What Does 2,000 Look Like?

[No Limit]

http://theunitedamerican.blogs.com/Movies/2000A/2000.html

[CptStern]

that's a heck of a lot of photos

I wonder where he got all those casket pics from ..they're very hard to find

[No Limit]

that's a heck of a lot of photos

I wonder where he got all those casket pics from ..they're very hard to find
Yeah, when releasing those photos means taking a political hit the neocons must do everything to block them. After all, trying to forget the soldiers died for your war is a great way to honor their sacrifice :rolleyes:.

[redhollowpoint]

hey no limit did you ever wonder what 1,000,000 + looks like, yeah its how many saddam killed :bounce: guess you dont want to tell about that though

[redhollowpoint]

Yeah, when releasing those photos means taking a political hit the neocons must do everything to block them. After all, trying to forget the soldiers died for your war is a great way to honor their sacrifice :rolleyes:.

its sad that you would use coffins to motivate a political agenda, shows how much respect you have for the fallen heros.

[CptStern]

Yeah, when releasing those photos means taking a political hit the neocons must do everything to block them. After all, trying to forget the soldiers died for your war is a great way to honor their sacrifice :rolleyes:.


yup:


The Washington Post reported Wednesday that the Bush administration has ordered the Pentagon to prevent any news coverage of the bodies of US troops being sent home from Iraq. The blackout on casualties is part of the attempt by the White House to recast the nightmare in Iraq as a “good news” story.

source (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/oct2003/bush-o23.shtml)

[redhollowpoint]

yup:


The Washington Post reported Wednesday that the Bush administration has ordered the Pentagon to prevent any news coverage of the bodies of US troops being sent home from Iraq. The blackout on casualties is part of the attempt by the White House to recast the nightmare in Iraq as a “good news” story.

source (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/oct2003/bush-o23.shtml)

why do you need to see a mutilated american body to get your political point across i see no sense in it

[CptStern]

hey no limit did you ever wonder what 1,000,000 + looks like, yeah its how many saddam killed :bounce: guess you dont want to tell about that though


800,000 of those were iranian soldiers ...far more civilians have died as a direct/indirect result of US intervention


its sad that you would use coffins to motivate a political agenda, shows how much respect you have for the fallen heros.

shows how little respect you have for the dead when you wont even acknowledge them ...why are pics of flag draped coffins banned? please explain, do go into a side tangent ..explain in your own words what purpose banning photos of war dead serves

[CptStern]

why do you need to see a mutilated american body to get your political point across i see no sense in it


please take the time to actually READ the passage before commenting ..WAR DEAD IN COFFINS:

"news coverage of the bodies of US troops being sent home from Iraq"

[redhollowpoint]

800,000 of those were iranian soldiers ...far more civilians have died as a direct/indirect result of US intervention




shows how little respect you have for the dead when you wont even acknowledge them ...why are pics of flag draped coffins banned? please explain, do go into a side tangent ..explain in your own words what purpose banning photos of war dead serves

so stern just cause they are iranian soldiers, the use of chemical gasses are ok? 800,000 dead iranian soldiers is ok with you???

i wont acknowlegde them?, i dont need to see pictures of thier coffins, or bodies it acknowledge that they are dead, i dont see the point of seeing thier coffin it doesnt suddenly mean something important. i respect every soldier/marine/salior/ or airmen that gives thier life in the line of duty, to further my point i have recently enlisted in the marine corps, and if i die, i dont want to have you loooking at my coffin, so you can fuel your rediculous left wing jihad against america.

[redhollowpoint]

please take the time to actually READ the passage before commenting ..WAR DEAD IN COFFINS:

"news coverage of the bodies of US troops being sent home from Iraq"

ok soryr over stepped myself say mutilated dead bodies, but coffins dont make much sense of showing, show some respect to the familys and men/women that gave thier lives, you know by showing these coffins your trying to get a reaction against the occupation. thats your only motive for showing them

[No Limit]

ok soryr over stepped myself say mutilated dead bodies, but coffins dont make much sense of showing, show some respect to the familys and men/women that gave thier lives, you know by showing these coffins your trying to get a reaction against the occupation. thats your only motive for showing them
Really? And what is the motive for not showing them? Families have nothing to do with it, the coffins don't have a name over them. So please, elighten me. Because to me it seems like Bush wants to forget about these people dying.

[redhollowpoint]

Really? And what is the motive for not showing them? Families have nothing to do with it, the coffins don't have a name over them. So please, elighten me. Because to me it seems like Bush wants to forget about these people dying.

forget about them? why dont you just take pictures of the cemetrys that they are burried in, you dont need to make a PR OP out of coffins in an airplane, thats blatent disrespect. No other war has photographers taking pictures of coffins, and i dont see why this one should be the same.

[The Monkey]

so stern just cause they are iranian soldiers, the use of chemical gasses are ok? 800,000 dead iranian soldiers is ok with you???

You didn't mind it in the 80s, in fact, you supported it. Why this sudden interest of the lives of Iranians?

[dekstar]

forget about them? why dont you just take pictures of the cemetrys that they are burried in, you dont need to make a PR OP out of coffins in an airplane, thats blatent disrespect. No other war has photographers taking pictures of coffins, and i dont see why this one should be the same.
IIRC the Vietnam war had footage and photos of the coffins shown on the news and in papers.

And that was a big success wasn't it?

[redhollowpoint]

You didn't mind it in the 80s, in fact, you supported it. Why this sudden interest of the lives of Iranians?

well considering i dotn agree with bush, i think he should have invaded on the sole purpose of freeing the iraqi's, infact i think gulf war one should have done that..... any way i dont agree with what america had done, but i accept this mistake and move on, it doesnt mean you can pardon saddam, he in the end was the final person to say yes use the gas, or no dont use the gas, it was his responsiblity. Further more, the political structure of the 80s was quite different than today (Cold war) anyway that is a much larger and differnet discussion.

[redhollowpoint]

IIRC the Vietnam war had footage and photos of the coffins shown on the news and in papers.

And that was a big success wasn't it?

show me the coffins, and yes there were pictures of war, but i dont agree with that, infact i condone it, i wouldnt want my mutilated/ coffinated body in the news. I would much rather have my story of how i died, or what i acheived for my country put in the paper, see all were debating here is really a political point of some dead guys, either way is a reaction you want out of the public to support your opinion of pulling out of hte occupation.

[Solaris]

People like you don't seem to care for Iraqi Civillians, so maybe seeing the dead of your own, will get the point across?

[Mr-Fusion]

Hey they're not supposed to show faces of the dead or the coffins!! That's supposed to be cut out so people don't make an emotional connection to reports of dead soldiers.

"In todays stories 3 U.S soldiers were killed by a roadside bomb"
*cuts to footage of a humvee*
"And now to the weather!"

News told in such a way that nobody cares. How about a 3 minute reflection on the dead soldiers lives and the family/friends they leave behind? No? The government and media is doing a pretty good job at keeping the populace emotionally disconnected from the casualties of war.

No other war has photographers taking pictures of coffins, and i dont see why this one should be the same.
I always see coffins on TV when a celebrity dies, or some child dies from a freak accident etc. I don't find that disrespectful. I think it's entirely dependant on why the coffin is shown.

If the media ran a story on a U.S soldier who died, shows his face, interviews his weeping mother, then ends with his coffin being carried by marines i would say that is the ultimate form of respect.

[redhollowpoint]

People like you don't seem to care for Iraqi Civillians, so maybe seeing the dead of your own, will get the point across?

try to stay on topic, any way iraqi civilians, god, if you only knew what the military does to minimize civilian casualties, maybe you should talk to some first hand experience rather than taking the media as your bible for information.

[redhollowpoint]

Hey they're not supposed to show faces of the dead or the coffins!! That's supposed to be cut out so people don't make an emotional connection to reports of dead soldiers.

"In todays stories 3 U.S soldiers were killed by a roadside bomb"
*cuts to footage of a humvee*
"And now to the weather!"

News told in such a way that nobody cares. How about a 3 minute reflection on the dead soldiers lives and the family/friends they leave behind? No? The government and media is doing a pretty good job at keeping the populace emotionally disconnected from the casualties of war.


I always see coffins on TV when a celebrity dies, or some child dies from a freak accident etc. I don't find that disrespectful. I think it's entirely dependant on why the coffin is shown.

If the media ran a story on a U.S soldier who died, shows his face, interviews his weeping mother, then ends with his coffin being carried by marines i would say that is the ultimate form of respect.

emotional connection?, if we showed dead soldiers everyday, people would get desensitized just like they got desensitized to seeing reports of dead soldiers. I dont see why coffins are so important to you guys, why not just have the cameras rolling at his memorial?

[Solaris]

try to stay on topic, any way iraqi civilians, god, if you only knew what the military does to minimize civilian casualties, maybe you should talk to some first hand experience rather than taking the media as your bible for information.
Oh yes, like levelling a civillian contry.

Does fallujah ring a bell?
The US massacared civillians there.

[Absinthe]

so stern just cause they are iranian soldiers, the use of chemical gasses are ok? 800,000 dead iranian soldiers is ok with you???

Holy leaping **** lizards, read up on your history.

And if you have such issues with seeing coffins, that says more about you than it does about anybody displaying them. You need to wake up and realize what your tax dollars are being invested in and what the results are. Disconnecting yourself from reality isn't doing anybody any favors. I think every American should see such photos.

[redhollowpoint]

Oh yes, like levelling a civillian contry.

Does fallujah ring a bell?
The US massacared civillians there.

MASSACARED??? they spent a week or more evacuating civilians telling them to get out, then they went in, any one who stayed would be killed. if they didnt get out its thier fault. leveling a civilian country, last time i checked iraq was being ruled by a dictoral government under the leadership of saddam, hardly a civilian country.... wtf is a civilian country.

[CptStern]

so stern just cause they are iranian soldiers, the use of chemical gasses are ok? 800,000 dead iranian soldiers is ok with you???

both sides used chemical weapons ...provided by the west ...you all didnt seem to care about WMD back then

i wont acknowlegde them?,

yes you, the right, the supporters of the war

i dont need to see pictures of thier coffins, or bodies it acknowledge that they are dead, i dont see the point of seeing thier coffin it doesnt suddenly mean something important. i respect every soldier/marine/salior/ or airmen that gives thier life in the line of duty, to further my point i have recently enlisted in the marine corps, and if i die, i dont want to have you loooking at my coffin, so you can fuel your rediculous left wing jihad against america.


rambling idiocy aside ..I'm sure the families of the soldiers would want their country to respect their dead ....seriously what possible motive could their be behind banning photos of flag covered coffins ...please answer this time as you avoided it before


ok soryr over stepped myself say mutilated dead bodies, but coffins dont make much sense of showing, show some respect to the familys and men/women that gave thier lives, you know by showing these coffins your trying to get a reaction against the occupation. thats your only motive for showing them

do you have telepathy? you must because you seem to know my motivations


if you only knew what the military does to minimize civilian casualties, maybe you should talk to some first hand experience rather than taking the media as your bible for information.

really then why did 7000 civilians die during the invasion ...let me guess: they so happened to be standing next to iraqi soldiers when they were killed .....all 7000 of them

[redhollowpoint]

Holy leaping **** lizards, read up on your history, little man.

correct me then if your all knowing. i dont have an almanac in my head.

[Solaris]

Oops, I meant city.

Evacuate fallujah? To where exactly?
These people don't have holiday homes to go to.

[redhollowpoint]

both sides used chemical weapons ...provided by the west ...you all didnt seem to care about WMD back then



yes you, the right, the supporters of the war




rambling idiocy aside ..I'm sure the families of the soldiers would want their country to respect their dead ....seriously what possible motive could their be behind banning photos of flag covered coffins ...please answer this time as you avoided it before




do you have telepathy? you must because you seem to know my motivations

i could care less about WMD's i know they prove no threat to america, atleast from iraq, i firmly support the war based on freeing a society.

showing coffins, to me, is a sign of disrespect, i feel as though you and the people who are taking the photos are soley using them to get a reaction out of the public to take away support for the occupation, and our troops, i have stated this many times in the thread, dont try and say im avoiding your question, try and read next time.

[Absinthe]

correct me then if your all knowing. i dont have an almanac in my head.

Then read up on these things before you talk about them.

[redhollowpoint]

Oops, I meant city.

Evacuate fallujah? To where exactly?
These people don't have holiday homes to go to.

leave the city, until the battle is over, its not the U.S's concern where they go. are you going to bitch to me now about having them homes for one week, its a friggin war they are in the military cant construct holiday inns for everybody before an invasion fallujah, the most they can do is have them get out for like a week before they can return to thier homes.

[redhollowpoint]

Then read up on these things before you talk about them.

im still waiting to be corrected.:naughty:

[Absinthe]

showing coffins, to me, is a sign of disrespect, i feel as though you and the people who are taking the photos are soley using them to get a reaction out of the public to take away support for the occupation, and our troops, i have stated this many times in the thread, dont try and say im avoiding your question, try and read next time.

Well, duh. They obviously don't support the war and think it's a waste. The photos exemplify that.

im still waiting to be corrected.:naughty:

Corrected on what?

[redhollowpoint]

Well, duh. They obviously don't support the war and think it's a waste. The photos exemplify that.



Corrected on what?

why not take pictures of the good done in iraq??? and i know all your going to say is what good, but there is progress being made, if you look at the interviews, and talk to the soldiers they all report progress, and they all hate how the media portrays them, and thier actions. so no the photos only exemplify a bias.

[CptStern]

i could care less about WMD's i know they prove no threat to america, atleast from iraq, i firmly support the war based on freeing a society.

by killing up to 100,000 civilians? by helping to instate a government that pushes back women's rights to an all time low? by helping rewrite iraqi laws that will benefit american companies ...please save your propaganda for the less informed

showing coffins, to me, is a sign of disrespect,

who are you to judge? shouldnt that be the decision of the victems families?

i feel as though you and the people who are taking the photos are soley using them to get a reaction out of the public to take away support for the occupation, and our troops, i have stated this many times in the thread, dont try and say im avoiding your question, try and read next time.


again you dont know the motivations behind it but I can speculate that these people (journalists for the most part as they are the only ones who'd have access) have legitimate reasons for doing this: the Truth



3rd time asking: what possible motivation behind banning photos of the dead could there possibly be ..I want a straight answer not your personal opinion but one based on facts ...I must remind you that in no other war (besides the gulf war, and that was only limited to one base) were photos of the dead banned

[Absinthe]

why not take pictures of the good done in iraq??? and i know all your going to say is what good, but there is progress being made, if you look at the interviews, and talk to the soldiers they all report progress, and they all hate how the media portrays them, and thier actions. so no the photos only exemplify a bias.

While all the military higher-ups with an actual overview of the situation report little to no progress. There is very little to celebrate about Iraq.

The photos do not inherently have a bias in them. What you are seeing is a wooden box with a dead soldier in it. Any political message that comes with it is externally added. The message of that flash video: we have lost 2,000 soldiers based on lies and incompetence.

[CptStern]

why not take pictures of the good done in iraq???

what good news? please show me some good news because I'm dying for good news out of iraq ...the violence has escalated, civilians are dying at an alarming rate, 100% of iraqis are on food rations, 2/3rds of the country is without electricity for almost 2 years now, and to this day NOT ONE justification behind the war turned out to be true ...again I ask you WHAT GOOD NEWS?

and i know all your going to say is what good, but there is progress being made, if you look at the interviews, and talk to the soldiers they all report progress, and they all hate how the media portrays them, and thier actions. so no the photos only exemplify a bias.

then it should be easy to find some examples ...but to be perfectly honest daily reports of 60+ civilians being blown to kingdom come trump any small measure of sucess

[Solaris]

leave the city, until the battle is over, its not the U.S's concern where they go. are you going to bitch to me now about having them homes for one week, its a friggin war they are in the military cant construct holiday inns for everybody before an invasion fallujah, the most they can do is have them get out for like a week before they can return to thier homes.

Oh and I suppose they can return to this?
http://chuck.mahost.org/weblog/images/fallujah.jpg

[Lemonking]

You didn't mind it in the 80s, in fact, you supported it. Why this sudden interest of the lives of Iranians?



duh sure all americans supported it :angel:

[No Limit]

duh sure all americans supported it :angel:
The idiots that attacked Iraq in 2003 supported it back then. So you are right :dozey:.

[Lemonking]

"all americans"


duh^^ I didnt support it

[Kmack]

such a sad, sad waste of life. how can you send 2000 (and counting) boys to their death based on lies? i wonder, will all the money GW and Cheney have made ever buy back their souls?

why would someone want the war in Iraq to keep going? there are no WMDs, we're gonna be there for (at least) 5 more years, death count will hit (at least) 5000, civilian death count is already absurd, its caused a TRIPLING in global terrorist attacks, and we havent even caught Osama Bin Laden (who this whole war on terror started out to get), its costing billions of dollars we dont have, its increasing oil prices to absurd levels nailing the economy down, its killed 2000 american boys (wounded thousands more), its based on lies (cant reiterate that enough), its extremely unpopular with the american public, chances are Iraq will just get taken over again the moment we leave (if we ever leave), and most importantly, it is setting the stage for an islamic terrorist attack that will make 9-11 look like christmas in santas village. all this is speculation, but they are just a handful of reasons i think we are foolish to be in Iraq .

[short recoil]

It would have been so much more effective if they didn't repeat the same images several time to make up the 2000......
I know it would have been impossible to get all 2000 images of dead soldiers but they way they did it just looks silly.

[CptStern]

...why would someone want the war in Iraq to keep going? there are no WMDs, we're gonna be there for (at least) 5 more years, ....

the US recently said they'd be in iraq indefinately (http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=90948&highlight=indefinately)

[The Monkey]

duh sure all americans supported it :angel:
Why do people always think I'm talking about them personallt when saying "you"? By "you", I meant the US, hence the US government.

[Razor]

The problem is, some of those 2000people and their families might have a huge problem with their pictures being shown. Some of them might of been very happy to have given their lives for something they truely believed in, yet their image is now being portrayed in away that would go against what they believe in.

[gh0st]

just had to chime in with my full support of sterns "facts". his source? the world socialist website. hahahhahahahahahhahaha what a delusional turd. but seriously, this flash really hit it home for me. i NEVER could have imagined what TWO THOUSAND looked like. man, that is a huge number. i cant even begin to comprehend its grand scale.

[dream431ca]

just had to chime in with my full support of sterns "facts". his source? the world socialist website. hahahhahahahahahhahaha what a delusional turd. but seriously, this flash really hit it home for me. i NEVER could have imagined what TWO THOUSAND looked like. man, that is a huge number. i cant even begin to comprehend its grand scale.

Too Bad it won't stay at 2000.

[gh0st]

Too Bad it won't stay at 2000.
yeah. "too bad". i bet sterns just waiting for that latest casualty report. he might as well be over there shooting rpg's at americans and civilians.

[brink's]

What song was playing in that vid? Sounded like something from Pink Floyd.

[KagePrototype]

gh0st, stop stirring shit up.

[Kmack]

gh0st, stop stirring shit up.

i've heard that....oooo lets say..... 2000 times

[Bob_Marley]

The reason we dont see pictures of US military coffins is that there are too many links with Veitnam. One of the enduring images of that confilct is that of coffins draped in American flags. And we cant have Iraq being linked to Veitnam. That would be bad for public morale and support for the war.

I'm still holding out for a US door gunner to say "any one who runs is an insergent. Anyone who stays still is a well diciplined insergent." Then we'll know, as I said since before the invasion, that this turly has become another Veitnam.

[Kmack]

The reason we dont see pictures of US military coffins is that there are too many links with Veitnam. One of the enduring images of that confilct is that of coffins draped in American flags. And we cant have Iraq being linked to Veitnam. That would be bad for public morale and support for the war.

I'm still holding out for a US door gunner to say "any one who runs is an insergent. Anyone who stays still is a well diciplined insergent." Then we'll know, as I said since before the invasion, that this turly has become another Veitnam.

it'll (sadly) take about twenty years for that realization to hit :|

[Dalamari]

This war is like Vietnam without the kickass drugs and music :)

[CptStern]

just had to chime in with my full support of sterns "facts". his source? the world socialist website. hahahhahahahahahhahaha what a delusional turd.


you probably should have looked it up before running at the mouth, it could have prevented you from looking like a fool:


"Since 1991, the media have been banned from covering the arrival of remains at Dover. The air base houses the military's largest mortuary, where bodies are prepared for burial before they are sent to the families' hometowns.

"In March, before the Iraq war began, the Pentagon clamped down on similar coverage from military installations around the world, such as Ramstein Air Base in Germany or in Afghanistan. "The prohibition includes ... the movement of remains at any point," the Pentagon guidelines say."

source (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-12-31-casket-usat_x.htm)



"The Pentagon's ban on photographing soldiers' coffins at US military bases dates to the first Gulf War in 1991. The US government, concerned that the ban was often ignored, re-issued it shortly before the start of the war in Iraq, and it is now strictly enforced."

source (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/23/1082616331728.html?from=storyrhs)



"Pentagon rules dating back to 1991 ban the media from covering the return of the remains of soldiers killed abroad. "

source (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3652171.stm)



"In March 2003, on the eve of war in Iraq, the Pentagon ordered an end to all media coverage of ceremonies for the returning remains of soldiers killed overseas. Although Dover already had such a policy, the Pentagon action enforced a military-wide ban on images of flag-draped caskets that dated to late 2000 but had not been followed."

source (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-12-31-casket-usat_x.htm)



"In March, on the eve of the Iraq war, a directive arrived from the Pentagon at U.S. military bases. "There will be no arrival ceremonies for, or media coverage of, deceased military personnel returning to or departing from Ramstein [Germany] airbase or Dover [Del.] base, to include interim stops," the Defense Department said, referring to the major ports for the returning remains."

source (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A55816-2003Oct20)

[CptStern]

What song was playing in that vid? Sounded like something from Pink Floyd.

yup from the Meddle album: One of these days

good ear :thumbs:

[TheSomeone]

to further my point i have recently enlisted in the marine corps, and if i die, i dont want to have you loooking at my coffin, so you can fuel your rediculous left wing jihad against america.

LOL okay, that's enough for me.

* walks away laughing *

[Tr0n]

2,000 looks like...well...2,000.

[thorvale the red]

No, I never did wonder what 2,00 looks like! Ever! No comical relief to it. A waste of good bandwith for me. But then again, I'm one of the few that doesn't care about poloitics so I won't cry about "liberalist views" or how to "to fight the power", too many flames come out of that. Which is pretty funny, because these debates are over the internet, or according to Bush, the internets.

[brink's]

yup from the Meddle album: One of these days

good ear :thumbs:
lol I own that album, time to pop it in and have an ole listen.

[Adabiviak]

It gives credit to Pink Floyd at the end of the animation. Did we ever hear why they banned the photos of the deceased? Correct me if I'm wrong, but a lesson seriously learned in the Vietnam war was that photo journalism of a war going sour is bad for you. Vietnam was the first war that was heavily covered by the media. Sure, there are pictures and some video from WWII, but Vietnam had color video from the front lines, bodies, carnage, the whole nine yards. The civillian populace didn't like this (in addition to the way the war was going), and a huge backlash against the war was begun. Keeping photos and videos of the horrors of war away from the public makes it more tolerable, and a government may avoid such a difficult situation.

Might we assume they knew what they were getting into by starting this "no media" campaign? It sure sounded like a walk in the park when they first sold it to us, but maybe they were just covering their butt in case (when) things got nasty over there.

[CptStern]

It gives credit to Pink Floyd at the end of the animation. Did we ever hear why they banned the photos of the deceased? Correct me if I'm wrong, but a lesson seriously learned in the Vietnam war was that photo journalism of a war going sour is bad for you. Vietnam was the first war that was heavily covered by the media. Sure, there are pictures and some video from WWII, but Vietnam had color video from the front lines, bodies, carnage, the whole nine yards. The civillian populace didn't like this (in addition to the way the war was going), and a huge backlash against the war was begun. Keeping photos and videos of the horrors of war away from the public makes it more tolerable, and a government may avoid such a difficult situation..


public reaction was one of the reasons the US pulled out of vietnam

[No Limit]

this flash really hit it home for me. i NEVER could have imagined what TWO THOUSAND looked like. man, that is a huge number. i cant even begin to comprehend its grand scale.
Dick. These are the assholes that "support our troops". :rolleyes:

[Llama]

gh0st, please fight and die in Iraq, and bring your family to be raped, tortured and murdered while your at it. Then maybe, just maybe, you'll start to understand.

[No Limit]

gh0st, please fight and die in Iraq, and bring your family to be raped, tortured and murdered while your at it. Then maybe, just maybe, you'll start to understand.
He's too chickenshit to do that. He will blindly be a cheerleader for the war but he is too scared to actually go over there. We call them chickenhawks in the liberal circles.

[Ikerous]

How is it that videos like the ones made by Jib Jab get tons of media coverage, but serious - possibley life saving - videos like this, don't even stand a chance of ever seeing air time?
I'd email the link to the same commentators, but it'd likely be in vain :/

[Lemonking]

He's too chickenshit to do that. He will blindly be a cheerleader for the war but he is too scared to actually go over there. We call them chickenhawks in the liberal circles.



incase you havent noticed so are you,we all are chicken cuz we hang out on a GAMING FORUM and talk about this issue:upstare:

[No Limit]

incase you havent noticed so are you,we all are chicken cuz we hang out on a GAMING FORUM and talk about this issue:upstare:
I'm not the one cheerleading for this war. People like ghost have no problem with the war as long as other people die for it.

[gh0st]

actually i hope i end up in iraq so i can commit some war atrocities. im willing to bet both my testicles that i'm the only person in this thread who is going to join the military. so no, i'm not the chickenshit. the military will be my career, so rest assured my balls are where your - i mean my - mouth is. im aware how large the number 2000 is, i dont need to be condescended to by a bunch of liberal goons.

[Lemonking]

Im thinking about siging up as soon as I loose weight >.<

[No Limit]

actually i hope i end up in iraq so i can commit some war atrocities. im willing to bet both my testicles that i'm the only person in this thread who is going to join the military. so no, i'm not the chickenshit. the military will be my career, so rest assured my balls are where your - i mean my - mouth is. im aware how large the number 2000 is, i dont need to be condescended to by a bunch of liberal goons.
You have been saying this for months, I think you are full of shit. How about you put your money where your mouth is:

http://usmilitary.about.com/library/pdf/enlistment.pdf

Let me know when you have dropped off that form at your local army recruiting station. Then, once you are in the military (should only take a couple weeks) we can easily verify over the internet that you actually did sign up.

Im thinking about siging up as soon as I loose weight >.<
The Army is the perfect place to lose weight, you are free to fill out the form above and drop it off at your local army recruiting station. For more information you can visit their propgen...I mean site:

http://www.goarmy.com

[Shakermaker]

I agree with No Limit, Gh0st. Put your money where your mouth is. Enlist now. Do it.

At least we'll have some peace and quiet on this forum again when u do .....

[sadman]

you guys are so against the war and the death yet your trying to push someone into it and on top of that you say you want him to die?

[diluted]

nevermind :|

[Lemonking]

you guys are a bunch of dumb haters

[Kebean PFC]

"Chickenshits" NoLimit & Shakermaker. Did it ever occur to you that some of us are not 18 yet? Obviously not.

You are a bunch of hypocritical jackasses. You argue endlessly about "needless death" yet you push a forum member to enlist with the intention that he dies. That is about as low as you could go in my book. Man i wish i was a mod so i could ban you...

[No Limit]

"Chickenshits" NoLimit & Shakermaker. Did it ever occur to you that some of us are not 18 yet? Obviously not.

He is over 18.

You are a bunch of hypocritical jackasses. You argue endlessly about "needless death" yet you push a forum member to enlist with the intention that he dies. That is about as low as you could go in my book. Man i wish i was a mod so i could ban you...
But him cheerleading for the death of american troops is okay?

I know he won't enlist, he is too chickenshit too do it or he would have done it a long time ago. If you actually believe in something as deep as he seems to you need to go out and fight for it. Unless of course you believe that those troops are dying in an unjust war based on lies.

[Pesmerga]

What does 50 million look like, No Limit? Oh, Europe during WW2!

You must hate any President during any war in American history. And don't give me this "Oh, we didn't HAVE to invade Germany" shit, you know as well as anybody that's a completely useless argument.

[diluted]

What does 50 million look like, No Limit? Oh, Europe during WW2!

You must hate any President during any war in American history. And don't give me this "Oh, we didn't HAVE to invade Germany" shit, you know as well as anybody that's a completely useless argument.
You're comparing stomping out Nazism to securing America's energy needs.

[Pesmerga]

You're comparing stomping out Nazism to securing America's energy needs.

I'm comparing death tolls.

And are you so ready to bet all your chips that Bush's intentions weren't good? Let's see, 7 billion people live on this planet, and a handful are assigned with the duty to investigate what's really going on.

Fine, if you want to believe that he was wrong, go ahead, I might even agree with you. You can't blame someone who tries to do the right thing, though, and until proven otherwise, I believe he did.

[No Limit]

I'm comparing death tolls.

And are you so ready to bet all your chips that Bush's intentions weren't good? Let's see, 7 billion people live on this planet, and a handful are assigned with the duty to investigate what's really going on.

Fine, if you want to believe that he was wrong, go ahead, I might even agree with you. You can't blame someone who tries to do the right thing, though, and until proven otherwise, I believe he did.
No, you are comparing a war that killed 50 million and couldn't have been aviouded to a war that could have been avoided and has proven to be unjust. You are a disgrace to any WWII vet, you make me sick. Using 50 million deaths as a political tool for yourself. Piss off.

[JNightshade]

You're really so arrogant as to consider America "assigned with the duty"? THE UN was assigned with the duty, and they found no WMDs (which still have yet to materialize). America is just another country, with no special duty other than protecting its own people.

Furthermore, it's 6 billion people.

[Pesmerga]

No, you are comparing a war that killed 50 million and couldn't have been aviouded to a war that could have been avoided and has proven to be unjust. You are a disgrace to any WWII vet, you make me sick. Using 50 million deaths as a political tool for yourself. Piss off.

Hahaha, oh my god, no really. I'm having another moment.

You've made HUNDREDS of posts with death tolls as your backup. Now you're telling me that it's not OK to do it.

I see how your arguments work.

THE UN was assigned with the duty, and they found no WMDs (which still have yet to materialize). America is just another country, Yeah, I'm still trying to find where I said those handful of people were working for the American military. I love assuming, it's fun! Oh, and it's funny to see people using that same exact argument "America is the richest / most powerful country in the world har har its their job lawl", and now someone reversed it because they thought it would sound good.

[JNightshade]

No, I reversed it because that's actually my opinion. Don't think you understand my reasoning. And as to the "handful of people" thing... I'm sorry. Apparently I did make an assumption. That's pretty unusual for me.

[spookymooky]

No, you are comparing a war that killed 50 million and couldn't have been aviouded to a war that could have been avoided and has proven to be unjust. You are a disgrace to any WWII vet, you make me sick. Using 50 million deaths as a political tool for yourself. Piss off.
I was going to look through this thread for a post where you said something about the 2000 deaths to justify something you said. Then I realized you started it.

You could maybe get away with this in a live debate, in which we might not be able to pin a quote down on you, but on a forum, all your comments are available for easy quotation.

Do you think that using a casualty count to justify a political point is wrong?

[Llama]

Hahaha, oh my god, no really. I'm having another moment.

You've made HUNDREDS of posts with death tolls as your backup. Now you're telling me that it's not OK to do it.

I see how your arguments work.

Yeah, I'm still trying to find where I said those handful of people were working for the American military. I love assuming, it's fun! Oh, and it's funny to see people using that same exact argument "America is the richest / most powerful country in the world har har its their job lawl", and now someone reversed it because they thought it would sound good.

You really are a prat. World War F---ing 2 and the Iraq war are a little different, no?

1.) If the USA hadn't interveened then Hitler might well have ended up controlling Europe (Not certain, but highly possible)
2.) 40 Million people died for perhaps the most critically important war EVER. It was, literally, the world at stake. Comparing a literal fight against evil to Bush's pathetic schemes on gaining Oil is the most stupid thing i've ever heard.:|

[15357]

You really are a prat. World War F---ing 2 and the Iraq war are a little different, no?

1.) If the USA hadn't interveened then Hitler might well have ended up controlling Europe (Not certain, but highly possible)
2.) 40 Million people died for perhaps the most critically important war EVER. It was, literally, the world at stake. Comparing a literal fight against evil to Bush's pathetic schemes on gaining Oil is the most stupid thing i've ever heard.:|

Yeah.... Did he (Bush) ever say it was for the damned oil?

[Llama]

Yeah.... Did he (Bush) ever say it was for the damned oil?

:rolleyes:
Okay then, what was it for? The "War on Terrorism"?
Or on that absolute MOUNTAIN of evidence to show the WMD's been manufactured?

:rolleyes:

Keep it real, this war was for Oil, nothing more, nothing less.

[15357]

:rolleyes:
Okay then, what was it for? The "War on Terrorism"?
Or on that absolute MOUNTAIN of evidence to show the WMD's been manufactured?

:rolleyes:

Keep it real, this war was for Oil, nothing more, nothing less.

:rolleyes:

And can you read minds?

[Lemonking]

ist just cool to say that 1537 dissing the USA is just cool these days and alot of people dont have anything else 2 do except for complaining about stuff

[15357]

ist just cool to say that 1537 dissing the USA is just cool these days and alot of people dont have anything else 2 do except for complaining about stuff

say again please?

[Absinthe]

Oh yes, people only criticize the US because it's trendy and hip! In no way is its foreign policy a load of shit. :rolling:

[Lemonking]

sure thats a reason 2 but alota people say shit about the US even thoe they dont know jack


like here:http://forum.giga.de/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=165
or here:http://board.gulli.com/forum/13

[Absinthe]

Well, my German's rusty so I don't know what people are saying on those boards, but it's also true that plenty of people support the US when they don't know jack as well. For any position there are bound to be people that don't know what they're talking about.

So can we agree that it's a pointless statement?

[Lemonking]

okay Im sorry

[ComradeBadger]

I'd just like to say that showing photos of soldier's coffins is generally bad for a country's morale - that's why they don't do it - NO ONE DOES IT. It's not just the US or just this war..

.. granted the Bush administration isn't the best in the world by far and this war isn't going as well as it could, but hell, you know there are better things to argue about.

[15357]

I'd just like to say that showing photos of soldier's coffins is generally bad for a country's morale - that's why they don't do it - NO ONE DOES IT. It's not just the US or just this war..

.. granted the Bush administration isn't the best in the world by far and this war isn't going as well as it could, but hell, you know there are better things to argue about.

unless they're trying to say: "Look at this destruction and horrible things that the evil and vile enemy has done!"

[No Limit]

Hahaha, oh my god, no really. I'm having another moment.

You've made HUNDREDS of posts with death tolls as your backup. Now you're telling me that it's not OK to do it.

I was going to look through this thread for a post where you said something about the 2000 deaths to justify something you said. Then I realized you started it.

You could maybe get away with this in a live debate, in which we might not be able to pin a quote down on you, but on a forum, all your comments are available for easy quotation.

Do you think that using a casualty count to justify a political point is wrong?
You guys don't have a very good understanding of the english language, let me help you out. What I said was that comparing a war that was necessary to stop Hitler from taking over the world to a war that was completely pointless (unless you are Halliburton) is a disgrace to over 50 million people that died in that war. You guys are whoring one of the worst times in the history of man kind to somehow say that shit happens and its okay people are dying in the Iraq war. : puke : Again, you guys are a disgrace to any person that was alive or that died in that time period.

[15357]

You guys don't have a very good understanding of the english language, let me help you out. What I said was that comparing a war that was necessary to stop Hitler from taking over the world to a war that was completely pointless (unless you are Halliburton) is a disgrace to over 50 million people that died in that war. You guys are whoring one of the worst times in the history of man kind to somehow say that shit happens and its okay people are dying in the Iraq war. : puke : Again, you guys are a disgrace to any person that was alive or that died in that time period.

Random thought: The vietnam war was similar to the Iraq war. No point in it.

[Lemonking]

trying help a country against Boschewism Invaders,there was a point

[CptStern]

I'd just like to say that showing photos of soldier's coffins is generally bad for a country's morale - that's why they don't do it - NO ONE DOES IT. It's not just the US or just this war..

no, the US is alone in this ..when 4 canadians were killed in afghanistan a few years back their caskets received a hero's welcome when they arrived in canada

and yes it is bad for morale but that's the point: the US needs to continue to sell the war to it's population. Publishing photos of their war dead will only turn popular opinion against the war ...I see nothing wrong with that. The citizens of the US need to see the grim reality of what their government got them into.

.. granted the Bush administration isn't the best in the world by far and this war isn't going as well as it could, but hell, you know there are better things to argue about.


I dont understand today's complacency surrounding the war, possibly 100's of thousands of people will die because of the war, yet we should devote our time to discussing other political matters? this is the single most important event of YOUR generation, possibly even mine.

[15357]

trying help a country against Boschewism Invaders,there was a point

Which utterly failed and disrupted the unification of an ethnic group.

Also, the US made up something to attack Vietnam.

[Absinthe]

and yes it is bad for morale but that's the point: the US needs to continue to sell the war to it's population. Publishing photos of their war dead will only turn popular opinion against the war ...I see nothing wrong with that. The citizens of the US need to see the grim reality of what their government got them into.

Agreed in full. I don't care who does it as I disagree with such a practice on every level.

Only when the citizens of a nation can stare directly at the corpses of their troops can they decide if a conflict was worth it. Avoiding them because you might get emotional is a bypass of reality so you can live in a fantasy land where everything's okey-dokey.

[Llama]

:rolleyes:

And can you read minds?

Nope, but i was born with a brain.
Figure it out Einstein. If there are no real terror threats or WMD threats, why would you bother invading a country? I mean, apart from it containing one of the most useful resources this world uses there is absolutly NO reason to be there :rolleyes:

[Sulkdodds]

If anyone says the US invaded Iraq just to help out and/or topple a horrid dictatorship I will have to beat them (metaphorically, natch) over the head for not invading China and Belarus.

[Angry Lawyer]

As a crazy aside. No Limit, you post threads slating America on a daily basis. Now, I have no special love for the Bush administration -

But why are you preaching on a messageboard where the average age is 14? Seriously, you can justify all of your posts with hundreds of sources, but you're not getting anything changed. Posting on a messageboard and quoting news agencies isn't going to stop the war in Iraq.

Stop arguing with 14-year-olds. You might be right on a number of points, but your wasting your breath here. Go and do something constructive, like join a protest rally, or chain yourself to the whitehouse, or shoot Bush, or something. Seriously, posting here is not the way to get your voice heard.

-Angry Lawyer

[Solaris]

If he can change the mind of one voter then its worth it.

I quite enjoy debating here,

[Angry Lawyer]

If he can change the mind of one voter then its worth it.

I quite enjoy debating here,

One voter? Only about 2% of HL2.net are even eligible for voting. And even then, most of them already agree with you, and the only ones who don't just aren't worth bothering with, because they keep pumping out their blind drivel.

-Angry Lawyer

[Solaris]

If he enjoys it its worth it.

And well all be eligble to vote one day.

[Absinthe]

I actually have to take the side of Lawyer here. As much as I dislike Bush and his administration, this really is overkill. A lot of it is parroting the same stuff over and over again. If somebody isn't convinced at this point, they won't be in any foreseeable future.

Surely one can take a break, eh? The Politics forum is choking on these kinds of threads, so it's not like anybody's going to miss anything. Save a new topic for when we really require it.

[Sulkdodds]

My problem with republicans is that they're all lying sacks of scum shit.

/me spits

[French Ninja]

My problem with republicans is that they're all lying sacks of scum shit.

/me spits
NoLimit = Sulkdodds? :o
omgduplicateaccountsolojkthxbye

[Pesmerga]

You really are a prat. World War F---ing 2 and the Iraq war are a little different, no?

1.) If the USA hadn't interveened then Hitler might well have ended up controlling Europe (Not certain, but highly possible)

Most likely the Russians would have toppled the German Wermacht. If they didn't, the British would have. The fact of the matter is, America joined the war to help put an end to a threat.

So one could argue a philosophical debate on the war in Iraq, that perhaps it may not have been logical to invade, it may have prevented a string of events that caused mass world famine. I know that's not the point, but hell, Germany may have ended up being a really great country with Hitler out of the way, so possibly stopping Germany may have doomed the species.

Either way, whether or not the war was a mistake, I do agree it could have been done with less brute force.


2.) 40 Million people died for perhaps the most critically important war EVER. It was, literally, the world at stake. Comparing a literal fight against evil to Bush's pathetic schemes on gaining Oil is the most stupid thing i've ever heard.:|

My point, however difficult it may be to grasp, is that you can't continually make any war that isn't a "literal fight against evil" look like an act of greed. It's all a power struggle, the US excerts and maintains power through force, and protects it like a mother would her child. The real argument here is not whether war is good or bad, or which ones to like and not like, or who starts them. It's about intentions, because intentions are honest and you can't blame anyone with intentions, "evil" or otherwise. Excert power over anyone who doesn't have good intentions, if you win, woohoo, go bake some ****ing cookies and then rule the world. It's a vicious cycle of masculinity, and in a world run by women, we'd all be a bit better off.

[No Limit]

I actually have to take the side of Lawyer here. As much as I dislike Bush and his administration, this really is overkill. A lot of it is parroting the same stuff over and over again. If somebody isn't convinced at this point, they won't be in any foreseeable future.

Surely one can take a break, eh? The Politics forum is choking on these kinds of threads, so it's not like anybody's going to miss anything. Save a new topic for when we really require it.
See, this is the problem. Most people here are not trying to learn anything here. They come in here with their ideology and they will stick to it even if they can't defend it. However, I like to believe some people here don't know much about politics and would like to learn. Remember, this isn't the only message board we all visit, most people reading this right now are members of mnay other boards around there internet where politics does come u. No matter how hard you try to aviod politics it will always be brought up by someone on any board you visit, from programming boards I frequent to gaming boards, to boards about cars (whatever); I would like people posting at those boards to be a little more educated.

Believe it or not I also actually enjoy good, clean, mature debate. Sure, there hasn't been much of that around here lately and I could have moved on a long time ago; however, I have respect for a few members here and will continue to try and engage in meaningful discussion with them whenever possible. Maybe if we didn't have posts about how useless these posts are that would happen more often ;).

[ComradeBadger]

To be honest No Limit, you came here with your idealogy, and everyone who disagrees with you is a righty in your eyes.

Suprisingly enough, the problem with US politics is that it is black & white, 1 choice or the other-blindly follow one party line or the other.

[Ikerous]

I appreciate your threads No Limit <3

[15357]

Nope, but i was born with a brain.
Figure it out Einstein. If there are no real terror threats or WMD threats, why would you bother invading a country? I mean, apart from it containing one of the most useful resources this world uses there is absolutly NO reason to be there :rolleyes:

Peace. :E

I was just arguing to see how the politics forums are. :D

[gh0st]

umm no limit, i'm a senior in high school @ 17. you are sorely mistaken if you think im stupid enough to enlist in the army. im going into university and ill determine which branch im going into, so at least i'll be an officer. so youre going to have to hold your britches for pictures of my coffin.

[No Limit]

umm no limit, i'm a senior in high school @ 17. you are sorely mistaken if you think im stupid enough to enlist in the army. im going into university and ill determine which branch im going into, so at least i'll be an officer. so youre going to have to hold your britches for pictures of my coffin.
You can fill out the form I gave you at 17. Come on, do it!

[gh0st]

You can fill out the form I gave you at 17. Come on, do it!
um.. yes, i could fill it out if i was planning on ENLISTING in the military, which i'm not as i said. you could take a job as a garbage man too, if you wanted, but you wont because its not something im sure you want to do. there are far more opportunities for officers in the military.