View Full Version : Polar bears drown as ice shelf melts
CptStern
19-12-2005, 06:07 PM
more evidence we're ****ing this planet
SCIENTISTS have for the first time found evidence that polar bears are drowning because climate change is melting the Arctic ice shelf.
The researchers were startled to find bears having to swim up to 60 miles across open sea to find food. They are being forced into the long voyages because the ice floes from which they feed are melting, becoming smaller and drifting farther apart.
source (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1938132,00.html)
if dwindling land mass and scarcity of food doesnt kill them high concentrations of mercury, zinc, cadmium, and selenium will
btw, this could have been posted in the off-topic section but there's too many idiots trolls there ..so I posted it here which has less idiot trolls
Icarusintel
19-12-2005, 06:12 PM
LOL! sorry, it's a funny image
on a serious note, the pollutants certainly are a problem, but there's not a whole lot that can be done about gloabal warming, since it seems to be part of a natural trend
don;t worry, the polar bears will be alright when the next ice age comes around
$kelet0r
19-12-2005, 06:15 PM
^if there's any left
the problem is while global warming is a natural process, we are accelerating faster than even we can adapt to
that's the problem
Bob_Marley
19-12-2005, 06:26 PM
^if there's any left
the problem is while global warming is a natural process, we are accelerating faster than even we can adapt to
that's the problem
Indeed. That seems to be what many people cant grasp about the topic. Whilst we didnt cause it, we are not free from blame as we are accelerating the process to a speed at which little can adapt.
gh0st
19-12-2005, 07:26 PM
maybe peta should give them swimming lessons.
CptStern
19-12-2005, 07:32 PM
maybe you should offer up your body as a floatation device ..oh wait you're so full of shit you'd instantly sink :laugh:
Icarusintel
19-12-2005, 07:40 PM
Indeed. That seems to be what many people cant grasp about the topic. Whilst we didnt cause it, we are not free from blame as we are accelerating the process to a speed at which little can adapt.
But I've never seen anything conclusive to say we could stop it if we were to stop releasing any greenhouse gases or other pollution, so, while we may have accelerated it, I dunno if it's possible to stop it now, or even slow it down
brink's
19-12-2005, 07:41 PM
btw, this could have been posted in the off-topic section but there's too many idiots trolls there ..so I posted it here which has less idiot trolls
maybe you should offer up your body as a floatation device ..oh wait you're so full of shit you'd instantly sink :laugh:
One troll so far stern;)
CptStern
19-12-2005, 07:46 PM
it doesnt count cuz I'm the thread starter ;)
gh0st
19-12-2005, 08:25 PM
maybe you should offer up your body as a floatation device ..oh wait you're so full of shit you'd instantly sink :laugh:
oh wow this is ace material stern, i'd love to see your standup.
Pi Mu Rho
19-12-2005, 08:27 PM
oh wow this is ace material stern, i'd love to see your standup.
It was no less funny than yours.
gh0st
19-12-2005, 08:29 PM
It was no less funny than yours.
hey awesome pi mu rho has something to say. i dont remember putting a stupid laughing smilie at the end of mine or making any attempt to be funny. but apparently that transcends your understanding, so we'll leave it at that.
CptStern
19-12-2005, 08:32 PM
oooh acerbic wit! how will he ever recover from such a stinging blow ...I wasnt trying to be funny ...ok maybe the floatation device thingy ..that was funny
brink's
19-12-2005, 08:50 PM
I love how a ( should be) mild discussion about polar bears/global warming, can turn into a giant bitchfest in 4 posts.
$kelet0r
19-12-2005, 08:52 PM
nah it's more like this
cptstern posts
gh0st replies
http://nexusone.shackspace.com/nuke-the-whales.jpg
CptStern
19-12-2005, 08:52 PM
makes Shens to me! :E
on a serious note, the pollutants certainly are a problem, but there's not a whole lot that can be done about gloabal warming, since it seems to be part of a natural trend
the problem is while global warming is a natural process, we are accelerating faster than even we can adapt to
that's the problem
Whilst we didnt cause it, we are not free from blame as we are accelerating the process to a speed at which little can adapt Wow theres a lot of global warming sceptics in here tonight.
Tell me, do you think that its all just a coincidence that global temperatures are rising during the only industrial period of human civilisation?
How would the global warming sceptics explain this: ...........Researchers who have recently returned from the region found that an area of permafrost spanning a million square kilometres - the size of France and Germany combined - has started to melt for the first time since it formed 11,000 years ago at the end of the last ice age. .............Western Siberia is heating up faster than anywhere else in the world, having experienced a rise of some 3C in the past 40 years. Scientists are particularly concerned about the permafrost, because as it thaws, it reveals bare ground which warms up more quickly than ice and snow, and so accelerates the rate at which the permafrost thaws. http://www.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,12374,1546824,00.html
Not trolling here, I would just like to hear the supposed science that people are relying on for their opinions.
Oh, and Stern, just walk away mate, `e aint worth it.
CptStern
19-12-2005, 09:03 PM
ya I know, fun but untimately not worthit
good points btw
Teh Pwned
19-12-2005, 09:07 PM
Jesus Christ, that only took less than a page to go from enviromentalists to troll catching. :)
Anyway, Its a problem, and not one of the first of its kind. Kind of like how sea turtle populations are depleting because of expanded construction near the sea shores, which causes the hatched baby sea turtles to get confused by the starlight and artificial light and thus wonder off course and get eaten.
But whats the solution?
staticprimer
19-12-2005, 09:32 PM
You know what this means:
We're doomed. (http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0319262/Ss/0319262/DAT3MD1.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0319262)
Glirk Dient
19-12-2005, 09:45 PM
We don't have the data from thousands of years ago on what the temperatures were...so you can't say that the earth warming up has just started. How do you suppose we got out of the ice age without all of these green house gasses we have made to trap heat in the atmosphere? Do you suppose that it was the earths natural path that heats up then freezes and does it all over again?
Teta_Bonita
19-12-2005, 10:21 PM
We don't have the data from thousands of years ago on what the temperatures were...so you can't say that the earth warming up has just started. How do you suppose we got out of the ice age without all of these green house gasses we have made to trap heat in the atmosphere? Do you suppose that it was the earths natural path that heats up then freezes and does it all over again?
It doesn't matter what the temperature was thousands of years ago, if you read the article it says the ice-shelf has been receding more and more over the past two decades.
This calls for some old school evolution!
Raziaar
19-12-2005, 11:07 PM
maybe you should offer up your body as a floatation device ..oh wait you're so full of shit you'd instantly sink :laugh:
If you eat a certain diet... you'll float in that scenario.
But on topic... polar bears drowning. Sad. Why can't the penguins save them like in the cocoa cola commercials? Oh wait...
Ohhh... and in a somewhat serious, someone not way... earth has a natural response to melting ice caps. Ice ages! Snow cones half cost.
Also... people are up in a fit about losing these chunks of glaciers and stuff, right? Well here's a news flash... we've lost a hell of alot more than that coming out of the ice age. Wasn't all of north america covered in a big glacier?
The fact is... people are so concerned about maintaining the status quo, especially where humanity is concerned, like the homes of costal dewelling people, etc. I think thats foolish, cause the earth is going to go through changes like these with or without us, and people need to learn to adapt, not expect to somehow magically stem the tides of change.
jondy
19-12-2005, 11:20 PM
Ice ages! Snow cones half cost.
You'd be better off not being facetious about a problem that could **** us all up in less than a century. The public opinion battle hasn't even been won yet, and only after that happens (most likely when the shit hits the fan) will people sit up and do something
Raziaar
19-12-2005, 11:22 PM
You'd be better off not being facetious about a problem that could **** us all up in less than a century. The public opinion battle hasn't even been won yet, and only after that happens (most likely when the shit hits the fan) will people sit up and do something
Kill us all? I don't think so. Temperatures will fluctuate, ocean levels will rise. Even without man, changes like this have happened to the earth, so why do you feel the need to exercise even MORE dominance over earth to change whatever cycle's its going through to correct itself? It'd be akin to stunting the growth of a child just so he doesn't get big enough to beat you up some day. <chuckles>
short recoil
19-12-2005, 11:56 PM
more evidence we're ****ing this planet
SCIENTISTS have for the first time found evidence that polar bears are drowning because climate change is melting the Arctic ice shelf.
The researchers were startled to find bears having to swim up to 60 miles across open sea to find food. They are being forced into the long voyages because the ice floes from which they feed are melting, becoming smaller and drifting farther apart.
source (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1938132,00.html)
if dwindling land mass and scarcity of food doesnt kill them high concentrations of mercury, zinc, cadmium, and selenium will
btw, this could have been posted in the off-topic section but there's too many idiots trolls there ..so I posted it here which has less idiot trolls
Yeah, we're screwing the planet and will continue to do so as we breed and expand and everyone wants their own mercedes/yank SUV with v8 engine, house with all the latest entertainment using more and more energy and ****ing it up....fruit flown in from israel etc, burning 100ml of keresone for like a ****ing melon.
Even if we stopped now it would be the equivalent of stopping an oil tanker, it would continue to cause damage for 100's of years, and the only way we would stop is if a virus wiped most of us out.
Infact a virus that took out the weaker 75% of the population would be quite a nice gift :laugh:
Raziaar
19-12-2005, 11:59 PM
Its called cancer... and its taking its sweet time.
Although... cancer is a very touchy subject with me ;(
ة الأسئلة الشائع
20-12-2005, 12:07 AM
Yeh, If you have seen the movie ''The Day After Tomarow'' That is a good ex.
of what is going to happen
Raziaar
20-12-2005, 12:09 AM
Yeh, If you have seen the movie ''The Day After Tomarow'' That is a good ex.
of what is going to happen
Except that the events in the day after tomorrow have just about no linking to actual scientific fact.
As someone put, I can't remember who...
"Good movie, bad science"
ة الأسئلة الشائع
20-12-2005, 12:12 AM
Very true but that was the first thing that I could think of, I wish they would know more about that so when it happens people know what to do. Instead of just freezing to death by walking outside.
Glirk Dient
20-12-2005, 01:23 AM
It doesn't matter what the temperature was thousands of years ago, if you read the article it says the ice-shelf has been receding more and more over the past two decades.
Well...if the temperature has been raising at an exponential rate and it is finally getting to be concern then the heating up generally would melt ice. Heat does that. So it is logial that a natural heating up earth would melt ice since it is...well warmer!
CptStern
20-12-2005, 01:53 AM
Yeah, we're screwing the planet and will continue to do so as we breed and expand and everyone wants their own mercedes/yank SUV with v8 engine, house with all the latest entertainment using more and more energy and ****ing it up....fruit flown in from israel etc, burning 100ml of keresone for like a ****ing melon.
Even if we stopped now it would be the equivalent of stopping an oil tanker, it would continue to cause damage for 100's of years, and the only way we would stop is if a virus wiped most of us out.
Infact a virus that took out the weaker 75% of the population would be quite a nice gift :laugh:
yes but that 75% will represent the 3rd world ...who will do the manual labor once they're gone? I'm sure some white collar oil exec is all the sudden going to pick berries for a living ..no the solution isnt to wipe out the weak ..the opposite is true ..the strong are the ones that created the problem in the first place ..the strong should die for the greater good
ة الأسئلة الشائع
20-12-2005, 02:03 AM
If you are noticing every year there are more and more hurrcains, snow storm, rain, and colder and hotter weather, This will get so bad that one day the whole world will be one big hurrcaine with un seen winds and weather, Hail the size of baseballs, tornados left and right. and extreme COLD temps. In some areas, Causing you to freeze to death in less than a second. Of course none of this has happend yet so they can not predict it but we can look at the last ice age and make a modle thing a ma gigger.
Glirk Dient
20-12-2005, 02:05 AM
If you are noticing every year there are more and more hurrcains, snow storm, rain, and colder and hotter weather, This will get so bad that one day the whole world will be one big hurrcaine with un seen winds and weather, Hail the size of baseballs, tornados left and right. and extreme COLD temps. In some areas, Causing you to freeze to death in less than a second. Of course none of this has happend yet so they can not predict it but we can look at the last ice age and make a modle thing a ma gigger.
Yeah...better tell those volcanoes to back off.
short recoil
20-12-2005, 02:08 AM
yes but that 75% will represent the 3rd world ...who will do the manual labor once they're gone? I'm sure some white collar oil exec is all the sudden going to pick berries for a living ..no the solution isnt to wipe out the weak ..the opposite is true ..the strong are the ones that created the problem in the first place ..the strong should die for the greater good
It's a self supplying problem.
As i said before each person wants a house/car/family.
If you remove the weaker 75% the pattern shifts so in the 25% left you still have people working labour and people owning business etc.
And i'm mainly talking about strength of genetics/survival ability (wether "natural" or "modern world" style survival)
An instant solution to overpopulation and pollution.
I'm pretty sure nature will come up with something soon anyway, exagerrated by the way humans live these days.
Seagull
20-12-2005, 02:11 AM
I almost drowned that day! :(
CptStern
20-12-2005, 02:12 AM
yes but without a 3rd world workforce we couldnt sustain ourselves at our current level we'd be forced to either revert to older technologies or come up with new ones ..which again would be limited due to a shortage of workers ..both skilled and unskilled
yes but that 75% will represent the 3rd world ...who will do the manual labor once they're gone? Wtf?
I'm sure some white collar oil exec is all the sudden going to pick berries for a living Err.....Stern, are you ok man?
..the strong are the ones that created the problem in the first place ..the strong should die for the greater good Has someone hijacked your account or something? I mean I would expect something like this from Ghost or Seinfeld, but c`mon .
Anyway, out of character and vaguely white supremecist posts aside, I dont think we need to wipe out 75% of the population. If you want to cull people to save the planet then you need go no further than about ten percent or so.
Just make sure you get rid of the ten percent that contribute 75% of the greenhouse gases.
You know who I`m on about .
CptStern
20-12-2005, 02:22 AM
Wtf?
Err.....Stern, are you ok man?
Has someone hijacked your account or something? I mean I would expect something like this from Ghost or Seinfeld, but c`mon .
yes but dont look it at that way, that's not what I'm saying SAJ ..it's unforetunately the harsh reality ..the 3rd world picks the cotton, weaves the textile, the first world makes the clothes to sell to the 1st world the 3rd world reaps none of the benefits
Anyway, out of character and vaguely white supremecist posts aside, I dont think we need to wipe out 75% of the population.
actually it's the opposite ..read it again, I'm advocating wiping out whitey not the other way around. I'm white and live in the 1st world I'm advocating killing myself/ourselves because we are the problem
short recoil
20-12-2005, 02:28 AM
You know who I`m on about .
http://www.treehugger.com/files/gas-guzzler-01.jpg
CptStern
20-12-2005, 02:32 AM
I'm surprised you wouldnt like a gas guzzler short recoil
short recoil
20-12-2005, 02:36 AM
I'm surprised you wouldnt like a gas guzzler short recoil
Nah, i want to get a turbo diesel i can run on bio fuel.
Volvo 740/940......eco friendly car but still a tough car.
I would never get one of those bright green plastic "eco warrior" pod car things.
EDIT: I think the main reason i'd go for the bio fuel idea is more of a selfish reason, people with petrol cars are fvcked if the garages are dry (remember uk fuel crisis?) with a bio fuel equipped diesel i could simply use some vegetable oil, central heating oil (mixed with normal diesel) etc.
actually it's the opposite ..read it again, I'm advocating wiping out whitey not the other way around. I'm white and live in the 1st world I'm advocating killing myself/ourselves because we are the problem
My really dumb post alert went off when I saw that. arent you the one who always posts about how bad killing is and how the US shouldnt fight wars and you are advocating genocide and killing off millions/billions of innocent people...
dream431ca
20-12-2005, 02:41 AM
OH COME ON!! Everybody has to start panicing because polar bears died because of ice melting.
NEWSFLASH!!!! The earth is constantly changing. There are earthquakes everyday, Volcanic activity everyday...and ICE MELTING everyday.
Global warming is not caused by humans...but there is a theory...and let me be clear..THEORY!! that Humans are accelerating global warming.
But I believe it's too late to do anything. Even if you stopped all the emissions around the whole world right now, it would change NOTHING, because the emissions stay in the atmosphere for at least 100 years.
You have nothing to worry about until 4000 feet fire columns start shooting out of the bermuda triangle near Florida, (because of the high concentration of solid methane just underneath the ocean floor). Then you can make this a big deal.
short recoil
20-12-2005, 02:42 AM
My really dumb post alert went off when I saw that. arent you the one who always posts about how bad killing is and how the US shouldnt fight wars and you are advocating genocide and killing off millions/billions of innocent people...
Millions of people will die due to climate change anyway so, it's a case of striking a balance.
You know they cull some animals to actually help them survive? some animals will reproduce too fast and use up all food supply if not controlled and all die.
Raziaar
20-12-2005, 02:43 AM
actually it's the opposite ..read it again, I'm advocating wiping out whitey not the other way around. I'm white and live in the 1st world I'm advocating killing myself/ourselves because we are the problem
You're white? Your picture looked like you were more of a middle eastern descent.
And by the way, I object to your discriminatory usage of 'whitey'.
CptStern
20-12-2005, 02:44 AM
yes I'm white, bad lighting ..or maybe it was my outfit :E
Raziaar
20-12-2005, 02:48 AM
yes I'm white, bad lighting ..or maybe it was my outfit :E
It was actually more your skin color... I can't find the thread again. But still... your racism against whites is pretty rediculous. "Whitey" is an ethnic slur just like any other.
short recoil
20-12-2005, 02:56 AM
It was actually more your skin color... I can't find the thread again. But still... your racism against whites is pretty rediculous. "Whitey" is an ethnic slur just like any other.
Well not really mate, he was refering to a certain type of white person.
...it wouldn't be including the poor whites of central europe etc.
It's like you can take the piss out of "black gangstas" without being really racist....your taking the piss out of how they act not their race...even if you use the word "nigga"
Raziaar
20-12-2005, 02:57 AM
Well not really mate, he was refering to a certain type of white person.
...it wouldn't be including the poor whites of central europe etc.
It's like you can take the piss out of "black gangstas" without being really racist....your taking the piss out of how they act not their race...even if you use the word "nigga"
Still... the term itself is officially classified as a derogatory racial slur. And yes, I'm pretty sensitive about it from being called it often where I live.
CptStern
20-12-2005, 02:58 AM
It was actually more your skin color... I can't find the thread again. But still... your racism against whites is pretty rediculous. "Whitey" is an ethnic slur just like any other.
racism against whites? I'm white
Raziaar
20-12-2005, 03:01 AM
racism against whites? I'm white
<laughs> And that matters how? There's people all ethnicities that disparage their own race.
But if you didn't mean it in such a way, use another term instead of the one you chose. And yeah, i'm probably over-reacting about it, but still.
short recoil
20-12-2005, 03:02 AM
Stop bloody over-reacting.
OH COME ON!! Everybody has to start panicing because polar bears died because of ice melting.
NEWSFLASH!!!! The earth is constantly changing. There are earthquakes everyday, Volcanic activity everyday...and ICE MELTING everyday.
Global warming is not caused by humans...but there is a theory...and let me be clear..THEORY!! that Humans are accelerating global warming. Well Im glad you brought that up, as the decline of the polar bears - ironically - may be the final proof of anthropogenic global warming (man-made climate change to you and I ).
How so? Well consider the polar bear is adapted to its enviroment(hands off those keyboards, creationists) and must have been around for at least an ice-age or two.
It then follows that if sudden climate change and the subsequent shift in its enviroment is something that it cannot adapt to, then it must be unprecedented in the existance of that species and not just part of a pattern of natural climate change.
NEWSFLASH: Its not a natural cycle, its effects are not limited to the cute fluffy animals and it is going to f*** us all up !
edit: added more bold goodness.
Raziaar
20-12-2005, 03:13 AM
Stop bloody over-reacting.
Yes sir.
CptStern
20-12-2005, 03:39 AM
<laughs> And that matters how? There's people all ethnicities that disparage their own race.
But if you didn't mean it in such a way, use another term instead of the one you chose. And yeah, i'm probably over-reacting about it, but still.
yes you are, I'm not retracting what I said ...can we get back to the polar bears now?
Danimal
20-12-2005, 03:40 AM
D:
Poor bears. ;_;
EDIT: Frowning.
CptStern
20-12-2005, 03:43 AM
D:
? is that a guy frowning or a guy wearing a teacup on his head cuz I never could tell :E
Its the universal symbol for "too much coffee man (http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/t/toomuchcoffeeman.jpg)" of course.
Glirk Dient
20-12-2005, 03:59 AM
It's a self supplying problem.
As i said before each person wants a house/car/family.
If you remove the weaker 75% the pattern shifts so in the 25% left you still have people working labour and people owning business etc.
And i'm mainly talking about strength of genetics/survival ability (wether "natural" or "modern world" style survival)
An instant solution to overpopulation and pollution.
I'm pretty sure nature will come up with something soon anyway, exagerrated by the way humans live these days.
Actually poor people generally have better survivability than rich people. Poor people don't always eat the cleanest/sanitary food...don't have all kinds of medicine. So their immune system builds up to protect them. So perhaps we would have the labourers left and none of the management. I hereby declare myself president of all companies.
dream431ca
20-12-2005, 04:07 AM
Well Im glad you brought that up, as the decline of the polar bears - ironically - may be the final proof of anthropogenic global warming (man-made climate change to you and I ).
How so? Well consider the polar bear is adapted to its enviroment(hands off those keyboards, creationists) and must have been around for at least an ice-age or two.
It then follows that if sudden climate change and the subsequent shift in its enviroment is something that it cannot adapt to, then it must be unprecedented in the existance of that species and not just part of a pattern of natural climate change.
NEWSFLASH: Its not a natural cycle, its effects are not limited to the cute fluffy animals and it is going to f*** us all up !
edit: added more bold goodness.
Like I said, people get scared when they hear news like this. But I see it as a change..that's it. If the earth is going to become a burning fireball...then so be it. And humans are accelerating global warming. It's happened before and Will happen again. You gotta stop worrying cause there is nothing we can do about it. That's life on a living planet. Get used to it. And about that adaptation thing...life always adapts no matter what. People are so scared of change.
And it IS a natural effect..it's happened at least 6 times before in the earth's history. Only this time...it's gonna be longer and a lot more painful. As I said before..too late to change now.
CptStern
20-12-2005, 04:17 AM
Its the universal symbol for "too much coffee man (http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/t/toomuchcoffeeman.jpg)" of course.
hey I remember that comic book from the early 90's
Like I said, people get scared when they hear news like this. But I see it as a change..that's it. If the earth is going to become a burning fireball...then so be it. And humans are accelerating global warming. It's happened before and Will happen again. You gotta stop worrying cause there is nothing we can do about it. That's life on a living planet. Get used to it. And about that adaptation thing...life always adapts no matter what. People are so scared of change.
And it IS a natural effect..it's happened at least 6 times before in the earth's history. Only this time...it's gonna be longer and a lot more painful. As I said before..too late to change now.
I would agree with everything you just wrote - if(and only if) there was a natural reason for the increase in greenhouse gases.
If the the reasons for man-made climate change were connected with the very survival of homo sapiens, then there would be an arguement for carrying on as we are doing.
But the sad fact is our survival isnt dependant on our emissions (quite possibly the opposite) and we can do something about it, right now.
Stern; hes still doing them now, read them online at http://www.tmcm.com/
CptStern
20-12-2005, 04:34 AM
Stern; hes still doing them now, read them online at http://www.tmcm.com/
ah great ...hehe funny cuz it's true (http://www.tmcm.com/comics/webcomics/tmcm051205) ..except the star trek part
dream431ca
20-12-2005, 04:42 AM
I would agree with everything you just wrote - if(and only if) there was a natural reason for the increase in greenhouse gases.
If the the reasons for man-made climate change were connected with the very survival of homo sapiens, then there would be an arguement for carrying on as we are doing.
But the sad fact is our survival isnt dependant on our emissions (quite possibly the opposite) and we can do something about it, right now.
Stern; hes still doing them now, read them online at http://www.tmcm.com/
Let me explain the natural reasons so we can close this argument.
Underneath the oceans there are these deposits of solid methane called methane hydroxide. When the ocean gets warm enough, these methane deposits turn into methane gas and rise to the surface of the ocean and head on into the atmosphere. Methane is a much more effective greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, about 300% more effecient keeping the heat in the atmosphere.
When some methane is released it heats up the earth a little bit, that heating up causes more methane to be released, and then more is released and so on, creating an effect that is similar to how an atomic bomb works (when one neutron strikes an atom the atom breaks and then 2 more neutrons are created which strike other atoms causing more neutrons to be released and so on).
When there is enough heat to heat up the ocean to a specific temprature, the methane starts to really come up and starts to warm up the earth tremendously. It gets so intense, and so much methane is release at once, that when all that methane hits the oxygen in the air, it bursts in the flames. Scientists believe, in the past, that there were 4000 feet columns of flames caused by the methane gas, shooting out of the ocean.
We are heading towards that point. Humans are releasing millions of tons of carbion dioxide into the atmosphere, the earth warms up a little bit, the methane starts to release, causing a reaction that cannot be stopped. It's already begun and will continue until the global warming effect peaks at it's maxium. Global warming does occur by itself...we humans are just helping it to arrive faster than it would otherwize...but it's still a natural thing.
Let me explain the natural reasons so we can close this argument.
Underneath the oceans there are these deposits of solid methane called methane hydroxide. When the ocean gets warm enough, these methane deposits turn into methane gas and rise to the surface of the ocean and head on into the atmosphere. Methane is a much more effective greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, about 90% more effecient keeping the heat in the atmosphere.
When some methane is released it heats up the earth a little bit, that heating up causes more methane to be released, and then more is released and so on, creating an effect that is similar to how an atomic bomb works (when one neutron strikes an atom the atom breaks and then 2 more neutrons are created which strike other atoms causing more neutrons to be released and so on).
When there is enough heat to heat up the ocean to a specific temprature, the methane starts to really come up and starts to warm up the earth tremendously. It gets so intense, and so much methane is release at once, that when all that methane hits the oxygen in the air, it bursts in the flames. Scientists believe, in the past, that there were 4000 feet columns of flames caused by the methane gas, shooting out of the ocean.
We are heading towards that point. Humans are releasing millions of tons of carbion dioxide into the atmosphere, the earth warms up a little bit, the methane starts to release, causing a reaction that cannot be stopped. It's already begun and will continue until the global warming effect peaks at it's maxium. Global warming does occur by itself...we humans are just helping it to arrive faster than it would otherwize...but it's still a natural thing. Setting fire to a house is not same thing as a house spontaniously combusting.
dream431ca
20-12-2005, 04:49 AM
Setting fire to a house is not same thing as a house spontaniously combusting.
That statement should be read: Setting fire to a house is not the same thing as setting a fire to a house with fire accelerant in it. Humans are just acceleating a naturally occuring event, that would happen anyway, even if humans were not here, it would just take longer to occur.
No I think the analogy is pretty much spot on.
Just because the house has the potential to burn, it doesnt follow that lighting a match to it makes the act of arson natural.
Semantics aside, just because in theory it could happen naturally doesnt make it ok.
Look at it this way; the sun will turn into a giant in x-billion years and burn up the earth. I think we would be pretty pissed if we caused that to happen tomorrow.
dream431ca
20-12-2005, 05:12 AM
No I think the analogy is pretty much spot on.
Just because the house has the potential to burn, it doesnt follow that lighting a match to it makes the act of arson natural.
Semantics aside, just because in theory it could happen naturally doesnt make it ok.
Look at it this way; the sun will turn into a giant in x-billion years and burn up the earth. I think we would be pretty pissed if we caused that to happen tomorrow.
Well..humans have a very strong impact on the earth...all that I'm saying is the warming of the earth will happen it really doesn't matter how fast it comes, it's gonna happen...but I agree we should decrease our emissions, so that day can be pushed back...and for the health of the humans and the animals.
The sun thing is a very funny point. But goes far beyond the bounds of global warming. It was still funny to think of though.
Well..humans have a very strong impact on the earth...all that I'm saying is the warming of the earth will happen it really doesn't matter how fast it comes, it's gonna happen...but I agree we should decrease our emissions, so that day can be pushed back...and for the health of the humans and the animals. Agreed, now bed calls and I cannot resist its siren`s call.
Vigilante
20-12-2005, 05:49 AM
maybe peta should give them swimming lessons.
I thought polar bears already knew how to swim. Maybe peta isn't doing their job...
jondy
20-12-2005, 08:59 AM
Maybe peta isn't doing their job...
Stop the presses! :D
gh0st
20-12-2005, 09:05 AM
i would just like to object to the use of the word "nigga" that was used in this thread. though i am not black it surely offends them.
i seem to recall ennui making quite a big deal out of it when i said it - "even jokingly".
Pi Mu Rho
20-12-2005, 09:05 AM
hey awesome pi mu rho has something to say. i dont remember putting a stupid laughing smilie at the end of mine or making any attempt to be funny. but apparently that transcends your understanding, so we'll leave it at that.
Oh please, spare me your attempts at trying to take some kind of intellectual high ground. Your comment was intended as a "joke". Or are you really trying to say that you genuinely think that PETA should give the polar bears swimming lessons? Please say that's what you think.
Thanks for calling me "awesome" by the way. I wouldn't usually mind, but your hero-worship makes me feel a little uncomfortable.
jondy
20-12-2005, 09:07 AM
Kill us all? I don't think so. Temperatures will fluctuate, ocean levels will rise. Even without man, changes like this have happened to the earth, so why do you feel the need to exercise even MORE dominance over earth to change whatever cycle's its going through to correct itself? It'd be akin to stunting the growth of a child just so he doesn't get big enough to beat you up some day. <chuckles>
But that's a flawed analogy; what we're doing (*intend do do) is damage control on an acceleration caused by our CO2 production. There's nothing 'stunting' about reducing CO2 emissions.
Everyone making the point that we're simply bringing closer an inevitability needs to look at their standing a different way; you've accepted that climate change is happening, but fail to understand that our intervention could accelerate it to an extent that we might not survive
Raziaar
20-12-2005, 09:42 AM
But that's a flawed analogy; what we're doing (*intend do do) is damage control on an acceleration caused by our CO2 production. There's nothing 'stunting' about reducing CO2 emissions.
Everyone making the point that we're simply bringing closer an inevitability needs to look at their standing a different way; you've accepted that climate change is happening, but fail to understand that our intervention could accelerate it to an extent that we might not survive
The reason we're thinking about global pollution, you gotta admit, mainly stems from the fact that we're trying to save our own hides... not the earth.
And no, I haven't failed to understand that our pollutions accelerate it. I've already said this in this thread, go back and read.
The earth would be going through these changes very likely without us, just at a different point in history, and perhaps to a lesser severity, but the main reason we want to slow or stop the cycle, is because we're selfish, not because we have some deep, great respect for the earth.
The majority of people anyways.
kirovman
20-12-2005, 11:30 AM
There's nothing wrong with saving the Earth for purely selfish reasons.
I postulate that every action that anyone does is selfish.
However, stopping global warming by reducing emissions is a lot less selfish than polluting the atmosphere to the point where everything dies out.
Raziaar
20-12-2005, 11:37 AM
There's nothing wrong with saving the Earth for purely selfish reasons.
I postulate that every action that anyone does is selfish.
However, stopping global warming by reducing emissions is a lot less selfish than polluting the atmosphere to the point where everything dies out.
And I agree... protecting the earth is a noble cause and something we should actively pursue. I certainly don't like living in smog infested cities where the pollution distorts the atmosphere and the sun's rays into an unnatural appearance.
However... changing temperatures and rising sea levels are less troubling for me than the thick, hazy pollution I have to breathe in every day.
kirovman
20-12-2005, 11:50 AM
Yeah, I'm quite glad I don't live in a smoggy place, I've been to cities like that, it's terrible.
Interesting quote out of Civ 4:
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
Ren.182
20-12-2005, 12:23 PM
It's going to get rather crowded when the waters start to rise... 6.5 billion people all heading for the higher ground...
jondy
20-12-2005, 02:48 PM
The earth would be going through these changes very likely without us, just at a different point in history, and perhaps to a lesser severity, but the main reason we want to slow or stop the cycle, is because we're selfish, not because we have some deep, great respect for the earth.
The majority of people anyways.
Believe me, I'm no proponent of some deep respect for the earth, I just want generations to come not to get ****ed in the ass by the mess we made.
oh wow this is ace material stern, i'd love to see your standup.
Actually, I have to agree with stern, you'd probably sink.
ة الأسئلة الشائع
20-12-2005, 04:38 PM
When the waters start to rise you will find me in the top of the washington monument. Which is a hour away from me so I better drive fast!
el Chi
20-12-2005, 04:48 PM
so I posted it here which has less idiot trollsSince when!?
1. There's nothing wrong with saving the Earth for purely selfish reasons.
2. I postulate that every action that anyone does is selfish.
3. However, stopping global warming by reducing emissions is a lot less selfish than polluting the atmosphere to the point where everything dies out.1. Yes. Almost any reason's good enough.
2. Noes. But that's a whole other debate.
3. Yes yes oh yay.
OH COME ON!! Everybody has to start panicing because polar bears died because of ice melting.
NEWSFLASH!!!! The earth is constantly changing. There are earthquakes everyday, Volcanic activity everyday...and ICE MELTING everyday.
Global warming is not caused by humans...but there is a theory...and let me be clear..THEORY!! that Humans are accelerating global warming.
But I believe it's too late to do anything. Even if you stopped all the emissions around the whole world right now, it would change NOTHING, because the emissions stay in the atmosphere for at least 100 years.
You have nothing to worry about until 4000 feet fire columns start shooting out of the bermuda triangle near Florida, (because of the high concentration of solid methane just underneath the ocean floor). Then you can make this a big deal.
No offense, mate but you've got it all wrong.
Earthquakes and volcanic activity is not attributable to our own wanton pillaging of the Earth's resources to the point where we start to do severe damage to the planet and everything in it.
Denying global Warming is a severely misguided stance to take. It is a scientifically observable process happening to the planet every day, and every day it is getting worse and every day people deny it in face of the facts. It is not some bizarre theory that has been plucked from the air. It's not a matter of scientists clutching at straws whilst claiming they've got bricks. There's a lot of evidence for it.
Yes it's a theory, but it's a theory with a lot more evidence than most and it stands up to so many counter-arguments.
Besides which, wouldn't it be better to err on the side of caution and say - maybe we are causing it, maybe we aren't, but better safe than sorry. Plus, if we keep going the way we are, we're depleting natural resources at a rate whereby seeking clean alternatives is not only sensible, but practically necessary.
And finally, saying there's no point bothering trying to stop it all now "because the emissions stay in the atmosphere for at least 100 years" is even more misguided. If we stop now, then it would get gradually better over that 100 year period, if we carry on, it gets increasingly worse. Your logic here is deeply flawed. It's not unlike saying:
"Well, this heroine's not going to do me much good, so I may as well take even more."
Psychism
21-12-2005, 09:12 AM
I didn't read the entire thread so what I'm saying may have already been covered but I'll try and put this to people gently
Humans have little to no effect at all on the planets functions we do kill other species on a regular basis but that doesn't change the planet global warming has happened at minimum 6 times prior to this time it's a constant cycle earth gets hot earth freezes earth gets hot again so on so forth whether humans exist or not it does this now for peoples arguements on humans causing it to accelerate... I don't know how to refute this because you probably won't listen but I'll try humans have done nothing at all until the last 200 years (industrial revolution) thats when we started producing noteable amounts of pollution and to be realistic we've only produced noteable amounts for about 100 years now in that time we have produced almost the amount of damage to the atmosphere that a average sized volcanic eruption produces in 1 second so... we've produced 1 seconds worth of damage to the atmosphere... how exactly does this vastly accelerate natural occurances? thats rhetorical because it doesn't... at all... in any way... the reason we think global warming has rapidly increased in the last 10 years is the same reason heated water does absolutely nothing until just before it starts to boil
I've decided to add a list of things you actually sholud be worrying about.
the east coast getting hit by a 500 foot wall of water because the volcanic islands off it's coast are having major landslides so if one were to erupt in the next 5 years you would have half an island falling into the ocean causing a 300-600 foot wall of water to hit the majority of the east coast
inland tsunamis caused by landslides turning lakes into 300-600 foot waves. (as witnessed in Alaska)
the magnetosphere is "dying" we don't know why most people don't even know what it is or does but we do know as the moon gets farther away from earth each year the magnetosphere gets weaker originally we thought the magnetosphere was solely controlled by the planets core which we think is made of iron the new theory is the magnetosphere is caused by the earths core and greatly strengthened by the earths underground water supply being pulled around the earth by the moon (anyone not aware water is magnetic)
humans are running out of resources, coal supplies will be gone within 200 years, oil supplies will be gone within 30 years, theres simply none of either left that we don't already know about, natural gas is still available but becoming harder to find no current estimates on when major amounts will run out but it's likely to become much more expensive world wide due to the shortage
we are researching mars... a dead planet that has always been dead and likely always will be dead we should be researching a planet with a magnetosphere or at least one with enough gravity to hold water on it's surface mars has neither of these... no magnetosphere + no water = no life ever
Sparta
21-12-2005, 06:44 PM
Ghost, Stern, why do you guys even bother posting in here anymore? We all know what you're gonna say. It always goes like this
CptStern: "America sucks eh"
Ghost: "You suck"
CptStern: "America still sucks eh"
Ghost: "Canada sucks"
Rinse and repeat, then try again tomorrow or until a new thread is started.
With that said, i hate Andrew Bolt. He's a columnist for the biggest paper down here in Australia and he's very right-wing and aggressive in his arguments. Always a good read though, even if he is slightly sociopathic
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/sectionindex1/0,5442,dhs_andrewbolt%5ETEXT%5Eheraldsun,00.html
Oh yeah, and the human race is awesome at destroying everything we're given aren't we.
CptStern
21-12-2005, 06:51 PM
no one is forcing you to read it
Raziaar
21-12-2005, 07:00 PM
no one is forcing you to read it
Lies! Powerful, overwhelming, world obliterating lies!
CptStern
21-12-2005, 07:08 PM
read it now! or else!!! /me shakes fist in general direction of Raziaar
Sparta
21-12-2005, 07:14 PM
no one is forcing you to read it
Oh but its always entertaining. You know, like World of Warcraft, same thing over and over again but its always great.
I think its the meds i'm on.
CptStern
21-12-2005, 07:21 PM
ya probably ;)
just think of it as a battle between good and evil ..I'm good and gh0st is ..well ...the devil's cabana boy
Max35
21-12-2005, 08:17 PM
actually it's the opposite ..read it again, I'm advocating wiping out whitey not the other way around. I'm white and live in the 1st world I'm advocating killing myself/ourselves because we are the problem
I'm sure even if whitey was wiped off of the map so to speak, the 3rd world would rise up and create just as much problems. Without contest, these civilizations will start expanding as well.
Teh Pwned
21-12-2005, 09:12 PM
Well, I'm up for wiping out all humans and letting the penguins rule. And they also look suave anyway.
Max35
21-12-2005, 10:02 PM
Penguins rock, except they only have sex once a year (I think so, anyway). That has to be a little hard to bear.
Teh Pwned
23-12-2005, 01:40 AM
Nah, they just got thier priorities straight.
I'm advocating wiping out whitey
screw you stern!!!
*waves middle fingers at sterns post*
I don't give a crap if your white or not, Im offended by the post and I think this kind of bullshit should not be allowed to be posted on hl2.net. Of course if someone joked about the holocaust they would be banned or flamed. Im sick of this double standards BS
So you want to kill me because of my skin color? What a racist asshole. You sir may shove a tennis ball up your ass. Here
*hands stern a tennis ball*
CptStern
24-06-2006, 05:18 AM
yaddayaddayadda ..relax I'm entitled to make fun of myself quit being so anal
Ennui
24-06-2006, 05:21 AM
What the hell? This thread is more than half a year old :|
sorry for the bump but I just saw the post...and it just pissed me off so much I had to make a new post
Ennui
24-06-2006, 05:38 AM
Okay.. but let's leave it alone
CptStern
24-06-2006, 05:39 AM
"it's whitey" <softshoe tapdance> "just whitey" <more softshoe> "whitey Mcwhiiiiiite" <big finish> "yaaaaaaa!"
what?
clarky003
24-06-2006, 06:18 AM
okay if this isnt going to be locked, prepare for a topic related hijack.
Our solutions are already on the table, its simply time to listen, learn for ourselves, and dethrone the present barons who purposefully and knowingly polute this planet to maintain the economic status quo when other viable replacement options are there to be had.
The very thing that may drown us, may save us.
This was aired in 1995 on a program called equinox on british TV, similar to horizon it was one of the most popular documentary series ever made. I would urge that people watch all of this.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7462861704495828104
operative x
24-06-2006, 06:53 AM
Let me explain the natural reasons so we can close this argument.
Underneath the oceans there are these deposits of solid methane called methane hydroxide. When the ocean gets warm enough, these methane deposits turn into methane gas and rise to the surface of the ocean and head on into the atmosphere. Methane is a much more effective greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide, about 300% more effecient keeping the heat in the atmosphere.
When some methane is released it heats up the earth a little bit, that heating up causes more methane to be released, and then more is released and so on, creating an effect that is similar to how an atomic bomb works (when one neutron strikes an atom the atom breaks and then 2 more neutrons are created which strike other atoms causing more neutrons to be released and so on).
When there is enough heat to heat up the ocean to a specific temprature, the methane starts to really come up and starts to warm up the earth tremendously. It gets so intense, and so much methane is release at once, that when all that methane hits the oxygen in the air, it bursts in the flames. Scientists believe, in the past, that there were 4000 feet columns of flames caused by the methane gas, shooting out of the ocean.
We are heading towards that point. Humans are releasing millions of tons of carbion dioxide into the atmosphere, the earth warms up a little bit, the methane starts to release, causing a reaction that cannot be stopped. It's already begun and will continue until the global warming effect peaks at it's maxium. Global warming does occur by itself...we humans are just helping it to arrive faster than it would otherwize...but it's still a natural thing.
And how does an Ice Age emerge from this exactly?
Ome_Vince
24-06-2006, 07:01 AM
"it's whitey" <softshoe tapdance> "just whitey" <more softshoe> "whitey Mcwhiiiiiite" <big finish> "yaaaaaaa!"
what?
Arent you white aswell :smoking:
*looks at avatar*
:D
Sulkdodds
24-06-2006, 11:22 AM
I think all whites should be discriminated against. Oh wait!
If only resurrecting extinct species were this easy. :(
If only resurrecting extinct species were this easy. :(
You've obviously not seen that documentary.........Jurassic Park. :thumbs:
Javert
26-06-2006, 01:24 PM
maybe you should offer up your body as a floatation device ..oh wait you're so full of shit you'd instantly sink :laugh:
LOL. Good lord that was a loud laugh, hope my neighbors didn't hear that.
On the other hand, we may have to resort feeding these polar bears lest they become endangered, which would cost us more in having to rehabilitate their numbers.
Solaris
26-06-2006, 03:23 PM
This threads....
Seriously, is zeus searching the forum for Author:Captian Stern Keyword: White ??
This is the secound thread he's said this. You're really just looking for a fight, being offended at a white person saying anti-white remarks is just stupid, you're trying to make yourself offended. Quit it.
I don't give a damn if he's white or not...a lot of people are racist to their own race, doesn't mean I want to hear it and that's basically what I told him. If it meant I had to dig for an old topic to do it in then that's what I had to do.
Solaris
26-06-2006, 03:34 PM
I don't give a damn if he's white or not...a lot of people are racist to their own race, doesn't mean I want to hear it and that's basically what I told him. If it meant I had to dig for an old topic to do it in then that's what I had to do.
Why now?
And do you really think Stern is a racist? No, of course you don't. You're just looking for a fight.
CptStern
26-06-2006, 03:38 PM
I don't give a damn if he's white or not...a lot of people are racist to their own race, doesn't mean I want to hear it and that's basically what I told him. If it meant I had to dig for an old topic to do it in then that's what I had to do.
I really dont have to justify myself to you so just give it a rest man ..it's really getting old
Javert: I'm glad someone found it funny :thumbs: (I had forgotten I had said that)
Sulkdodds
26-06-2006, 04:23 PM
I don't give a damn if he's white or not...a lot of people are racist to their own race, doesn't mean I want to hear it and that's basically what I told him. If it meant I had to dig for an old topic to do it in then that's what I had to do.Did it occur to you that he was taking the piss?
CptStern
26-06-2006, 04:27 PM
Did it occur to you that he was taking the piss?
hmmmmmmm ..like this? (http://www.hillquest.com/images/DogPiss.jpg)
I'm joking, lighten up zeus
Sulkdodds
26-06-2006, 04:30 PM
Yes, like that. Taking a piss.
Taking a piss on the rights of law-abiding white Americans everywhere, that is!
jondy
26-06-2006, 07:37 PM
Taking a piss on the rights of law-abiding white Americans everywhere, that is!
'You've just urinated on the part that forbids cruel and unusual punishment!'
Spectre01
12-07-2006, 04:29 AM
I don't give a damn if he's white or not...a lot of people are racist to their own race, doesn't mean I want to hear it and that's basically what I told him. If it meant I had to dig for an old topic to do it in then that's what I had to do.
Cracker please...:sleep:
theotherguy
12-07-2006, 04:37 AM
Its not discrimination if its against the majority, only the minority. At least in sterns case. It would be if you had a shop that said "no white people", but not if you're saying, "oh, I'm a white guy"
Raziaar
12-07-2006, 05:46 AM
Its not discrimination if its against the majority, only the minority. At least in sterns case. It would be if you had a shop that said "no white people", but not if you're saying, "oh, I'm a white guy"
Actually... prejudice against majority in an overtly negative way is just as much racist as it is against a minority. I don't see WHAT minority or majority has to do with defining it... racism isn't defined by such details.
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