasteland?

Take that Breen I say.

[Sam]

Breen doesn't care what happens to anyone who isn't him. The reason he finally tries to bargain with you, is because he will gain more favour with the combine if he stops your rampage. He breaks his promise to Mossman once he gets the knowledge of how to build a working teleporter. He's only ever civil to you when he wants something; he's going to send Eli and Alyx to, probably, die a slow and painful death when they refuse to help him. All through his "stop, think of the people" speech to you, he's still sending troops to have you killed.

In short, he's a tosser.

[lastHOPE_lambda]

I say follow Freeman to the death!!!!!!
First off who wants to live the rest of there life having no memory of who or what they once were, stuck some where inbetween life and death, in constant pain. Basically becoming striped of your soul.
Thankyou very much but I think I'd rather die at the side of Gordon Freeman fighting the good fight. Sure Freeman screws up but hes human, of coarse hes gonna screw up! Tell me you guys could have done better if you had been in that sitution.
And besides you have to remember the fact that we our controlling Freeman. So whos to say if Freeman actually had his own will (and not ours) maybe he could do some great amazing genius thing and save all our a$$e$. But we'll never know since we always cotroll Freeman.
This isn't really a viable reason but I'll say it anyways. The G-man seems pleased with Gordon's work and I generally trust the G-man. If an all powerful being like G-man trusts Freeman to do the right things, then I say its pretty safe to say Freeman is doing the right thing.

[Que-Ever]

I bet Laszlo could've negotiated with Breen and the Combine, and come to a peaceful solution to ensure the fate of mankind. And then he had to die...while Gordon Freeman just watched. :hmph:
I tried to kill the antlions everytime :(

btw, you're making some awesome points.

[losermeetsworld]

When it melts down, it will go boom. It has simply yet to go boom, but it will, and Freeman was the one what done it.



I honestly don't think the Citandel was destroyed. It's said ingame that Dr. Breen's office was at the very top of the Citandel (wait wait, if it's at the top, and the pod he rises in goes up for 4-5 floors... Plot hole?) and you SEE the reactor is at the top, it's very possible that the reactor just blew off the top 1/4 or so, especially when you think, the Combine is born and bred for war, and they conqured Earth in 7 hours... Their headquarters is going to be one tough mother to bring down.

[Samon]

The Citadel is not destroyed, its in meltdown - the entire place is going to go up very, very soon, thus the city 17 evacuation.
You've just dismantled a very dangerous, very complex reactor...I honestly doubt the Citadel will be able to hold.

[Llama]

Hey, its a ridiculously powerful Dark Fusion reactor, what do you expect? :E

[Sam]

I honestly don't think the Citandel was destroyed. It's said ingame that Dr. Breen's office was at the very top of the Citandel (wait wait, if it's at the top, and the pod he rises in goes up for 4-5 floors... Plot hole?) and you SEE the reactor is at the top, it's very possible that the reactor just blew off the top 1/4 or so, especially when you think, the Combine is born and bred for war, and they conqured Earth in 7 hours... Their headquarters is going to be one tough mother to bring down.

Actually Breen's office is at the top, when you finally shoot the parts of the top of the reactor, you're standing just outside the bit you see Breen talking about not being able to survive in the environment on the other side of the portal. When you blow it up, the window shatters and Alyx jumps through. (Sorry to nitpick)

BTW, Breen's a tosser.

[lastHOPE_lambda]

whats a tosser?

[AJ Rimmer]

whats a tosser?
Means he's a crackpot. A crank. A cuckoo, a demoniac, ding-a-ling, flake, freak, fruitcake, goof, harebrain, kook, lamebrain, loon, loony, madman, maniac, neurotic, ninny, nut, nutcase, paranoid, psycho, scatterbrain, schizo, screwball, section 8, sicko, whacko, yo-yo

[lastHOPE_lambda]

Cool I didn't know there were so many words for insane.
lol section 8

[AJ Rimmer]

Cool I didn't know there were so many words for insane.
lol section 8
I know.
Dear god how I love thesaurus.com!

[Darkside55]

He killed Nihilanth save Earth. He had no idea that it would create the portal storms.I would assume that someone with a doctorate in theoretical physics working in a teleportation laboratory would at least have the knowledge that when you blow up something containing that much energy, the energy must go somewhere. When I first blew up the Nihilanth and watched him writhe in pain, electricity flowing out of him, my first thought was, "OH SHI--, this will not be good," rather than, "Yay I defeated the badguy!"

On Breen, which everyone seems to bring up:

Yes, Breen is a selfish, cold, manipulative figurehead who cares for nothing but personal and scientific advancement. In the long run, he's doomed humanity to a fate worse than death, but in the short run at least people are alive. Oppressed, downtrodden, living in substandard conditions, but they are ALIVE. People bring up the point that Gordon Freeman had only so many options before him (I'll address that in a moment), can't the same be said of Dr. Breen? What other options were available when the Combine came? Their objective was not to subjugate us. Their objective was to annihilate our species and steal our resources. Breen prevented that from happening; he saved humanity and eeked out what little time we have left as un-Combinified humans, all personal gain from the negotiation aside....in the end Gordon had only two choices:

Allow Breen to escape with Eli's portal technology, and aid in the extinction and augmentation of countless more planets and races.

Or, stop Breen, and sacrifice the lives of the citizens of City 17.

Gordon can at least prevent the latter, with aiding in the evacuation.
Breen would hardly have been an issue, stuck on a planet that cannot support organic life, far removed from our universe. Breen would have been left there to rot; the Combine care nothing for him. He would have never been seen in any of the universal union's future conquests. Also, a side note: I believe he's dead. Granted, he's still in the bubble at the end of the game, but I believe that to be more of an in-game limitation or oversight than a story clue. It's likely Valve didn't expect anyone to peer over the edge and zoom in to make sure the guy lived through the fall, so they left it be.

Now, Freeman, his options are also limited, but he always seems to take the more direct approach: blasting whatever gets in his way to reach whatever objective he has in his head at the time. Were he not so scientifically-minded, he might've been the perfect soldier, a man with unlikely leadership and survival skills who follows whatever orders his superiors bestow upon him.

As lastHOPE said, the G-man trusts Gordon Freeman to do the "right thing." However, what Gordon does isn't necessarily the right thing, it's simply the G-man's desired result. The G-man trusts Gordon Freeman to do what he wants him to do. Think about it: you have a man who's very shadow is trouble and catastrophe, a man who seemingly cannot die, is infinitely resourceful, and is very easily manipulated. You put an objective before him and he'll bungle his way through it, just like the G-man expects. That's why he never bothers giving Freeman any explicit orders.
I tried to kill the antlions everytime :(

btw, you're making some awesome points.
Gordon simply wouldn't allow him to be saved. Don't blame yourself. And hey, thanks for the compliment. :)

Also, I thought tosser meant something COMPLETELY different. Or at least, the version of it I'm thinking of is. Heh, and section 8's a housing thing for low-income families. I was on that once when I was much, much younger. Perhaps that's why I stick up for Breen, eh? :p

[Sam]

Also, I thought tosser meant something COMPLETELY different.

So did I :bonce:

[Darkside55]

I think we're thinking of the not-so-polite version, you and I.

Also, here's another bit of slang I'm going to introduce that I thought of when I wrote about Breen being locked away on some planet, never to be seen or heard from again. I'm gonna call that "Getting the Adrian Shepherd."

[Samon]

Breen would hardly have been an issue, stuck on a planet that cannot support organic life, far removed from our universe. Breen would have been left there to rot; the Combine care nothing for him. He would have never been seen in any of the universal union's future conquests. Also, a side note: I believe he's dead. Granted, he's still in the bubble at the end of the game, but I believe that to be more of an in-game limitation or oversight than a story clue. It's likely Valve didn't expect anyone to peer over the edge and zoom in to make sure the guy lived through the fall, so they left it be.



Breen would have been a massive issue. He was escaping with Eli's local teleportation technology - he would have succeeded in giving the Combine a far greater edge, its Breen’s bargaining chip. They want that technology, and Breen’s going to give it to them.
The Combines teleportation technology is not so advanced that they can go from one small point to another. Its like, universe to universe.

I actually emailed Marc Laidlaw on the subject of Breen, and he said that they left all character fates uncertain, and not decide to say 'well, yes he is dead.' Besides, Breen hardly fell, his bubble simply drifted.

[AJ Rimmer]

So did I :bonce:
You dare doubt the thesaurus?

[losermeetsworld]

Hmmm.... Perhaps with all the millions of other beings in the Citandel, at least ONE of them would have known how to override a meltdown? Or perhaps there is some way to contain it...


EDIT: Hold on, wait, is it just me or there is something in the back of my brain telling me I've seen an AM screenie with a Citandel in it? Maybe it DID survive, or maybe the Combine mass produce them, like the US army mass produces mobile field HQs

[Samon]

Yes, the Citadel is in Aftermath. The first part of the Aftermath has you escaping the Citadel, because the Citadel is in meltdown. You have disabled the reactor, and its heavily damaged. You are escaping City 17 before it goes up in flames and takes city 17 with it. You cannot override the meltdown, it doesn't work like that. The explosion at the end of HL2 was very minimal.

The Combine don't mass produce them. They need to send them through very large portals to get them places.

[AJ Rimmer]

Hmmm.... Perhaps with all the millions of other beings in the Citandel, at least ONE of them would have known how to override a meltdown? Or perhaps there is some way to contain it...


EDIT: Hold on, wait, is it just me or there is something in the back of my brain telling me I've seen an AM screenie with a Citandel in it? Maybe it DID survive, or maybe the Combine mass produce them, like the US army mass produces mobile field HQs
The citadel is still standing in AM, it just won't be standing for much longer.

Damn you Samon! Damn you!!!

[Flyingdebris]

Well put darkside, i bet that if gordon was set up by the gman to help the combine he would still think he would be doing the right thing in killing the rebels, its all in the manner in which the g-man manipulates things. Cause as we all know, gordon is an easily manipulated fool.

[bigburpco]

In Aftermath, he will summon up the strength to kill G-Man thus blowing up the universe.

It's a goverment conspiracy! D:

[Rizzo]

hmm i dont realy remember that lazlo guy, when in in one of the antlions chapters do you see him and where? Is it that guy who stands on the rock? In that case i sent a granade on him when the anlions attacked and gave it no more thought. :P

[Laivasse]

Have to agree with a lot of what you're saying Darkside, even if you're saying it kind of tongue-in-cheek. The way I see it Gordon is a victim of circumstance, but he rarely acts in a way that is guaranteed to improve circumstances.

Gordon simply goes along with his basest gut instinct, seemingly without cottoning onto the fact that that is exactly what Gman has been counting on Gordon to do since Black Mesa. Gordon makes no attempt to try and pursue Gman, barely chasing him more than a few feet each time he appears, and so he lets slip any opportunity to get to the bottom of what cause it is that he's really fighting for.

While you could say that Gordon is fundamentally well-meaning and that it's hard to see what you could do differently in his place, he's also content to sit back and be a pawn of disruption and destruction for what is obviously a very sinister figure. Every time Gordon experiences triumph it seems to bring an even bigger disaster waiting in the wings... Maybe how much of a bumbling idiot Gordon is depends on how conscientious he feels about the bad consequences which arise from his actions.

[Jintor]

I doubt he is bumbling, because he does what he means to do: Kill things. Flick switches. Save humanity (arguable).

Idiot, maybe. But, black and white vision in a black and white world is not a negative.

[Laivasse]

black and white vision in a black and white world is not a negative.

Ah but if we pretend the world of HL2 weren't so black and white...

[Jintor]

You said pretend!

*cackles gleefully*

[Rizzo]

Why did no one answer? Whos lazlo or what ever his name is?

[Sulkdodds]

That guy from GTA3 Chatterbox radio.

Gordon is more of a victim than a crazy nutjob moron George Bush (thinks what he is doing is right but couldn't be more wrong).

[lastHOPE_lambda]

Gordon bashers.
He really isn't an idiot cause an idiot couldn't cause the amazing trouble he always seems to cause. I mean gordon is like frickin unstopable. He does what he wants and gets it done, and has anyone thought that gordon, maybe just maybe isn't out there to do what is best for humanity but doing what is best for him. If thats true then hes a frickin genuis for sure!
I mean look he got rid of lazlo, made himself in to a messaianic figure, is consdered a hero amung the people....and so on and so on.

[15357]

That guy from GTA3 Chatterbox radio.

Gordon is more of a victim than a crazy nutjob moron George Bush (thinks what he is doing is right but couldn't be more wrong).

Nooo, he is an evil dissidant, threatening the continued prosperity and survival of the entire human race!

[Sulkdodds]

Draining the seas, amnesia-water, reproduction suppression, brutal beatings, resource-stripping, stalkerisation and total oppression = prosperity? D:

[15357]

Draining the seas, amnesia-water, reproduction suppression, brutal beatings, resource-stripping, stalkerisation and total oppression = prosperity? D:

Theres always some growing pains, you know. :E

[Samon]

Well put darkside, i bet that if gordon was set up by the gman to help the combine he would still think he would be doing the right thing in killing the rebels, its all in the manner in which the g-man manipulates things.

It is doubtful Gordon would go that far, infact, no, he wouldn't. Gman purposely places Gordon in a situation where he is surrounded by familiar faces, and therefore feels the need to fight alongside them.
Gman couldn't evoke that response from the Combine.

[Rizzo]

But wtf! GTA3? yeah right, and a evil dissidant? When the hell do you meet this lazlo guy and let him get chopped by antlions?

[Loke]

When the hell do you meet this lazlo guy and let him get chopped by antlions?

After the fight at the lighthouse in the 'Sandtraps'-chapter. You come across Laszlo and his friend that shout "Hey you stay on the rocks! Do not step on the sand! It'll make the Antlions crazy!" (can't remember exactly but something along those lines).

[Rizzo]

Ok, now i know. And that guy dies, i lobed a granede at him. Great.

[Samon]

Yeah, because that'd hurt him anyway...

[Rizzo]

No... But he was surounded by antlions and when i blow it up... he flew away.
It was my faoult.

[Digamma]

:O :O :O
You blew up Lazlo? You horrible person! He was the finest mind of his generation!!! lol j/k :)

[TheGMan.]

- Manages to put the Combine citadel on full alert, causing a city-wide manhunt that kills numerous rebels and unaffiliated civilians

- Gets Dr. Eli Vance and his daughter captured

- Fails to save Laszlo

- Leads hero-struck resistance members to their deaths

- (Presumably) Kills the one man who could've bartered for humanity's salvation

- Blows up the citadel

Seperate reality from video games, for gods sake. It's not like he wanted to, in HL1 it was either death or work for the G-Man... hmmm. It's not like you can make Gordon Freeman be a combine soldier, or just kill himself (and end the game). Jesus Christ.


Also, Doctor Mossman got Dr. Eli Vance and his daughter caught, not Gordon Freeman


Let myself a big LOL for lack of humour.

[Jintor]

Look out for sarcasm, G-man!

[Darkside55]

Seperate reality from video games, for gods sake. It's not like he wanted to, in HL1 it was either death or work for the G-Man... hmmm. It's not like you can make Gordon Freeman be a combine soldier, or just kill himself (and end the game). Jesus Christ.Grow a sense of humor, for God's sake. I really hate when people say, "separate games from reality." Listen, no one here believes the games are real. No one's looking out their windows expecting to see a citadel, no one's checking over their shoulders every paragraph to make sure a headcrab's sneaking up on them, and no one's wearing a tinfoil hat because they think the G-man can hear their thoughts. What, were you under the assumption that I thought Gordon was a living being and is out there causing disaster? You're the one who deserves the big LOL if so.

Listen, you seem to be a relatively new poster here so I'm going to let you in on some helpful advice. First of all, you're in Singleplayer Mythology. This is a place where we discuss everything from Half-Life's characters to weaponry, to headcrab anatomy and bullsquid mating rituals. It can be even worse in rumors and speculation, where people try to make actual sense of things like teleporter technology and just what Xen's atmosphere is made of. If you don't want to hear people discussing a game world as if it were plausible, these are definately NOT the forums you should be visiting. As I said though, no one's believing any of this stuff is real, it's just a fanbase that's interested in the game's universe and some people want to flesh it out and try to make working sense of it all. That's how ALL fanbases for sci-fi or fantasy or...what-have-you genres are. If you don't like it, skip over it, simple as that. As for me, I'm going to continue to poke some lighthearted (but factual!) fun at Half-Life's protagonist.
Also, Doctor Mossman got Dr. Eli Vance and his daughter caught, not Gordon Freeman
Did you happen to read this post (http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1756290&postcount=5) in the thread where I stated very clearly how Gordon Freeman was responsible (http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1756290&postcount=5), and also linked (http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=98409) to another thread (http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=98409) that talks in-depth about how it was Gordon Freeman's (http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=98409) fault? Go back and read it again (http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=98409).

And don't dis Laszlo. Laszlo > you.

While you could say that Gordon is fundamentally well-meaning and that it's hard to see what you could do differently in his place, he's also content to sit back and be a pawn of disruption and destruction for what is obviously a very sinister figure. Every time Gordon experiences triumph it seems to bring an even bigger disaster waiting in the wings... Maybe how much of a bumbling idiot Gordon is depends on how conscientious he feels about the bad consequences which arise from his actions.The problem is that I think he DOES feel compelled to repent for his past actions, which leads to even worse situations. Gordon's initial mistake, pushing the sample into the anti-mass spectrometer, was not really his fault. And yet, he was compelled by his conscience to fix the problem by killing the Nihilanth, which lead to the BIGGER problem of the Combine. Upon arriving in City 17, he sees what his actions have done, and with only a little persuasion from his colleagues he sets out to atone for putting humanity in this state. But to do that...he decides the best thing to do is blow up the citadel, which now leads to the necessary evacuation of City 17. It's a vicious cycle. I think his first course of business should be to STOP KILLING THE END BOSS. He can work on the rest from there.

It is doubtful Gordon would go that far, infact, no, he wouldn't. Gman purposely places Gordon in a situation where he is surrounded by familiar faces, and therefore feels the need to fight alongside them.
Gman couldn't evoke that response from the Combine.While I'm inclined to agree with you, it's possible that if the G-man were to put him into City 17 on the Combine's side and NOT arrange for him to meet up with his friends (so that he wouldn't even know they were in City 17), he might've gotten Gordon to work for the Combine. As impressionable as Gordon is, and with his aforementioned want to fix his mistakes and help humanity, it'd just be a matter of appealing to him that the Combine is the right way to go. I can see it happening quite easily, actually.

[lastHOPE_lambda]

Common now you guys don't really think gordon is that stupid do you!? The minute Gordon saw a citizen being beaten he would have gone against the combine. I mean there is no way I could see gordon turning a blind eye to the beatings, killings, tourturing, and so on.
But then again maybe Gordon has no will. Maybe he was completely brocken after the events of hl. Now he wonders the earth for breif time spans too disturbed to talk or even think for himself, following the whims of the G-Man and killing just to cover the imense pain he has bottled up inside himself. Personally I don't belive this at all but just putting it out there.

[Darkside55]

You keep Gordon away from that stuff and he'll work for the Combine. Make it so that he never saw the "real" streets of City 17, put him away somewhere in the citadel or Nova Prospekt to work on the teleporter, and he'd do it.

[UltimaApocalypse]

">http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d21/UltimaApocalypse/WelcomeToHell.jpg (http://www.halflife2.net/forums/%3Cimg%20src=)

[_Z_Ryuken]

When I went through HL2, and more recently HL1, I had no idea what was going on so I just listened to what all the characters said. I thought I would do good by following the advice of whom appeared to be my allies.

I think it's the same for Gordon. He's is acting on the will of the people.

[Flyingdebris]

The minute Gordon saw a citizen being beaten he would have gone against the combine. I mean there is no way I could see gordon turning a blind eye to the beatings, killings, tourturing, and so on.

Do you take up a crowbar against the entire government the second a cop beats a guy?

For all we know the first guy we see beaten in hl2 may have been provoking the metro.

You know, having just read a whole bunch of warhammer 40k novels i learned something interesting. To survive in a galaxy full of demons, aliens, mutants, and thirsting gods, humanity's Imperium pretty much has to become nasty and oppressive just to survive. Any sort of weakness or leeway on humanity's part almost instantly gets exploited and entire planets die.

It seems like thats the case in hl2. In order to survive, humanity's government has had to become nasty and oppressive in order to survive. So yeah Gordon won a short sighted victory against the those working for the combine. But what happens when the combine tire of these upstart humans? they probably won't even bother trying to enslave us the second time around.

[Darkside55]

It seems like thats the case in hl2. In order to survive, humanity's government has had to become nasty and oppressive in order to survive. So yeah Gordon won a short sighted victory against the those working for the combine. But what happens when the combine tire of these upstart humans? they probably won't even bother trying to enslave us the second time around.Quoted. For. Emphasis.

All throughout this thread I've been thinking, Gordon's drawn the ire of an enemy force that is far too strong. When the Combine decide to do something, and they will, it will be over for us. We don't even have the resources to mount a one-hour war against them.



Although, I'm going to break the Gordon-bashing for a moment, and let me just say I'm thrilling at the prospect of the Combine coming back in full-force, and Gordon Freeman stopping them. I'm hyping myself up here. :laugh:

[Laivasse]

The problem is that I think he DOES feel compelled to repent for his past actions, which leads to even worse situations. Gordon's initial mistake, pushing the sample into the anti-mass spectrometer, was not really his fault. And yet, he was compelled by his conscience to fix the problem by killing the Nihilanth, which lead to the BIGGER problem of the Combine. Upon arriving in City 17, he sees what his actions have done, and with only a little persuasion from his colleagues he sets out to atone for putting humanity in this state. But to do that...he decides the best thing to do is blow up the citadel, which now leads to the necessary evacuation of City 17. It's a vicious cycle.

Hmm, interesting. I've never really thought about him as doing anything other than fighting for enough breathing space to have a nice cup of tea.

Another possibility is that he feels indignant about being at ground zero and being blamed for it all, when in fact he knows he did nothing to bring about the RC. He might have the mindset of a valiant crusader trying to set the world to rights, while he's actually doing the equivalent of hitting a broken TV with a lead pipe until it starts working again.

I think his first course of business should be to STOP KILLING THE END BOSS. He can work on the rest from there.

QFT. Have a shave, dye his hair, take off the glasses so maybe he can move around for 5 minutes without someone shouting "ZOMG FRIEDMAN, SAVE US ALL LOL", and then he can maybe finally get a handle on events.

All throughout this thread I've been thinking, Gordon's drawn the ire of an enemy force that is far too strong. When the Combine decide to do something, and they will, it will be over for us. We don't even have the resources to mount a one-hour war against them.

QFT again - for me it seemed like the Combine still had enough strength left even in C17 alone to flatten us, just that they're slow to fully wake. But this is kind of what I like about Freeman. While there's a lot to be said for the softly softly catchee monky approach, I also admire the type of man who, upon seeing the might of an intergalactic humanity-mincer arrayed against him, starts shooting people in the face.

[Jintor]

Last post = +10 1337 5k1llz.

Technically, Freeman has no free will, because he is controlled by the player. But, assuming that all the moves that the player makes is actually what Gordon himself would do, then it is fairly obvious to me that he does not really have free will. I suppose the sort of way which the game is made and directed to become (during production) forces the developers into this sorta position.

So that we empathise more with Freeman, so that we feel like Freeman, they give him no dicernable character beyond what actions that the player makes Freeman better. Because he has no character, he has no free will. Or he does. I don't know. Damnit, i'm rambling. I'll think this through later, when I've stopped watching anime.

[lastHOPE_lambda]

Do you take up a crowbar against the entire government the second a cop beats a guy?

For all we know the first guy we see beaten in hl2 may have been provoking the metro.

Maybe the first one but how about the second,third fourth, fifth, sixth.......
and yes I would take a crowbar against my goverment if I saw dead and tourtured corpses everywhere. Expesially when said corpses always seem to turn up in the interogation rooms of the combine!
But I'll try to see this from your perspective. Ok say instead of fighting the good fight where there is a great chance I'll die, but it would be a fast painless death, and being a hero like good old noble Freeman. You want me to be a coward, be striped of my humanity and die a slow and horrible death?

[Rizzo]

Gordon is a stone cold killer. He has supressed his fellings to kill more effective. But hes still a good guy. But he dosent realy gives it a second thought when watching some people die.
Hes like Bond.

[15357]

Gordon is a stone cold killer. He has supressed his fellings to kill more effective. But hes still a good guy. But he dosent realy gives it a second thought when watching some people die.
Hes like Bond.

I... what?

It is like GTA, in the sense that you kill law enforcement officers who are doing their duty to preserve mankind.

[Flyingdebris]

ah but don't you see, the combine have to kill the rebels and oppress the crap out of humanity. Otherwise the combine overlords will just swoop in with their unlimited supply of synths and energy weapons and annihilate us. Its a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. Everyone is either oppressor, oppressed, Gordon Freeman, or dead, in the hl2 setting.

[Max35]

I think Gordon is intentionally flawed. hl has avoided cliches thus far, and it won't start with Gordon. He's not some heroic badass that makes all the right decisions all the time. He's a gifted killer, with impaired judgement skills. But the judgement is left to the gman. He approves of what Gordon has done at the end of hl2 it seems "you have accomplished much in a small time span." Gman placed Gordon in C17 for one reason, and one reason only. To eliminate Breen (his power to command, anyway), collasping the administration, he didn't send Gordon there to be an ambassador obviously. Gordon acts on instinct, the gman is supposedly the evolved being steering Gordon in the right direction.

And what if Gordon had let Breen escape into the Combine homeworld?, who knows what would happen.

[Rizzo]

Yeah, that G-man sent him to destroy breen is obvious. And i agree with you.
But i realy imagine Gordon to have a rock face most of the time. like on the pictures, head tilt slithly forward. Cool, emotionless expression. But maybee a smile now and then. Like when blowing the crap out of a combine or listening to Alyx talk.

And hes not a fool. Hes Crazy!

[Samon]

Gman very clearly did not send Gordon to kill Breen.

[Rizzo]

No but to destroy the combine citadel... Im just tired and dont want to type so much.

[Langolier]

I don't see how Freeman has poor judgement at all.

He is never given much of a choice in his actions; it always winds down to live or die, and he chooses life. He's human, that's what rational humans do.

There's no justification for what Breen is doing. Either way humanity as we know it is going to go extinct. I don't know about you, and I don't know about Freeman, but I'd rather go extinct fighting for self-preservation than 'continue' on as a shambling monstrosity in some dank alien fortress somewhere, robbed of my humanity.

It's obvious the Combine is comitting genocide. They're not using gas chambers or ovens, they're doing it more gradually. Each rebel, citizen, or CP officer killed isn't going to be replaced very easily because no new people are being born. Yet the Combine certainly doesn't hesitate to "Deservice" people.

[lastHOPE_lambda]

I agree with langolier. Gordon is'nt wrong at all to want to fight something as oppressive as the combine and we are dieing either way so why not go ahead and fight them? can anyone give a good answer?

[TheGMan.]

Darkside555,

free*will adj : VOLUNTARY


Yeah, sadly, that wasn't in HL2. So... how could you possibly say Gordon is a dumbass when he's basically forced to do everything?

[Wolfxi]

Wow, talk about a intense HL2 thread...Havent seen something like this since the time there was that huge thread about the G-Man sightings... :laugh:

[Jintor]

Or the Combine were on Xen thread.

[Laivasse]

Darkside555,

free*will adj : VOLUNTARY


Yeah, sadly, that wasn't in HL2. So... how could you possibly say Gordon is a dumbass when he's basically forced to do everything?

I don't think some people are really getting this. We ALL KNOW HL2 was a game, and that you're steered and you have to kill the end boss and you have to complete the game.

But transpose HL2 to a real-world situation and imagine that there are other ways it could have gone, and then consider whether or not the course of events that Gordon took in HL2 was the best he could have done, and if it was, whether there was nevertheless anything bad about it.

As for why Gordon wouldn't or shouldn't fight the Combine:
(to reiterate what's already been said for those who want it in biscuit form)
1) You don't know who you're fighting for. The rebels, you say? Humanity, you say? Really? Then who's that mysterious guy in a suit? Looks a lot like Mother Theresa, does he? Really looks like he has everyone's best interests at heart, does he?

2) You don't know what's going to happen if you lose. Well, actually you can get a very good idea of what would happen - mankind would pay in blood for your belligerence. Imagine what happens to the rest of humanity if Gordon dies halfway through HL2. Maybe you say that death is better than life under the Combine, but can one man make that choice for the whole of humanity?

3) You don't know what's going to happen if you 'win'. For a start how can you 'win' in the final sense of the word? One of the very first things you see is a departures board listing a ton of other cities, so can a victory by bullets really be possible against something that's always going to have ten times the manpower you just wiped out? Even if we take it that Gordon 'won' by destroying the reactor, what's going to happen now? A city full of people may well be wiped out. We have no idea if this has significantly affected the Combine's control of earth in any way.


If we're going to get down to brass tacks, of course there was little other that Gordon could do but fight, but it's fun to think about there being shades of grey/recklessness to his actions. Maybe it would have been better to focus more energy on figuring out the why's and wherefores, maybe he should have treated Gman as his target instead of the Combine, etc. Max35 is right (apart from the bit about killing Breen) in that Gordon isn't just some cliched whiter-than-white action hero who can do no wrong.

Here's something else to think about:
Gordon can speak. We know this because he gives commands to rebels, and can initiate 'conversation' with peeps in the beginning of HL1 and 2. If he can speak, what might his motive be for not spilling the beans about Gman to his allies?

I reckon he sees it somehow as something that must be investigated on his own (although he's a pretty poor investigator), due to his personal history in the matter. Maybe he fears ridicule from his friends should he mention some dimension-warping guy in a suit who kidnapped him for 10 years - after all these are stressful times and Gordon's a quiet guy who kills lots of people so it would be only reasonable to assume he's gone f*cking nuts.

Either that or he doesn't fully trust his friends. After all, Gman wakes him up on the other side of the world and then he runs straight into his allies - maybe Gordon suspects they are in collusion somehow, and wants to keep his cards close to his chest.

[lastHOPE_lambda]

I don't think some people are really getting this. We ALL KNOW HL2 was a game, and that you're steered and you have to kill the end boss and you have to complete the game.

But transpose HL2 to a real-world situation and imagine that there are other ways it could have gone, and then consider whether or not the course of events that Gordon took in HL2 was the best he could have done, and if it was, whether there was nevertheless anything bad about it.

As for why Gordon wouldn't or shouldn't fight the Combine:
(to reiterate what's already been said for those who want it in biscuit form)
1) You don't know who you're fighting for. The rebels, you say? Humanity, you say? Really? Then who's that mysterious guy in a suit? Looks a lot like Mother Theresa, does he? Really looks like he has everyone's best interests at heart, does he?

2) You don't know what's going to happen if you lose. Well, actually you can get a very good idea of what would happen - mankind would pay in blood for your belligerence. Imagine what happens to the rest of humanity if Gordon dies halfway through HL2. Maybe you say that death is better than life under the Combine, but can one man make that choice for the whole of humanity?

3) You don't know what's going to happen if you 'win'. For a start how can you 'win' in the final sense of the word? One of the very first things you see is a departures board listing a ton of other cities, so can a victory by bullets really be possible against something that's always going to have ten times the manpower you just wiped out? Even if we take it that Gordon 'won' by destroying the reactor, what's going to happen now? A city full of people may well be wiped out. We have no idea if this has significantly affected the Combine's control of earth in any way.


If we're going to get down to brass tacks, of course there was little other that Gordon could do but fight, but it's fun to think about there being shades of grey/recklessness to his actions. Maybe it would have been better to focus more energy on figuring out the why's and wherefores, maybe he should have treated Gman as his target instead of the Combine, etc. Max35 is right (apart from the bit about killing Breen) in that Gordon isn't just some cliched whiter-than-white action hero who can do no wrong.

Here's something else to think about:
Gordon can speak. We know this because he gives commands to rebels, and can initiate 'conversation' with peeps in the beginning of HL1 and 2. If he can speak, what might his motive be for not spilling the beans about Gman to his allies?

I reckon he sees it somehow as something that must be investigated on his own (although he's a pretty poor investigator), due to his personal history in the matter. Maybe he fears ridicule from his friends should he mention some dimension-warping guy in a suit who kidnapped him for 10 years - after all these are stressful times and Gordon's a quiet guy who kills lots of people so it would be only reasonable to assume he's gone f*cking nuts.

Either that or he doesn't fully trust his friends. After all, Gman wakes him up on the other side of the world and then he runs straight into his allies - maybe Gordon suspects they are in collusion somehow, and wants to keep his cards close to his chest.
1) You just have to hope G-man ultimately knows best, and besides if you go against G-man whats gonna happen...he'll stick you in a void for the rest of eternity!
2) Yes one man does have a right to make this choice because its "his choice"! No one had to follow freeman, and if freeman wanted to launch a suscide mission against the combine no one should have even cared because as long as no one helped him the combine would have just punished them the same amount as always. Besides he has the right to pursue happiness because no one has the right to take is freedom.
3)You don't, but that can also be a good thing.

And good point I geuss he can speak but I think the reason he keeps the G-man thing to himself as an advantage. I'll explain this futher if you want but I think most of you will understand.

[Jintor]

I think it's more intresting that Gordon is, ahem, 'up for the highest bidder', according to Dr. Breen. And that Alyx and Dr Vance both go 'Don't listen to him Gordon!". The ending conversations are probably the most intresting in the game, yes?

[Rizzo]

Intressting... And confusing...

[esplin]

I think the reasons for Gordon Freeman to oppose the Combine so strongly is best explained in raising the bar by the G-man.
"Ten years, Mr. Freeman. It won't seem that way to you, of course. But ten years is a long time. Long enough for humanity to swallow its pride and begin to accept a common fate. Long enough for your fellow man to develop callouses against the master's collar. Long enough for the first scars of whiplash to heal. Long enough to forget how things used to be."

"But you won't have forgotten Mr. Freeman. You still remember how the air used to taste. You remember how freedom felt. You remember....the sky."

Now I don't think Freeman's first reaction to City 17 was, "The Combine sucks, so I'm just going to blow up every CP between here and the Citadel." I think at first when he was in Dr. Kleiner's lab he was intending to help the Resistance in a more subtle way. Help with Research, maybe join a strike team.
Even Dr. Vance was under the assumption that Freeman would help him with the teleporter and other projects.
However, its clear when he agrees to help Alyx free her father that Gordon understands that he's the only one who stands a chance against the Combine.

[Rizzo]

Yeah its like i say damn it. Hes a bad mother f**ker.
And hell how much stuffs in RTB?

[esplin]

As much as you want there to be.;)
Seriously, though, several short stories, written by Marc Laidlaw, really add a lot to the plot. I can see why they were cut but many of them fleshed out the characters more.
The one I quoted was an extended intro with the G-man. It does alot to explain what exactly happened to Gordon and what the G-man plans for him.

Originally there was a train sequence as well, reminiscent of the tram ride from Half-Life. While I wasn't a big fan of the tram sequence the view of the wasteland described in the scene is something I would have really liked to see.

A scene with Eli Vance is also in RtB that explains for Gordon (and the player) just what happened after Half-Life. This, I think, they should have left in the game. Mostly because the "Portal storms" aren't very well explained in the game, and it is vague to the point that you really have to find out what happened through other sources (internet and what not.) This is what I think is the only weakness in the plot and it bugs me tremendously.

Overall much of the story that was originally described very specificly in the game was left to the players own interpretation, which I think was a change mostly for the better.
But I'm rambling, Raising the Bar is great. The End.

[Rizzo]

I want it... But im to cheap.

[Max35]

Gman very clearly did not send Gordon to kill Breen.

Okay, you mean Breen was not a target at all? How is it very clear?. I'm in the dark (as usual). I mean to topple the Combine you would have to topple the administration, and you can't have Breen alive (or at his seat of power). Maybe not kill, but kicked off his throne. Or why would he NOT send him to kill/terminate Breen's position?.

[esplin]

Because the G-man's a GENIUS!!!!!
But yeah, he clearly sent you to kill Breen. Infact, if Breen isn't dead I'm sure Gordon is going to get quite a talking to.

[Max35]

Because the G-man's a GENIUS!!!!!
But yeah, he clearly sent you to kill Breen. Infact, if Breen isn't dead I'm sure Gordon is going to get quite a talking to.

I thought it was clear, but some opinions seem to say otherwise. As for Breen being dead, all gman cares about is Breen's position as administrator is disposed of. The manhunt can begin later, and I suspect, span several episodes but that goes off topic.

[Samon]

I honestly don't think Breen is significant in Gmans eyes. The Combine don't even care that much about Breen, they've just manipulated him into being hell bent on gaining access to Eli's portal technology.

Gman doesn't want Breen dead, he's insignificant. He, or whoever contracted Gordon to do so, wanted the reactor destroyed. It’s the tunnelling entanglement system, and in destroying it you cut the Combines connection with earth. That’s what mattered. Gman didn't extract you when Breens vital signs hit rock bottom, because Breen was still standing. Gman extracted you the moment that fusion reactor exploded.

Marc Laidlaw said once, that he thought the ending was great because it showed Gordons role in the universe. Of course it does, it shows Gordon is powerless, but a tool, and that once his assignment is completed its extraction time.

[Llama]

But that is based on the fact that the Combine only put ONE teleport device on the ENTIRE PLANET???
Unless i'm not understanding the theory, as long as the Combine had more than one device they wouldnt need them all operational

[Max35]

But that is based on the fact that the Combine only put ONE teleport device on the ENTIRE PLANET???
Unless i'm not understanding the theory, as long as the Combine had more than one device they wouldnt need them all operational

Well, it's their new entanglement device according to alyx. Which leads me to think there was only one at the time. But I also think that Breen (although an insignificant pawn of the Combine) was meant to be indirectly knocked off his perch of power. How else would Gordon get to the reactor?.

"Gman extracted you the moment that fusion reactor exploded"

True, but remember we are going back to C17 in AM. "We'll see about THAT(Breen still being alive)!" Without a leader, the Combine's forces are far less powerful, but Breen isn't dead yet. And that could be significant motivation for AM.

[Samon]

I really, really doubt Gman is referring to Breen when he says, "We'll see about THAT." It’s totally off.

Alyx at no point says it’s new. "Oh my god...this is the Citadel's dark fusion reactor, it powers their tunnelling entanglement device."
And besides, Gordon didn't have to topple Breen to get to the reactor. He could have easily bypassed Breen’s office, its just how events rolled. What’s Breen going to do really? With the Citadel in meltdown, he's got no basis of power to control them. Without the Combines direction, he's lost and so are the Overwatch forces.

[Laivasse]

But that is based on the fact that the Combine only put ONE teleport device on the ENTIRE PLANET???
Unless i'm not understanding the theory, as long as the Combine had more than one device they wouldnt need them all operational

I found this confusing myself tbh. I know we shouldn't take the cut bits of RtB as canon, but according to that, and the fact that there would appear to be a lot of other Combine controlled cities - and also the fact that it would be weird for the Combine to invade earth just through some obscure eastern European town - it seems there might be more than one citadel (presumably each with its own reactor).

Maybe Gman just required the opening which would be created by the Combine losing control of one city.

[Max35]

She doesn't?, hmm I'll have to check up on that. If she didn't, then there is no reason to believe there is only one, right?. Unless you consider entanglement is a new technology (from what I gathered at Bm East), and Breen would only have time to install it at his own Citadel (which would be more of and advantage for him, although that was proved wrong) before Gordon showed up.

And I guess Gordon could have bypassed (easily is a different matter, he had no knowledge of the Citadel) Breen's office. Although, with the reactor in meltdown, Breen is powerless as you said. A pleasant side-effect, I don't think gman would have disapproved, it seems to be aligned with his employer's goals. It might not have been the primary goal, but the secondary and it more than likely was expected by gman, and maybe he isn't referring to Breen by saying "We'll see about THAT!." Who knows?

[Rizzo]

Well one thing botherd me when Gordon got to the office. It realy was newbie. Jumping on one of those "whatever-you.call-it"? Being transported up to breens office? thats just stupid. He had a bad as gravity gun that could probably rip open the doore to his office. That whould have been a cool alt.Ending. And there it is. Gordon is a fool. And a cold killa!

If Breens dead or alive is not important at the moment Valve probably left that open... So they could have him as a joker. Or as a suprise in half life 3, If they felt like it. The chanses are that we´ll nerver see him again. or maybe just his bodey?

[UltimaApocalypse]

Can't the Combine send stuff without a teleporter on the other end? Isn't that how they got the citadels here in the first place?

[Laivasse]

Can't the Combine send stuff without a teleporter on the other end? Isn't that how they got the citadels here in the first place?

Yep. From what I understand from RtB, they teleport in a whole citadel all at once (presumably with all their forces inside it, at battle stations, waiting to emerge).

You could theorise that the portal on top of the citadel(s?) makes it possible to send in smaller amounts of troops as needed, or that it makes it possible to send troops back on the return journey to other parts of the Combine empire *shrug*

Mossman says the Combine can't teleport locally, but they can probably at least teleport from citadel to citadel on earth, since at the utmost all that would entail would be to send something 'home' and then back to earth again at a different citadel. It probably isn't even as awkward as that.

[UltimaApocalypse]

Imagine....thet teleport a whole new citadel where the one in meltdown is :)

[Laivasse]

Imagine....thet teleport a whole new citadel where the one in meltdown is :)

LOL, the Combine have a 'dustbin' planet for this very eventuality. Just before the citadel blows they port it out onto their barren rubbish planet, and warp in a fresh new one. But this one has a big sign on top saying 'C0MBWN3d'.

[UltimaApocalypse]

I had a theory a while back that they used Xen as a kind of fallback point, so they built the Citadels there and teleported them in. I also thought that you were seeing Xen at the end of Half Life 2, and you go there first assuming Xen was a gateway to many other dimensions. Either that or the Combine were on Xen :P

[Jintor]

Hmmm. Perhaps there's something on Earth that the Gman doesn't want the Combine to get...

[Samon]

She doesn't?, hmm I'll have to check up on that. If she didn't, then there is no reason to believe there is only one, right?. Unless you consider entanglement is a new technology (from what I gathered at Bm East), and Breen would only have time to install it at his own Citadel (which would be more of and advantage for him, although that was proved wrong) before Gordon showed up.


No, because thats what the Combine have always used, to get from universe to universe.

[Rizzo]

Hmmm. Perhaps there's something on Earth that the Gman doesn't want the Combine to get...

Yeah like all its recources.

[Sam]

As I understand it, the dark fusion reactors of the combine are used to teleport from their universe to ours, it consumes a lot of energy. The teleporter technology being developed by the resistance uses Xen as a relay for local teleportation - between locations on earth - which uses very little energy. The combine want local teleportation because it's far more efficient for deploying troops than a bit dark fusion portal, or transporting troops in dropships or whatever. Plus, the way that the Xen relay teleport works could possibly be engineered to transport from the combine world, through Xen, to earth or wherever, much more easily and efficiently than the dark fusion tunnelling thingie.

[Max35]

No, because thats what the Combine have always used, to get from universe to universe.

right, don't know what I was thinking. So, Eli and Mossman were just modifying entanglemant with the Xen relay, correct?. So, I guess it is entirely possible for the Combine to have other entanglement devices within the other Citadels. There is nothing ruling it out, as far as I can tell.

[Samon]

Yeah like all its recources.

Doubtful, the Combine have already pretty much stripped the planet bare.

[Rizzo]

So what you think, is that the combine is gathering somthing else the g-man dont want the them to get? Like what?

[Samon]

I don't think there is anything on Earth Gman wants.

[Rizzo]

Well he must have some intresst in it. cuz if it wasent for him, earth whoud have been breens world. Or something like that.
Maybe just lucky coinsident for humans?

[Samon]

Someone hired Gordon through the Gman to help liberate Earth, or at least for him to destroy the tunnelling entanglement device and cut the Combines connection. Quite obviously imo, its the resistance.

[Rizzo]

Someone hired Gordon through the Gman to help liberate Earth, or at least for him to destroy the tunnelling entanglement device and cut the Combines connection. Quite obviously imo, its the resistance.

I dont realy think so... Becouse that kinda mean that the resistance could offer gman somthing. And what do they get? teleportation tec? A naked planet? Or else the resistance whould have som kinde of leader that could have come in contact with gman. Who? Eli? Klainer? whouldent thet have mentioned it?

And Breen saying "did you know your contract was open to the highest bidder?" Well, could the resistance realy outbid the combine in anyway possible? dont think so. I guess that breen was unawere of gordons contract in the begining, but he got intell from someone... maybe that wormy thing.
And he could probably get him before the resistance.
So i guess Someone else. Or that gman wasnt intressted in whatever price was givin, and just went with the resistance.

[Max35]

Who was the most obvious to gain something?, the resistance.

Who was expecting him when he showed up (to a degree)?, the resistance. Kleiner said "I expected more warning", instead of "Freeman, you're alive, huh?" They knew he was alive, not many did, and knew he was coming soon enough.

I suppose it is possible that an alien force contracted Freeman's services, but I doubt it. It is a planet drained of resources. The humans want it back, not so much for the resources, but because there is no other environment they can possibly live in.

EDIT: "I don't think there is anything on Earth Gman wants."

The people (Eli, as a researcher, Freeman as a fighter), seem to be a more potent resource than Earth itself. It's humanity he's after. While the masses offer very little, the occasional, random configuration of genetics can create something with alot of potential, as well as the circumstances.

[Rizzo]

Yeah... But i still think someone else hired him. Too bad Gordon dosent stop a bit and ask: How the **** did i get here?

[Max35]

Yeah... But i still think someone else hired him. Too bad Gordon dosent stop a bit and ask: How the **** did i get here?

Any evidence to the contrary of the resistance hiring him?. Gman *appears* human after all, he might be more inclined to do business with his own species.

[Samon]

I dont realy think so... Becouse that kinda mean that the resistance could offer gman somthing. And what do they get? teleportation tec? A naked planet? Or else the resistance whould have som kinde of leader that could have come in contact with gman. Who? Eli? Klainer? whouldent thet have mentioned it?

And Breen saying "did you know your contract was open to the highest bidder?" Well, could the resistance realy outbid the combine in anyway possible? dont think so. I guess that breen was unawere of gordons contract in the begining, but he got intell from someone... maybe that wormy thing.
And he could probably get him before the resistance.
So i guess Someone else. Or that gman wasnt intressted in whatever price was givin, and just went with the resistance.

Nobody said the Combine put in an offer. Breen was merely teasing Gordon, joking and mocking him - at the fact that the people Gordon considers his friends, have sold him out. Why else does Eli and Alyx shout "No!" "Don't listen to him Gordon."

Wormy thing is the actual Combine, its the only Combine you see in the entire game.

[Jintor]

Yes, the Combine (or more accurately, Breen's trans-human overwatch forces) probably felt very secure in their massive fortress, throwing infinite waves of cannon-fodder and gradually more difficult units at a single man. And some antlions, and some rebels. A lot of rebels.

That's not sarcasm, they probably did feel secure.

But another thing here is... what did the resistance offer Gman? A new tie? A better briefcase? Alyx's firstborn son?

[_Z_Ryuken]

Gman has needs to. They probably gave him energon cubes or free passes to Busch Garden's or something.

[Max_Payne]

i say who gives a shit if hes a bummbeling idiot or not.. he saves the day regardless. ahaha my kinda heroe

PEACE

Mikey:cheers:

[Darkside55]

If for nothing else, I believe the G-man worked with the resistance to save humanity itself. I don't believe the G-man does everything just for his own gain; while that definately is a part of it, I think he has humanity's best interests at heart (which is kind of funny if you think about it, because Breen seems to think he is also working in humanity's best interest).

[Samon]

I think he has humanity's best interests at heart (which is kind of funny if you think about it, because Breen seems to think he is also working in humanity's best interest).

Ho ho, I wouldn't say that. Quite honestly it looks as though he doesn't give two shits. His wicked smiles, his cryptic comments...he's merely hiring you off to somebody who does have a care for Earth.

[UltimaApocalypse]

To me he seems apologetic and uncaring at the same time. "I do apolgize for what must seem to you and arbituary inposition".

[Darkside55]

Ho ho, I wouldn't say that. Quite honestly it looks as though he doesn't give two shits. His wicked smiles, his cryptic comments...he's merely hiring you off to somebody who does have a care for Earth.Looks can be deceiving. If he didn't care, it's a wonder why he keeps you at all, especially YOU, Gordon Freeman, someone who DOES act with humanity's best interests at heart. Someone who remembers the way the air tastes.

A lot of people say that the only reason he hired Gordon out to the resistance is because they had more to offer the G-man, but I can't see it. Considering what the resistance has versus what the universal union has, it's a clear choice who would have been the highest bidder for Gordon's services.

"But, the humans have local teleportation," you say. But does it look like the G-man needs that? His teleportation abilities are FAR beyond what Eli and Isaac have cooked up in their hideouts. In addition, the Combine had a working local teleporter as well (albeit a slow teleporter).

The G-man doesn't need our technology, and the Earth's resources are gone. We don't even have the borderworld any more. The Combine are catching up on our only bargaining chip. What could the G-man possibly want from us? Human potential? We had nothing to barter with against the Combine. The only two possibilities I can see are that either the Combine didn't make an offer for Gordon Freeman, or the G-man wanted to liberate Earth and/or put a dent in the Combine. Or all three of those things. Despite all the things on the surface (those smirks and speeches), despite the fact that he is a manipulator, he's doing it for Earth. And wasn't it said somewhere that he's the "misrepresented servant of the people?"

[Rizzo]

I know that Gman have more advanced teleportation tec... I onely meant it as a; why the f***k whould he care?
But maybee he dont want the combine to get it.

[Darkside55]

I know that Gman have more advanced teleportation tec... I onely meant it as a; why the f***k whould he care?
But maybee he dont want the combine to get it.That too.

[Samon]

Looks can be deceiving. If he didn't care, it's a wonder why he keeps you at all, especially YOU, Gordon Freeman, someone who DOES act with humanity's best interests at heart. Someone who remembers the way the air tastes.

A lot of people say that the only reason he hired Gordon out to the resistance is because they had more to offer the G-man, but I can't see it. Considering what the resistance has versus what the universal union has, it's a clear choice who would have been the highest bidder for Gordon's services.

"But, the humans have local teleportation," you say. But does it look like the G-man needs that? His teleportation abilities are FAR beyond what Eli and Isaac have cooked up in their hideouts. In addition, the Combine had a working local teleporter as well (albeit a slow teleporter).

The G-man doesn't need our technology, and the Earth's resources are gone. We don't even have the borderworld any more. The Combine are catching up on our only bargaining chip. What could the G-man possibly want from us? Human potential? We had nothing to barter with against the Combine. The only two possibilities I can see are that either the Combine didn't make an offer for Gordon Freeman, or the G-man wanted to liberate Earth and/or put a dent in the Combine. Or all three of those things. Despite all the things on the surface (those smirks and speeches), despite the fact that he is a manipulator, he's doing it for Earth. And wasn't it said somewhere that he's the "misrepresented servant of the people?"


I'm certain there is something we have to offer him. Its clearly not the local teleportation - thats what the Combine so desperately want, as there only prototype one was destroyed.
Gordon is used because he is unstoppable. Nothing stops him, and the Gman has him at his finger tips.

[Darkside55]

I'm certain there is something we have to offer him. Its clearly not the local teleportation - thats what the Combine so desperately want, as there only prototype one was destroyed.
Gordon is used because he is unstoppable. Nothing stops him, and the Gman has him at his finger tips.If there is something, aside from human potential, I can't think of it. I don't get why he'd offer to help the rebels when they have nothing...substantial...to offer him. And also, why would he have any need to feed Freeman some spiel about the Earth and why the Combine are bad, etc.? I realize it was cut and so he really never said that, leading to a much more cryptic speech (and thus his intentions), but it seems like the original opening scene gives away a bit more about him than he lets on.

[lastHOPE_lambda]

But another thing here is... what did the resistance offer Gman? Alyx's firstborn son?
Hey you might have something there if the father of her first born son is freeman I bet he'd take the child after all maybe that is what the g-man deals in people, not ordinary people but people who have the potential to change the outcome of almost any event, people like freeman. Think about it if the G-man runs out of people what good are his "services" he doesn't do anything him self he just waits for the perfect moment and lets lose one of what I assume are his many Freeman's.

[Rizzo]

Hey you might have something there if the father of her first born son is freeman I bet he'd take the child after all maybe that is what the g-man deals in people, not ordinary people but people who have the potential to change the outcome of almost any event, people like freeman. Think about it if the G-man runs out of people what good are his "services" he doesn't do anything him self he just waits for the perfect moment and lets lose one of what I assume are his many Freeman's.

Dreadful theory. Thats not gonna happend. If it does, valve will truely have lost all of their imagination.
Somthing like Gordon whould wake up from a nightmare or somethin.

[lastHOPE_lambda]

lol I know but seriously the G-man dosen't ever do anything for himself hes always using people I'm just trying to make sence of why some guy with frickin outter dimensional powers would even need the help of a human. I mean it seems like the G-man could do anything he wants and yet he holds off on this and uses a human. there must be a reason. and also in the first halflife G-man is invulnerable why dosen't he just pick up a gun and storm the citadel himself what does he have to fear.

[Rizzo]

Well maybee the last game valve makes is Half life 3: Xen agent. When you play as Gman and teleport around, hire people and meet his employes.

[Talyn]

I'd buy it! Instead of weapons, you'd have different cryptic speech options and clues, and your mission objectives would be to show up, be seen, and then disappear again before people could reach you!

:dozey: Aw, come on, it would be fun! Hey, where are you all going? Come back!

[Jintor]

I agree. It'd be like office simulator 2, but with teleporters and aliens that want to kill you.

[Darkside55]

...in the first halflife G-man is invulnerable...He's only invulnerable because you weren't supposed to be able to kill him. He's not actually impervious to bullets...I hope.

And I'd play a "Sim G-man" game, if it was like what Talyn described. I'd pay good money for that. Although, I'd rather play a game where we get to see what the G-man's capable of, power-wise. I like to imagine that, bullet-proof or not, he could've easily stormed the citadel himself, if he had the authority to from his employers. Taking that pistol out of his briefcase and gunning down combine soldiers, and smashing their faces in with his briefcase, then teleporting away to the next area.

[Zoetrap]

He's only invulnerable because you weren't supposed to be able to kill him. He's not actually impervious to bullets...I hope.

And I'd play a "Sim G-man" game, if it was like what Talyn described. I'd pay good money for that. Although, I'd rather play a game where we get to see what the G-man's capable of, power-wise. I like to imagine that, bullet-proof or not, he could've easily stormed the citadel himself, if he had the authority to from his employers. Taking that pistol out of his briefcase and gunning down combine soldiers, and smashing their faces in with his briefcase, then teleporting away to the next area.

Nah, he'd just calmly teleport in to Breen's office, adjust his tie and go "sso... Dr.Breen. We meet at lassst...."

At least that's what he'd do in my book :smoking:

[Darkside55]

...but THEN what? You know he'd totally leap over Breen's desk and smash his face in with his briefcase.

[Rizzo]

...but THEN what? You know he'd totally leap over Breen's desk and smash his face in with his briefcase.

Loved to see that. Oh wait... My link shows that! :D

[lastHOPE_lambda]

Loved to see that. Oh wait... My link shows that! :D
LMAO THAT IS SO AWSOME BEST THING I'VE EVER SEEN! So has anyone tried to use noclip in HL2 to follow G-man and shoot him up to see if hes still impervious? G-man=Power so why does some one so powerful use a human, because there must be something special about said human. Hence Gordon=Power. Power+Power=Unstopable, but before Gordon become truly powerful he must know what his power is and how to use it. The is why I like the G-man is training Gordon theory. Because before the RC Gordon was just a scientist and he always would have been a scientist if not for the RC. So either G-man caused the RC to train Gordon or Breen caused it and G-man took advantage of the situation to train gordon. So G-man is both training Gordon and using him to accomplish his own ends at the same time. Smart lil' Devil :devil:

[Rizzo]

Well Gordon most have had some sort of training. Becouse theres no way that someone with no training and aiming skill to take down 5 soldiers at once.
Maybe he went hunting with his dad or somthing, maybe he served in the military?

[Samon]

No, he didn't serve in the military.

[Talyn]

Gordon had just recently finished getting his doctorate at MIT when he was deep-selected to go work for Dr. Kleiner and Breen at the Black Mesa research facility. It doesn't mention anywhere in his background or curriculum vitae any military training.

That being said, Gordon was supposedly the Black Mesa Hazard Course champion, which implies not only a high level of physical fitness but also an excellent familiarity with the pistol, the submachinegun, and grenades. Most likely, Gordon had simply trained on the Hazard Course, which is why he knew how to effectively use all of those weapons. The rest he just sort of learned "on the job," if you will.

On a side note, did anyone else think it was a very clever bit of foreshadowing to have the science facility hazard course (which was designed to familiarize the exploratory science team with the HEV suit, if you remember) include weapons training, including grenades? Whatever the heck those scientists were exploring, they were exploring it HEAVILY armed. Where they were exploring, of course, turned out to be Xen, a "hostile environment" if ever I've heard of one.

[_Z_Ryuken]

I think Gordo is a hardcore gamer.

He learned to kill monsters playing Doom.

[Digamma]

Maybe he trained playing Half-Life. And he survived because the game showed him exactly what was going to happen, where everything was ect.
He survived by playing a game based on his trek though Black Mesa before it happened... O_o
OMG, GMAN IS A VALVe EMPLOYE!!!

[Darkside55]

A single run through a hazard course wouldn't give Gordon the abilities he has. His prowess with weaponry is either a natural talent, or the HEV suit compensating for his aim. Or possibly a combination of both.

Personally I think it's just superior skill, but the suit can aim for him, if enabled to do so. When he extends his arm, it locks his muscles in order to steady the gun, and can adjust his shoulder to line up the gun to a victim's weakpoint (i.e., the head on a marine). Whether Gordon uses it or not...

I always thought it would've been a funny scene if Barney had shot a headcrab and says, "Did you see that shot?" and then Gordon shoots another, further away, and Barney remarks, "Auto-aim, Gordon? That's cheating."

[Samon]

I always thought it would've been a funny scene if Barney had shot a headcrab and says, "Did you see that shot?" and then Gordon shoots another, further away, and Barney remarks, "Auto-aim, Gordon? That's cheating."

Hehe :D

[jerkasaur]

i always knew gordon had personality! the doctors said it was hyper-activity, but i knew better!

[Hullu]

The autoaim sucks by the way.

I may confuse hl2 with some other game, but doesn't the HEV enable Gordon to run faster for a couple of seconds, draining the 'battery' of the suit? That made me laugh - Gordon needs a suit to run because he isn't too fit, being only a scientist who usually works in a lab all day.

Which reminds me of another matter: it's ridiculous how Gordon can't fit through some reasonably wide holes or gaps.... or maybe it's just the HEV again, otherwise Gordon should be quite fat.

[jerkasaur]

frindly fire disabled actually sucks more, i loved it when i choped the marines in HL1... and what do i get when i hit combine soldiers with the crowbar in HL2? Dancing bitches...

[Jintor]

The autoaim sucks by the way.

I may confuse hl2 with some other game, but doesn't the HEV enable Gordon to run faster for a couple of seconds, draining the 'battery' of the suit? That made me laugh - Gordon needs a suit to run because he isn't too fit, being only a scientist who usually works in a lab all day.

Which reminds me of another matter: it's ridiculous how Gordon can't fit through some reasonably wide holes or gaps.... or maybe it's just the HEV again, otherwise Gordon should be quite fat.

What I find funny is that the amount of light you output is related to the distance you can run. And I'm not sure but I thought that was his first day on the job.

[Darkside55]

The autoaim sucks by the way.

I may confuse hl2 with some other game, but doesn't the HEV enable Gordon to run faster for a couple of seconds, draining the 'battery' of the suit? That made me laugh - Gordon needs a suit to run because he isn't too fit, being only a scientist who usually works in a lab all day.

Which reminds me of another matter: it's ridiculous how Gordon can't fit through some reasonably wide holes or gaps.... or maybe it's just the HEV again, otherwise Gordon should be quite fat.
Yes, the auto-aim DOES suck. Especially when you aren't aware you started a game with it on, and suddenly the crosshair's moving against you when you try to aim.

The HEV suit's slightly bigger than a medium-sized human frame, and is bulky and rigid, so it doesn't allow for a person to squeeze through certain openings. Especially the shoulderpads on the thing; that's the widest part of the suit.

Also, it's not that Gordon isn't fit, it's the suit's problem again. As I said, it's bulky, and the fact that it's carrying weaponry, ammo, and medical supplies only add to that weight. In order to run, the user NEEDS the suit's assistance, otherwise they can only go so fast.

But to slam on Gordon some more, you could say that the suit is doing all the work for him.

[Rizzo]

Hell he jogs around all the time... the suit onely helps him sprint.

[auxin]

I may confuse hl2 with some other game, but doesn't the HEV enable Gordon to run faster for a couple of seconds, draining the 'battery' of the suit? That made me laugh - Gordon needs a suit to run because he isn't too fit, being only a scientist who usually works in a lab all day.


I'd bet that you're thinking of Deus Ex, that'd be the Speed Enhancement augmentation (and it rocks). Though this is not a 'suit' :borg:


\/\/\/\/ yes, though its the kind of battery i'd love for my mouse.

[Darkside55]

I'd bet that you're thinking of Deus Ex, that'd be the Speed Enhancement augmentation (and it rocks). Though this is not a 'suit' :borg:
No, he's thinking of the right game. Sprinting with the HEV drains its battery, the same as breathing underwater and using the flashlight.

[Megalomaniac]

Freeman is just misunderstood. His father beat, his mother watched and laugh, since he's a nerd it's more then likely he was bullied in school. He probably got his MIT through some online course or from pitty. It's why he is only pushing carts and flipping switches...
We know his his father beat him, look at the way he is pwns creatures and boxes with that crowbar! Not to mention his trigger finger ways, no wonder the military wanted him! And throwing nades at people like Laszlo!!
We can assume his mother laughed, Freeman obviously doesn't care about anyone else, if he did he might've talked to people instead of just listening to them and spoke.
Finally, we know he was bullied because of his submissive nature with the G-Man...
Freeman just needs someone to talk to.

[ríomhaire]

And he was living in Austria, that's got to mess you up :P

[MysticalMrBob]

Well it's kind of hard to tell a decent story when the main character never speaks, and it's an FPS.

[Jintor]

He could hold up signs.

[Megalomaniac]

Well it's kind of hard to tell a decent story when the main character never speaks, and it's an FPS.

You bash the story, i bash your skull in lol :smoking:
The story is flawless(No one correct me, i wish to believe this)

Halo does it. Other FPS's have done it, HL won't because they want you to feel like you are Gordon.

[UltimaApocalypse]

The Half Life story is most defintely perfect. Who disagrees? *looks around room*

[Jintor]

*ducks*

[Hullu]

I love the idea that Megalomaniac suggested. I can't relate to a heroic persona, but a nerdy, pitiful, insecure character with a messed up mind really appeals to me.

Maybe he even works out, how else could he carry all that weaponry around...
You gotta love games where they have the character carry everything from pistols to fusion rocket launchers. :P They've got mighty big pockets!

And I'd love to see how those med kits actually work - one or two can heal deadly wounds! Maybe they're steroids, they seemed to work for Predator...

[ríomhaire]

Halo does it.
No it doesn't.
"It's OK, he's a friend"

[Megalomaniac]

I forgot about his morphine addiction! It must be from the times his father beat him so badly...

[UltimaApocalypse]

No it doesn't.
"It's OK, he's a friend"
Silence! Every word Master Chief says is cool :thumbs:

"I need a weapon"
"Tell that to the Covenant"
"I won't"

[_Z_Ryuken]

I had a dream last night Gordon talked. He was really nerdy sounding and very scared.
I had to go fight of some aliens for him he was so scared.

And then a kid stole his dad's RV and put the steering wheel on top where there was a deck for having barbecues but he had to stop because of the giant force feild.

[lastHOPE_lambda]

I had a dream last night Gordon talked. He was really nerdy sounding and very scared.
I had to go fight of some aliens for him he was so scared.

And then a kid stole his dad's RV and put the steering wheel on top where there was a deck for having barbecues but he had to stop because of the giant force feild.
That makes so much sence that its completely illogical

[Rizzo]

Gordons not a nerd. Hes a badass

[Darkside55]

Gordons not a nerd. Hes a badassHe's a scientist, and a fraud!

Speaking of which, Megalomaniac's post about Gordon getting his doctorate from an online course or out of pity made me think: did anyone else notice how he isn't called "doctor" by the G-man? In fact, even in the beginning of the game he addresses you as, "Mr. Freeman," rather than "Dr. Freeman." He doesn't call him Dr. Freeman until the end, perhaps just to humor him. Maybe Freeman isn't a real doctor. Maybe he forged his doctorate, quietly slipped away to Innsbruck, and was picked up by the G-man (who many believe to be his corporate sponsor). Perhaps that is also why he was chosen for the menial task of rolling a cart into a laser beam; he can't do any real scientific work.

The guy's on a free meal ticket from the G-man, and everyone else is just oblivious, calling him doctor when he clearly doesn't deserve it.

[ríomhaire]

I like your opening line but I realy doubt that.

[Rizzo]

Kleainer whould probably know if he wasnt a real doctor.

[Jintor]

BTW, Gordon's suit creates a portal into hammerspace, where he stores all his ammo and stuff.

[Darkside55]

I like your opening line but I realy doubt that.Indeed. :) I do find it curious though that the G-man always did address him as "Mr. Freeman" right up until the end. Was it just oversight?

Also, Gordon's status at BMRF was pretty low. You would think that with his experience, and tutelage under Drs. Vance and Kleiner, he'd get a different sort of job, something befitting his education, like working with the machinery or running calculations. Instead he gets the HEV training and is in charge of a decidedly un-scientific job. Apparently everyone who gets HEV training deals with these sorts of jobs (Drs. Cross and Green transporting the sample, for example).

BTW, Gordon's suit creates a portal into hammerspace, where he stores all his ammo and stuff.That's what I always say; pockets of interdimensional space.

[cquinn]

This is the same Gman that seemed to have only a passing familarity with
the english language?

You could argue that it just didn't occur to him that it matters to those silly
people at Black Mesa what title you call them by.

[ríomhaire]

Indeed. :) I do find it curious though that the G-man always did address him as "Mr. Freeman" right up until the end. Was it just oversight?

Also, Gordon's status at BMRF was pretty low. You would think that with his experience, and tutelage under Drs. Vance and Kleiner, he'd get a different sort of job, something befitting his education, like working with the machinery or running calculations. Instead he gets the HEV training and is in charge of a decidedly un-scientific job. Apparently everyone who gets HEV training deals with these sorts of jobs (Drs. Cross and Green transporting the sample, for example).

That's what I always say; pockets of interdimensional space.
Maybe he was indulging Freeman, finaly giving him his title. He refers to Adrian as Corperal.

[Laivasse]

"Er....I'm a doctor actually"

"We'll see...about that."

[Rizzo]

Hey they call you mr freeman in half life one, all the security guards. Thats wired init!!!

[ríomhaire]

Hey they call you mr freeman in half life one, all the security guards. Thats wired init!!!
Well, BM is full of Doctors so I guess it doesn't really mean much. I also heard that in the first edition Gordon only had a bacholers degree and that it was later changed to a doctorate, probably wrong though.

[jerkasaur]

"Er....I'm a doctor actually"

"We'll see...about that.":laugh:

[General Zex]

Allow me to shed some light on this:

We are Gordon Freeman. So it is our fault that anyone was killed in the process of our actions.

We were doing what we were told. Gordon Freeman is just our medium of existence in an otherwise non-existent world.

[Megalomaniac]

Allow me to shed some light on this:

We are Gordon Freeman. So it is our fault that anyone was killed in the process of our actions.

We were doing what we were told. Gordon Freeman is just our medium of existence in an otherwise non-existent world.

No, this isn't true. If it was true everyone would have a completely(rarely slight) difference. We are acting out what Gordon Freeman is doing. We have no choice becuase Gordon Freeman has already done it...this is just a playable memory of his...:rolling:

[General Zex]

Is it? I feel quite confident otherwise. Let us look at why Gordon Freeman, doesn't speak.

Quite simply because Valve clearly designed Gordon Freeman to be us. They felt that giving him a voice of his own would break immersion for the players and forward the idea that we aren't Gordon, but merely playing as him.

The developers chose wisely with their actions and I think it was quite clear that they intended for us to be Gordon Freeman. How much time spanned between Half Life and Half Life 2? Does anyone know for sure?

Gordon had not aged a day since the events of Half Life and Half Life 2. Which is another point I am going to make. Had Gordon aged, then one could say we are just playing as him, not being him.

Why is it that after Half Life 2, we are removed from the Citadel, and placed into a void? Because our purpose was fulfilled. Not Gordon's purpose, our purpose. We defeated the Combine and subsequently saved humanity. And it plays well into Half Life 3, where we will be called again, awoken again and stirred to action. Until that purpose be fulfilled as well.

As Breen said, "Did you realize your contract was open to the highest bidder?"

That is a subtle hint, I feel, playing on the notion that we are Gordon Freeman. That the highest bidder, is in fact not a Half Life entity, but one in our real world. That we have had the choice to make contracts with the lives with which to live in the virtual worlds. He is questioning our reasons for playing Half Life 2, rather than some other game.

All of his reasons, while making for a very interesting game, seem to point out the fact that we are Gordon Freeman. That our inaction would be to allow the Combine victory.

Gordon is not some metaphysical reincarnation of Jesus or the next Buddha. Bumbling idiot? No.

He is us. If he is a bumbling idiot, it is only because we didn't take our hands off the mouse and keyboard and thought of the repercussions of our actions. Did you think of the people below the Citadel that might perish if you succeeded?

Exactly my point.

[mrkab00m]

As for the not being able to fit through some openings; think about it. It's a game... the best way for all this is just a crouch key or maybe a prone key in some games.

[Jintor]

Think about the ability to store infinite amounts of ammo and weapons in your back pocket, without a backpack.

That's what pocket dimensions give to you.

[Samon]

The developers chose wisely with their actions and I think it was quite clear that they intended for us to be Gordon Freeman. How much time spanned between Half Life and Half Life 2? Does anyone know for sure?
Why is it that after Half Life 2, we are removed from the Citadel, and placed into a void? Because our purpose was fulfilled. Not Gordon's purpose, our purpose. We defeated the Combine and subsequently saved humanity. And it plays well into Half Life 3, where we will be called again, awoken again and stirred to action. Until that purpose be fulfilled as well.


Yes, it was around 10 years - and Gordon didn't age because he was in a place where time does not exist. Besides, we didn't actually defeat the Combine, and its not going to lead into Half-life 3 - it'll be Aftermath.

I'm not sure, I like to think of Gordon as a character, even though he never actually speaks. For instance, the characters drop their own little jokes in every now and then, about Gordon himself. The story isn't pioneered around, its Gordon and his role in the universe - he just doesn't talk because it'd seperate the player from the character.

[DeusExMachina]

I still wish he talked.

[Rizzo]

Well i dont. But id like to see a mirror or something.

[InnerRayg]

Well i dont. But id like to see a mirror or something.
I agree. The silent thing is cool...probably how I'd be if I was a one-man army of killing prowess too. But all throughout Half-Life 2 I walked into each bathroom fully expecting to find an intact mirror to get a good look at myself. One of the few small things HL2 dissapointed me on, but what can you do.

[Darkside55]

He is us. If he is a bumbling idiot, it is only because we didn't take our hands off the mouse and keyboard and thought of the repercussions of our actions. Did you think of the people below the Citadel that might perish if you succeeded?

Exactly my point.
:eek:

You have convinced me that I am a terrible murderer. All this time I was blaming Gordon Freeman for his reckless irresponsibility and willful disregard for innocent life, but it's been me at the reins, putting the whip to his back all along. I am thoroughly ashamed.

As for the rest of the stuff you said...eh, a little too much fourth wall-breaking, in my opinion. Breen's words are a plot point, not a joke on purchasing HL2 over another shooter. The thought, "that we have had the choice to make contracts with the lives with which to live in the virtual worlds," is a real mind-bender, but I think you're delving too deep into the meaning of "the highest bidder."

On mirrors:

I'm a bit torn on the subject. Seeing Gordon's reflection does make sense in establishing that we are him (the act of looking into a mirror and seeing yourself), but on the flipside it might seem...odd. I can't quite put it into words, but I don't think it'd work as well as it does now (NOT seeing your reflection). It'd be breaking continuity to include it now anyway.

[Rizzo]

True, but i might have been cool, seeing him. In Kleiners glasses or something.
And yeah, the silent thing is cool. Hes a one or two expretion kind of guy.

But, MIRRORS IN HALF LIFE 3!!!!

AND OMG THAT WHOULD MEAN A MODEL FOR GARRYS MOD!

[slumber]

Not only is Gordon an idiot, he's a fisherman!

http://www.isleepinabox.com/junk/pictures/gorton.jpg

[ríomhaire]

Not only is Gordon an idiot, he's a fisherman!

http://www.isleepinabox.com/junk/pictures/gorton.jpg
http://smiliesftw.com/!/inoutugh.gif

[Asuka]

Great post and replays Love reading this thread.

[Rizzo]

Me too.

[Nu Zalem]

Very very interesting thread. A lot of good points were brought up, but I think Gordon didn't really have too much of a chioce, rather an ultimatum. Either you kill metrocops/oppressors in order to live to have a chance of surviving or you get killed and kill the rebels morale. It's obvious the G-Man is using Gordon but for what purpose really? It has to be more than just stopping Breen and shutting down the teleporter in the citadel. That's one of my questions...what exactly is the G-Man's goal? I don't think Gordon is a bumbling idiot, it's more of the fact that he's just stuck in a situation he doesn't want to or didn't ask to be in so I find myself agreeing with Samon again, although Darkside did bring up some interesting points that made my eyebrows go in the air.

We all know/typed that if G-Man was so powerful he could've done all the work by himself w/out the use of Gordon. He doesn't work for his 'employers' in HL2 anymore I don't think since he never mentioned them in that game. I'm hoping that the G-Man starts talking in Aftermath very quickly and shed some light on our unstoppable crowbar wielding Gordon Freeman.

Gordon reminds me very much of Solid Snake in Metal Gear Solid (Shadow Moses Incident) about the fact that the two are just pawns. But even if Gordon is a pawn....do you think he can become a player and maybe gain some ground or at least an idea of what's going on? Or possibly confront the G-Man perhaps?

[General Zex]

If we look at Gordon as being the player, as I believe, alot of these questions are answered.

G-man is powerless without Gordon(the player). Think of the G-man's last speech:

Rather than offer you the illusion of free choice, I will take the liberty of choosing for you if and when your time comes around again.

It seems evident that Gordon and G-man may just be the player and Valve respectively. Thinking outside the box, Valve is responsible for "if and when our time comes around again."

I also think it may be of some merit to bring up this portion of the npc_gman.cpp file:

// Purpose: The G-Man, misunderstood servant of the people.

Servant? Certainly that is not a word I would attribute to a god or demigod. However it does skew things a tad, since I wouldn't call Valve a servant of the people either. But the latter is more plausible than the former.

As well, what concern is it of the G-man's if Earth is conquered or even the portal storms were resultant of his prior assignment to Gordon? If G-man is truly an extremely powerful/technologically advanced being, what good is Earth to him?

However, if the G-man is Valve Earth is of mighty concern to him. Gordon Freeman and his trials and tribulations thus become highly important to the G-man if he is indeed Valve's presence in the HL universe.

[Lightice]

Personally, I believe that G-man's ability to manipulate the world around him is extremely limited, even though his ability manifest anywhere is in comparsion practically unlimited. He needs pawns like Gordon to make actual physical actions. The only things he is seen physically manipulating throughout the Half-Lifes are electronic devices and I think he doesn't physically flip switches and press buttons to do this - that wouldn't help in manifesting in TV-sets, in any case.
This, I think is why the monsters ignored him in the original Half-Life - he wasn't really there, at all and the creatures thus couldn't sense him.

In some way I think that he indeed represents Valve, being inside and outside the game at the same time, but I do think, that he has an in-game identity, apart from that. What that could be? Well, the time will tell, as he would undoubtedly say...

[Darkside55]

GORTON FREEMANI love you.

Gordon reminds me very much of Solid Snake in Metal Gear Solid (Shadow Moses Incident) about the fact that the two are just pawns."Gordon! We're not tools of the G-man, or anyone else!"

"We'll see...about that!"

I've thought before about a confrontation between the G-man and Gordon, whether to demand an explanation or to fight him, to try and take his life back. Gordon's too complacent to go for the first option, but brash enough to try the second. It's more of his nature to shoot first and ask questions never (any answers the G-man would reveal to him in either scenario would be completely voluntary, and not at Gordon's behest). I dread fighting the G-man, simply because I know he'd teleport Gordon into a world of pain.

Fourth WallAgain, I personally believe that drawing parallels between the game characters and real-life people/organizations is a bit much (and should only be reserved for the all-knowing vortigaunt), but I must say that you make a compelling argument. The fact that Gordon is supposed to be the player would indeed lend credence to the theory that G-man is a representation of Valve, leading us along and subtly controlling our actions and choices. Whether Valve intentionally drew these parallels, or if it's all just a big coincidence, I wonder.

However, this doesn't explain away the things G-man (or anyone else) says in the context of the HL universe. They have their own important meanings that exist within the boundaries of the gameworld. I'm sure any referrences to the real world are purely for laughs.

Personally, I believe that G-man's ability to manipulate the world around him is extremely limited, even though his ability manifest anywhere is in comparsion practically unlimited. He needs pawns like Gordon to make actual physical actions. The only things he is seen physically manipulating throughout the Half-Lifes are electronic devices and I think he doesn't physically flip switches and press buttons to do this - that wouldn't help in manifesting in TV-sets, in any case.
He has the ability to manipulate physical objects (arming the bomb in OpFor, opening and closing doors, picking debris off of Alyx's jacket), but his ability to manipulate events or situations is another matter entirely...;)

I'm glad everyone's enjoying this thread and it's drawing so much interest. Thanks to all the people who contribute.

[Lightice]

He has the ability to manipulate physical objects (arming the bomb in OpFor, opening and closing doors, picking debris off of Alyx's jacket), but his ability to manipulate events or situations is another matter entirely...;)


The bomb was an electronic device and picking lint from Alyx was just a symbolic gesture.

[Darkside55]

Well, he was actually entering in the code to begin the detonation sequence, and he actually does open and close those doors. I don't believe the lint on Alyx's jacket was symbolic...I think he was really picking something off her coat.

[Lightice]

Well, he was actually entering in the code to begin the detonation sequence

Or that's what it seems...

and he actually does open and close those doors.

With electric locks...

I don't believe the lint on Alyx's jacket was symbolic...I think he was really picking something off her coat.

That we can argue about, but not to any results. In any case, the very action of picking lint off a person's clothes is symbolic, whether anything is really picked, or not.

[Darkside55]

That we can argue about, but not to any results. In any case, the very action of picking lint off a person's clothes is symbolic, whether anything is really picked, or not.
Indeed, we're at a stalemate. :) But you're right, cleaning Alyx off could be symbolism. I say "could" because he might just be being a perfectionist and removing a speck from her, or it could be something deeper than that, like taking care of her (which might explain her mysterious survival of the explosion).

[Nu Zalem]

^^That is another thing to be looked at. How in the hell did she survive that explosion anyway? We know Gordon got teleported into stasis once again, but it baffles me how Alyx survived it unless the G-Man teleported her away as well (which he probably did).

"Gordon! We're not tools of the G-man, or anyone else!"
"We'll see...about that!"

Haha, I like that very much. "Fighting was the only thing..the only thing I was good at Gordon. But at least I always fought for what I believed in..."

Anyway, back on topic, so Darkside, you think that if Gordon tries to combat the G-Man he'll get sent to a dimension of pain, but you also thing that gordon will not try to reason with the G-man to get some kind of explanation out of him. i'm not saying you're wrong, but what is Gordon supposed to do? Sit there and let the G-Man boss him for forever? He must be confused (especially by the end of HL2). I understand he currently works for the G-Man, but given that Gordon is a scientist no ... a human, he's gonna want to know everything correct? But then again, there's a possibility that the G-Man can mislead/lie Gordon and tell him something far from the truth (much like how Colonel misleads Snake on a number of occasions).

"Time, Dr. Freeman? Is it really that time again? It seems as though you only just arrived. You've done a great deal in a small time...span; you've done so well, in fact, that i've recieved some interesting offers for your services. Ordinarily, I wouldn't contemplate them, but these are extraordinary times".

Gordon: "Services...What the hell are you talking about? Answer me!!!"

"I'm sorry Mr. Freeman but I cannot answer that at the moment but...
Rather than offer you the illusion of free choice, I will take the liberty of choosing for you, if and when your time comes round again".

Gordon: "I don't know what you're talking about! What are planning on doing to me anyway? What have you done to Alyx!? Leave her alone! Besides...I just about ran out of time for your crap!"

"I do apologise for what must seem to you an arbitrary imposition, Dr. Freeman; I trust it will make sense in the course of... well, I'm really not at liberty to say.

Gordon: ........

"In the meantime, this is where I get off."


That was just my little thought up scenario of the ending of HL2 speculating that the relationsip between Gordon and G-Man is not very peaceful, that's also why I asked if Gordon would eventually confront the G-Man. but then again I could be very wrong. I'm sure you guys can enlighten me further. Yes, this topic is very addicting and well thought out. Good job Darkside.

[Lightice]

But you're right, cleaning Alyx off could be symbolism. I say "could" because he might just be being a perfectionist and removing a speck from her, or it could be something deeper than that, like taking care of her (which might explain her mysterious survival of the explosion).

Taking care of her...That's something I didn't think about. To me it seemed, that he made a point of shrugging her off as insignifigant - a mere object of interest, rather than a living human being.

In any case, G-Man didn't neccesarily save her. Dr. Kleiner might have interfered, as unlikely as it is, G-Man could have stopped the explosion short (assuming that he is capable of such feats, which I don't, but it's a possibility) for reasons of his own or the very nature of the explosion could have transported Alyx to some safer position, along with random bits of the Citadel.
Even if he did save her, I think that his most likely objective would have been to keep Dr. Freeman grateful to him, supressing his desire to make so many uncomfortable questions and possibly to have a bargaining chip in the future, should Gordon turn against him.

In any case, one thing which originally inspired my theory about insubstantial G-Man was the ending scene of HL2. G-Man appears out of nowhere, walking on thin air and as he appears, he first seems transparent and immaterial projection. Also, if I remember correctly, he makes no sound apart from his speech, before he takes Gordon back to the dark space, where his footsteps are finally heard echoing (hmm...maybe he locked Freeman into some broom-closet :rolleyes: ). Most importantly, there is no sign whatsoever of the typical Half-Life teleportation effects.

[General Zex]

I believe the ending, just is. Imagine trying to explain in Half-Life 3 how anyone survived that explosion? Getting caught up on the semantics as to how they survived would do more harm than good.

The ending just is. They survived because they need to. The lack of answer, really is the answer. It seems to me that Valve has taken a philosophical view with HL2.

While I believe my theory that Gordon is the player, I still believe that Valve has tried actively to fuel these scientific-philosophical-quasireligious discussions purposely.

About the lint on Alyx's jacket, I kinda missed that part in the awe of the moment; seeing this huge explosion stop completely is rather awe inspiring.

I would go with the idea that the G-man could be compassionate for Alyx, taking care of her as has been mentioned before. This could be a subtle reference as to how Alyx survived to be seen again in the expansion.

However, this would also suggest that the G-man is a concrete aspect of the HL2 world; in other words, he is not symbolic of something tangible outside the game, but rather part of the game, as in either being a human, a god or a technologically superior alien.

I'll have to go back to that part of the game to replay it and see how everything unfolds. Maybe then I can give more insight on it.

[Lightice]

I believe the ending, just is. Imagine trying to explain in Half-Life 3 how anyone survived that explosion? Getting caught up on the semantics as to how they survived would do more harm than good.

The ending just is. They survived because they need to. The lack of answer, really is the answer. It seems to me that Valve has taken a philosophical view with HL2.

It is harmful for the narrative causality to just ignore an important piece of the plot, not to mention that it breaks the suspension of disbelief for the player. Saying that they "just survived" would be incredibly stupid - perhaps fit for Doom IV in some campy sense, but completely inappropriate for Half-Life. Neither Gordon nor the player can be kept in dark forever and still expect them to keep interested and motivated.

[Samon]

It would be pretty meh if Alyx was rescued by Gman, something just doesn't seem right. But then, I've always maintained the idea that Gman did not actually stop time itself (because it'd be ludicrous did he do so), and merely altered Gordons perception of time.

[Rizzo]

Come on guys, "Gman is valve", they "just survived becouse they needed to"
NO! Half life is a valve game, and i can agree with the surviving part, but it will be something telling us how. Alyx maybee got teleported away, i mean it was a big reactor powering a teleport. Or the explosion might have been a small one. Becouse the reactor will go up in flames, but we dont know how soon. But there IS still time.

Gman brushing of Alyx jacket, just showing how cool and ignorant gman is, and being emotionless about the situation.


i've recieved some interesting offers for your services. Ordinarily, I wouldn't contemplate them, but these are extraordinary times".
Gman want something, and he cant get it himself, maybee hes people and the combine has some kind of truse, and they cant show doing something against the combine themself. Thats where gordon fits in.
I belive we will get an explentaion to everything. Half life feels like that kind of game. And it better be.

[Darkside55]

Valve will definately provide an explanation to Alyx's survival. While I said that G-man could have rescued her, I personally believe that DOG saved her at the last second. I can imagine him climbing up the citadel, jumping up onto the platform at the moment Gordon is teleported away, and snatching Alyx up. Another scenario might be that the force of the explosion threw her back into the control room, and something as simple as a blast shield--triggered by the explosion--came down and shielded her. Or perhaps some other kind of deus ex explanation, like her simply meeting up with you later and commenting, "When the explosion happened, I blacked out...and then somehow I was here."

On Gordon confronting the G-man, I think I should clarify that I did not mean the G-man would literally teleport Gordon into a painful place; it was a play on "put him in a world of hurt." I meant that if Gordon tried to assault the G-man, he'd get a briefcase to the face and have to contend with the awesome powers I believe the G-man to possess.

And Gordon's situation with the G-man is complex because, while he really must be getting tired of being left in the dark (both literally and figuratively), I'm sure that he's aware of how he's benefitted from being in the G-man's employ, and his constant intervention. Not only has he saved Gordon from certain death twice now, but he is also helping Gordon do what he's been wanting to do for most of his life: assist humanity. Of course, he never thought it'd be like this, but it is what he wanted. So I think that Gordon Freeman realizes that confronting the G-man (at least at this point in time) would be a foolish move.

Now, as for getting information out of him, well, even if he demanded it the G-man wouldn't give it to him. He has no reason to tell Gordon anything more than he does. And while Gordon's probably not OK with that, he's going to hold his tongue anyway. That's just how he is. He gets what information people give him, doesn't bother to ask for more, and acts on what he has. Maybe it's because he understands they're only giving him what he needs and he's fine with that, or perhaps he's just not the kind of guy to speak up and demand more information.

And Samon, I still think the G-man's "manipulating" time, at least in the beginning. He's stepping into one moment in time, where the explosion is frozen. He steps in, sets up his sphere of influence on Gordon, the screen flashes, and they're gone--even though Gordon's still glimpsing that shot in time. Lightice, there's no "typical" teleportation effects because the G-man is using something different. Something that allows him to open a door into (seemingly) any place and time he wants, and isolate it. His technology is very subtle, without the need for any flashy lights and sounds.

[General Zex]

It is harmful for the narrative causality to just ignore an important piece of the plot, not to mention that it breaks the suspension of disbelief for the player. Saying that they "just survived" would be incredibly stupid - perhaps fit for Doom IV in some campy sense, but completely inappropriate for Half-Life. Neither Gordon nor the player can be kept in dark forever and still expect them to keep interested and motivated.

Well, at the end of Half-Life, when the player is given the choice to either work with the G-man or fight him and his armies, I chose the latter.

Valve had no problem rescinding player choice in favor of the former, to make Half-Life 2 correct continuity wise. Something they corrected in Half-Life 2 by this G-man quote:

Rather than offer you the illusion of free choice, I will take the liberty of choosing for you, if and when your time comes round again.

As I said, the ending just is. To explain the ending would make it lose its meaning. Gordon was removed from the Citadel, probably put into stasis, as was the result of Half-Life and will await there until further orders.

Alyx on the other hand... I doubt that Dog could climb up the Citadel in time, especially if time is stopped. Altering Gordon's perception of time is not a sufficient explanation.

First off, if it was only one's perception of time, and not time itself, Gordon would have died without a doubt. Time doesn't stop for anyone, regardless of whether or not your brain says it should.

G-man must be outside of time then, if he is able to manipulate it, unless of course he really is just Valve's self integration into Half-Life 2. The dusting of Alxy's jacket is not G-man's ignorance of the situation. He stopped time. He knew damn well what was going on. The huge ball of flame is quite indicative, no matter who you are, of impending doom.

Not only that, G-man's english is superbly eloquent, albeit a tad monotonous. He is surely not ignorant by any stretch and I'd warrant that genius would be an understatement.

[Darkside55]

Alyx on the other hand... I doubt that Dog could climb up the Citadel in time, especially if time is stopped.
Considering the time Gordon was in the citadel, it's entirely plausible that Dog was climbing his way up the citadel during that time. He would've had to reach the top at the precise moment of Gordon's teleportation--which, as we know, is an all-too often occurrence.

First off, if it was only one's perception of time, and not time itself, Gordon would have died without a doubt. Time doesn't stop for anyone, regardless of whether or not your brain says it should.
"Time stops for only one man." - G-man, Raising the Bar.

G-man must be outside of time then, if he is able to manipulate it...Exactly. I believe he operates outside of both time and space, somewhere where he can directly intervene at any place or moment.

A lot of people have trouble with the "G-man stopping time" scenario because it sounds cliche, and makes him too powerful. They also point out things like how he can go transparent, walk on thin air, and mess with Gordon's psyche: showing him the test chamber in BMRF, the Nova Prospekt outpost, and appearing very large or prominently in Gordon's head during parts of his speeches. This leads me to believe that he really is messing with Gordon's mind, but I still feel he really DID "stop time"; he stepped into a single moment of time and space and extracted him.

[Samon]

I like the idea of DOG climbing up the Citadel, it isn't hard to imagine - DOG goes to great effort to save Alyx, and Robin Walker already mentioned that he helps Gordon and Alyx out early on in the game.

When I said Gordons perception of time, I meant as in he steps in, takes Gordon away but leaves Gordon with the image fixed in his head. The idea of him manipulating time itself is just so...meh. I believe he has absolute control over Gordon, and he is very much manipulating Gordons mind.

[Lightice]

The problem in the rescue scenario by the Dog is, that that explosion appears to be huge, once it really starts off. Big enough to possibly utterly wreck the top levels of the Citadel. While the Dog could propably get up in time, I see no way how he could grab Alyx in the fraction of second he has and get her away from the explosion's reach. Running away from an explosion just doesn't work. The idea about some sort of blast shields has much more merit, IMO.

As for G-Man stopping the time, I think that at the best he could have stepped outside it to lock Gordon in a single, frozen moment. If he could manipulate time as he wishes, he could have taken Combine down by now, by himself, just by arranging a series of timing-related disasters. Ofcourse if you want to give in-game explanations for off-game happenings, you could say that G-Man manipulates the time every time the players loads the game. :rolleyes:

[Rizzo]

What says that the explotion is huge? The blast whould probably knock Alyx down, but why does it have to be enormus enough to blow up the top of the citadel?

I agree with Samon, thats the most likely cenario.
"Time stops for one man" Well Gman is a man of metafors and cryptic spech. :P

Soon we will get the answers. I just hope they wont go all wired with the game. Gman isnt valve more than Gordon and Alyx is, Gman is Gman.

[Samon]

Yes, I find alot of people seem to spruce up the explosion more than it needs to be. It isn't the explosion that ultimately destroys City 17, its whatever the Citadel unleashes due to it being in critical meltdown.

The explosion is probably minimal. I can imagine the explosion blowing out, then sucking back in and exploding its way down the reactor spire. Or something to that effect. :P

[Darkside55]

As for G-Man stopping the time, I think that at the best he could have stepped outside it to lock Gordon in a single, frozen moment.Yes, that's how I believe it happened. And from a sci-fi, teleportation standpoint, it makes a great deal of sense; time and space are linked, and if you have the ability to teleport anywhere, it's plausible to teleport to anywhen.

"Time stops for one man" Well Gman is a man of metafors and cryptic spech.For once, he wasn't being cryptic. He was being completely candid with Gordon Freeman, and literally meant that time will stop for him. "Time stops for only one man, Mr. Freeman," and then he places you in the traincar, where you see everyone around you frozen momentarily, before time resumes. That's when one of the passengers was supposed to remark, "I didn't see you get on."

In retrospect I'm actually glad they took that out. I always thought it sounded a bit cheesy.

The explosion is probably minimal. I can imagine the explosion blowing out, then sucking back in and exploding its way down the reactor spire. Or something to that effect.That's exactly how I always saw it in my head, the explosion sending numerous, concussive blasts down the reactor core. Similar to how the primary weapon on the alien ships in Independence Day went up.

[Samon]

That's exactly how I always saw it in my head, the explosion sending numerous, concussive blasts down the reactor core. Similar to how the primary weapon on the alien ships in Independence Day went up.

Bingo. I'm sure thats enough time for Breen to get away from the Reactor as well, seeing as he is actually in the core.

[Rizzo]

Yes, i realy think Breen survives. It whould be boring if he wasnt in at least episode 1.

[Samon]

I'll be disappointed with episode 1 if Breen isn't in there. He adds so much to the story and creates an interesting conflict as Earths negotiator.

[ríomhaire]

I'll be disappointed with episode 1 if Breen isn't in there. He adds so much to the story and creates an interesting conflict as Earths negotiator.
We'll find out if he's alive at least.

[Rizzo]

He will have turned into a zombie.

[Darkside55]

Because of the chance Breen might live? I suppose that also means you're not going to be buying ANY of the other episodes, not if you want the story to make coherent sense. Great, you're not going to finish the Half-Life story because of a silly reason! (You'll cave in and buy it, don't lie)

Anyway, I will hold to the idea that Breen perished at the end of all that. Although, the fact that his survival was mentioned in the Robin Walker interview, and the picture of him on the life-support system from RtB have me doubting that he died. While I feel it would mean more if he HAD perished--ultimately having died trying to escape from the humanity, which he was trying to protect--it would also be an interesting twist if he did manage to live and once again tried to usurp control...or maybe even change his opinion that humanity needed to be saved, and tell the Combine to wipe us all out. I could see that happening.

"Unfortunately it seems as if my faith in this species was misguided. I had hoped that we could become part of something greater, to achieve that which we had only previously imagined. I now see the errors in my thinking."

[Samon]

Well, you can see him very much alive at the end of HL2. Albiet within the reactor spire itself, but hey. I don't think he'll manage to transform himself into a Combine with time on the Citadel ticking away, but I do wonder if any of the reactor innards effected him...

I'm sure he is alive, it'd be such a waste if he died.

[Rizzo]

On the bumbling idiot matter, and Breen taunting him about that hes not accomplished anything, how about when Mossman is praising his reserch(i have no idea how to spell that.) in black mesa east? "ive been a big fan of yours before you even got to black mesa" or something. Thats gotta mean his a pretty good doctor, capeble of more than flipping a switch.

[Darkside55]

Freeman's prior work was just his further studies at Innsbruck. Visiting fellows are independent researchers who might attend a class or two. It was likely all written research and observations, no actual applications of theoretical physics. He wrote a few fancy papers.

He might be able to put complex concepts down on paper, but once it comes to him actually DOING something, he screws up. The only thing he's good at is making stuff go boom; that's why they gave him a HEV suit, a gun, and told him to stay away from the equipment at BMRF.

[General Zex]

I find it hard to believe that Breen survived. He was nearly in the heart of the explosion, the 'explosion theory' that you surmise would certainly kill him, if the explosions went down the reactor spire, where Breen was rather close to.

As well, the explosion being minimal is wrongly stated as well I feel. If such a matter warranted the stopping of time, by the G-man I'd say the explosion was more than adequate to destroy the entire top of the Citadel.

The sheer energy involved in opening a portal of such magnitude would say its so as well.

We will have to wait until Episode 1 to find out the sheer amount of damage done to the Citadel, but I'd believe it is far more significant than many people give it credit for, which I can only deduce is reasoned by the thought that Alyx couldn't survive without G-man's or DOG's intervention.

Seeing that G-man stopped time, I can't believe that DOG would have made it in time, since you know its stopped, nor would I understand G-man saving Alyx unless he did so only to show Gordon that he understands the human experience. Which I would assume he does because he sent Gordon to 'save' those of City 17.

[_Z_Ryuken]

G-man realizes Gordon and Alyx are a team. I'm willing to bet he set them up at that point where she saved him from a beating.

[UltimaApocalypse]

I believe he is still alive, for plot reasons.

[Dr. Nelly Lemon]

1. I find it hard to believe that Breen survived. He was nearly in the heart of the explosion, the 'explosion theory' that you surmise would certainly kill him, if the explosions went down the reactor spire, where Breen was rather close to.

2. As well, the explosion being minimal is wrongly stated as well I feel. If such a matter warranted the stopping of time, by the G-man I'd say the explosion was more than adequate to destroy the entire top of the Citadel.

3. .... G-man understands the human experience. I would assume he does because he sent Gordon to 'save' those of City 17.

I split up your post into three nice points here.

1. The elevator orb that Breen was in could also have protected him, as he seems to fall down inside it. Some people have also pointed out that if you look closely, he is alive, but this could have been a game error rather than a plot point. Nevertheless, seeing as this is a game, I think there would be a good chance of VALVe wanting him back for plot reasons, as Apocalyspe stated above.

2. I agree that the explosion was large, because Breen says to think of the people below, but I'm not sure about your G-man evidence. G-man may have stopped time simply because Gordon had completed his objective (you'll see this happens in the first game also). Secondly, I don't think it would take much effort to stop time, since he telports all the time and seems to only stop it in Gordon's view.

3. I strongly disagree with this statement. G-man never shows any human emotion as far as I can tell, and all he speaks of is his and his employers' choices for Gordon. As far as I can tell, he acts only to his own personal gain.

[Samon]

that he understands the human experience. Which I would assume he does because he sent Gordon to 'save' those of City 17.

Doubtful. In Aftermath I'd assume Gman is merely acting on one of these new offers presented to him, someone wants City 17 evacuated.

[Rizzo]

Breen tell Gordon to take it easy and think of the people below yes... But thats becouse the ressult of what hes doing is going to be a meltdown. The explosion isnt the "big deal".

[Samon]

Breen knew exactly what would happen if the reactor went into meltdown.

[Rizzo]

Yes... But i was onely pointing out that when Breen told Gordon to think of the people below, he didnt refrer to the explotion that happens when Gman pops in.
Breen was infact refering to the meltdown itself, if Gordon whould go on with destroying the core, the people below could die.

Not would, becouse Gordon will save the day in Ep.1!!!

[imagod284]

Breen may have been claiming that the whole Citadel would be destroyed, but don't you think some of that was a bluff to try to stop Freeman?

[AIDisabled]

I've thought quite the opposite: Gordie knows damn well what he's doing. I like to think that Gordie isn't a righteous, honest, good samaritan, but either knowing or unknowing, he (via Gman, perhaps), is the evil-doer. What we're guiding through in these games isn't a hero, but the anti-hero, perhaps even the Bad Guy.

I hope I didn't ruin your day.

[Samon]

Breen may have been claiming that the whole Citadel would be destroyed, but don't you think some of that was a bluff to try to stop Freeman?

Yes and no. If Gordon knew what would happen, would he have went ahead with it? Possibly. But at the same time, Breen was right wasn't he. He told you it would bring down the Citadel, and in Aftermath thats exactly what happens.

[Darkside55]

Not would, becouse Gordon will save the day in Ep.1!!!
Don't hold your breath. Look at his track record. And if he saved the day, there would be no reason for Episode II, would there? ;)


I've thought quite the opposite: Gordie knows damn well what he's doing. I like to think that Gordie isn't a righteous, honest, good samaritan, but either knowing or unknowing, he (via Gman, perhaps), is the evil-doer. What we're guiding through in these games isn't a hero, but the anti-hero, perhaps even the Bad Guy.

I hope I didn't ruin your day.
Ruin my day? Quite the opposite. :laugh:

While he's not a bad guy, Gordon's pretty close to being an anti-hero, or rather, a failed hero. He tries to help, to do the right thing, but ultimately screws everything up (even worse than it had been) and has to try again. He's not intentionally trying to eff things up, but he knows what he's doing is going to cause more problems. He just doesn't care.

It's an interesting duality: Gordon's moral code renders him incapable of shooting an innocent civilian or a friend, but he'll doom them to alien invasions, city-leveling explosions, and exodus into the wasteland.

[Rizzo]

Breen may have been claiming that the whole Citadel would be destroyed, but don't you think some of that was a bluff to try to stop Freeman?

I didnt say that it was a bluff. I was onely pointing out that Breen was telling Gordon about the Meltdown, and that explosion isnt the end ressult. And if it is... Gordon will need alot of batteri juice to out run that explosion.

[General Zex]

It's an interesting duality: Gordon's moral code renders him incapable of shooting an innocent civilian or a friend, but he'll doom them to alien invasions, city-leveling explosions, and exodus into the wasteland.

Thats easily preventable though: just don't play the game, then Gordon has no choice but to cease these actions ;)

Seriously though, being a hero is about risks, not only for oneself but for others around you. Now I can't really say that Gordon is a true hero, because VALVe puts us in such a position that he really isn't. But anti-hero? Did G-man ever tell Gordon to prevent Breen from teleporting? Not that I recall, but Alyx seemed bent on stopping him.

The mere fact that G-man never once told Gordon what needed to be done, makes him like a hero. Barney, Eli, Alyx and Dr. Kleiner gave him his instructions through out the entire game. Everything Gordon did was the result of orders from the people who lived their day to day lives in City 17.

G-man just put Gordon in the right place at the right time.

[Darkside55]

Keep in mind, anti-hero doesn't literally mean "against heroes" or heroism, just that he has flaws that keep him from being a true hero. He's really an "everyman" archetype, an average guy put into an incredible situation, and he has to act for good. Problem is that he goes about it in the wrong way, thinking he's right.

And a big part of the problem is due to what you said: he follows the orders of the resistance leaders. He doesn't think for himself, and by the time Breen's begging him to stop (during Anticitizen One), he's already too far gone. He can't turn around to Barney and the other rebels and say, "I really should stop and consider this. I DID want to serve mankind."

[Rizzo]

G-man just put Gordon in the right place at the right time.

He puts the right man in the wrong place.

[aarondacosta]

Freeman isn't evil. He just gets lucky...alot and happens to be in the right place at the right time..making himself a hero.

I mean, anyone could have done some of the things he did. Seriously, they aren't difficult.

[Lightice]

I mean, anyone could have done some of the things he did. Seriously, they aren't difficult.

Uhh...Yeah. Because we all know that urban warfare is child's play in which anyone with a gun can mow through endless hordes of enemy troops. Gordon generally wins only, because he has the might of Load Game at his side.

[Rizzo]

Might of load game... lol.
Not everyone could do what gordon did. He defeated a big Alien army and their leader. Thats pretty intense... And just to wake up and have a bigger Alien army aginst him. Gordon is a hero. And not just any hero.

[Glo-Boy]

Gordon Freeman is a bumbling idiot.

You, the player, are Gordon Freeman.


I just had to.

[Rizzo]

Good you did. This thread rocked. Im sad that no one is writing in it anymore.
So lets do it!

[Talyn]

Might of load game... lol.
Not everyone could do what gordon did. He defeated a big Alien army and their leader. Thats pretty intense... And just to wake up and have a bigger Alien army aginst him. Gordon is a hero. And not just any hero.

I have to concur with this. If Gordon hadn't defeated the Nihilanth, the Portal Storms would have still occurred, but would have been worse because the intelligent, relatively organized (and still-enslaved) Vortigaunts would have been at their vanguard, along with those weird bloated floaty-thing controllers.

The Combine still would have homed in on Black Mesa, still would found out how to tunnel into Xen, and still would have invaded Earth, but the Resistance would have been weaker, more scattered and more demoralized because they wouldn't have had their orange-clad hero, their proof that mankind could put the fight to those alien bastards and win. With the possible exception of poor Lazlo and the "get back, Gordon!" guy on the tram approach in HL1, there is no one that Gordon actively harmed during his adventures, and dozens of people whose lives he saved.

And while it's true that various Resistance cells were attacked, shelled, or overrun while those inside were fighting to help or protect Dr. Freeman, every last one of those lamba-emblazoned heroes knew the stakes and did were willing to die in order to get Gordon to where he needed to go. Why? Because he and only he could destroy the Citadel and shut down the Combine's teleporter before an overwhelming alien force came through and wiped out the last traces of freedom and dignity left in the world. The Resistance, though (almost) capable of holding its own against the Vichy-type government of machines, slaves and collaborators, wouldn't have done any better against a full-scale Combine "peacekeeping" effort than the better-equipped, better-organized militaries of Earth did during the Seven-Hours war.

Perhaps Gordon has only pissed the Combine off now, perhaps during Ep1 they will mass the forces in their other cities and annihilate the rest of humanity - but he's fighting against impossible odds, and he's given mankind the chance to die on their feet sooner rather than on their knees later. I'd call that a hero in every definition of the term. Besides, when the other Resistance cells learn that this invincible Achilles is fighting with them again, how well do you think the other Citadels will be able to keep control? Gordon will spark a global revolution, and if mankind will die, it will die free and the Combine won't get another slave-world OR local teleportation for their trouble.

Yes, the destruction of the Citadel will lead to the destruction of City 17 - but all its citizens have already fled or joined the Resistance, who have their own escape routes. C17 was a concentration camp anyways, and I doubt anyone will miss it. "Think of the people below" was nothing more than Breen attempting to take advantage of the human decency that Gordon possessed (though Wallace no longer did) in order to save his own traitorous skin.

[Samon]

Talyn! Talyn!

[Rizzo]

FREEDOOOOOM!

Yeah that was head on the nail Talyn.

[ríomhaire]

I have to concur with this. If Gordon hadn't defeated the Nihilanth, the Portal Storms would have still occurred, but would have been worse because the intelligent, relatively organized (and still-enslaved) Vortigaunts would have been at their vanguard, along with those weird bloated floaty-thing controllers.

The Combine still would have homed in on Black Mesa, still would found out how to tunnel into Xen, and still would have invaded Earth, but the Resistance would have been weaker, more scattered and more demoralized because they wouldn't have had their orange-clad hero, their proof that mankind could put the fight to those alien bastards and win. With the possible exception of poor Lazlo and the "get back, Gordon!" guy on the tram approach in HL1, there is no one that Gordon actively harmed during his adventures, and dozens of people whose lives he saved.

And while it's true that various Resistance cells were attacked, shelled, or overrun while those inside were fighting to help or protect Dr. Freeman, every last one of those lamba-emblazoned heroes knew the stakes and did were willing to die in order to get Gordon to where he needed to go. Why? Because he and only he could destroy the Citadel and shut down the Combine's teleporter before an overwhelming alien force came through and wiped out the last traces of freedom and dignity left in the world. The Resistance, though (almost) capable of holding its own against the Vichy-type government of machines, slaves and collaborators, wouldn't have done any better against a full-scale Combine "peacekeeping" effort than the better-equipped, better-organized militaries of Earth did during the Seven-Hours war.

Perhaps Gordon has only pissed the Combine off now, perhaps during Ep1 they will mass the forces in their other cities and annihilate the rest of humanity - but he's fighting against impossible odds, and he's given mankind the chance to die on their feet sooner rather than on their knees later. I'd call that a hero in every definition of the term. Besides, when the other Resistance cells learn that this invincible Achilles is fighting with them again, how well do you think the other Citadels will be able to keep control? Gordon will spark a global revolution, and if mankind will die, it will die free and the Combine won't get another slave-world OR local teleportation for their trouble.

Yes, the destruction of the Citadel will lead to the destruction of City 17 - but all its citizens have already fled or joined the Resistance, who have their own escape routes. C17 was a concentration camp anyways, and I doubt anyone will miss it. "Think of the people below" was nothing more than Breen attempting to take advantage of the human decency that Gordon possessed (though Wallace no longer did) in order to save his own traitorous skin.
IMO if Nihilanth hadn't died the portal stiorm would never have started (RC and PS are different IMO) adn Earth would have had a massive war on against Xen on its hands. Who knows what the g-man or his employers would do. If Earth wins the Combine would be able to break through to Xen and Humanity would probably end up with even more getting killed by the Combine and perhaps complete assimilation rather than slavery. And if Xen won, we'd be dead...

[Krabjuice]

We, the player, are Gordon Freeman. Therefore, if Nihilanth lived, we died. Our conflict was inevitable because of level design. Thus, victory assured the survival of yourself--as Gordon--who is infinatly more important then the rest of the world.

Priorities people, priorities.

[Rizzo]

Well, try not to think it as a game to friggin much. Its like watcing a movie when someone is preforming Cpr and say: He not actully puting any presure on the chest!!!

Imagination people, imagination.

[Samon]

Yeah but Riomhaire, the portal storms hit Earth the moment Gordon slammed the experiment into the chamber.

[Langolier]

Yeah but Riomhaire, the portal storms hit Earth the moment Gordon slammed the experiment into the chamber.

I've never been too clear on that. Are we sure that's how it happened, or was it afterward?

If the expansion packs are official, then the Resonance Cascade was stopped by nightfall on day one. I think it's worth noting that by that point we didn't see anymore random teleportations into blackmesa. Instead we saw what appeared to be tactical teleportations and even out-right attacks against the HECU and the Science Team.

So... It would seem to me that the Portal Storms came after Nihilanth's defeat.

Unless someone official has said otherwise. In which case I'd like to hear them comment on the expansion packs too. Perhaps it's just a continuity error.