Jeb Bush asks Jack Thompson to write anti-game law

[CptStern]

For more than a decade, Thompson, a Florida-based medical malpractice attorney, has been one the most vociferous critics of the game industry. As outlined on his Web site, Stopkill.com, Thompson says that "Video games are literally 'murder simulators' teaching our kids how to kill." Among other things, he:
--Asserts the original Doom video game had a major role in the 1999 Columbine High School massacre.
--Claims multiple copycat killings across the country were inspired by the Grand Theft Auto series
--Has called the Entertainment Software Association (ESA), the US gameindustry lobby, a "criminal" organization with a "thug" president.
--Says The Sims 2 is packed with easily accessible "full frontal nudity, including nipples, penises, labia, and pubic hair."


Repeatedly, Thompson has called for states to pass laws criminalizing the sale of M-for-Mature rated games to minors. Now it appears he may get the chance to pen such a law himself. In an e-mail sent out Thursday, Thompson says he has "been asked by the Office of the Governor of the State of Florida, Jeb Bush, to draft and submit to him and to Florida legislators a bill that will prohibit the sale of violent and sexually explicit video games to minors."

"The Office of Governor Bush has told Thompson that the Governor will sign such a bill if it is placed before him." In his e-mail, Thompson said that he would have the bill ready in the "next several days" so it could be submitted during the legislature's next session. When queried by GameSpot for more details, he would only say that he is the only person thus far who has been asked to submit a bill to the governor's office about M-rated game sales. He did not offer details about what kind of penalties the bill would prescribe for offenders or whether or not said penalties would be imposed solely on the clerks selling the games or also on the establishment selling the game and/or the game's publisher."




I see this as a step towards the final goal of overhauling the rating system by an outside body probably regulated by the government. The implication here is that once laws are in place making it a criminal offense to sell games to minors they'll set the ratings peg one rung lower. M games will have mild violence while Adults Only titles games will have gratuitous violence and nudity ...which will force creators to self-censor in order to avoid an AO rating ...Valve would be immune to this as they've moved to digital distribution ..looks like Gabe has foresight

[Mechagodzilla]

Sucks to be florida. Or really the US in general at this point.

If Thompson tryed this in canada, I can all but guarantee that he would be rightfully ignored.

[CptStern]

Sucks to be florida. Or really the US in general at this point.

If Thompson tryed this in canada, I can all but guarantee that he would be rightfully ignored.

but he will affect canada ..Ubi Soft Montreal, BioWare, Digital Illusions, Rockstar Vancouver, Radical Entertainment all have to abide by those laws despite having offices/development teams in canada. The entire industry will be affected ..it'll have a trickle down effect

[DreamThrall]

As a general rule, I don't agree with tools like Jack Thompson... HOWEVER.. what is wrong with a law against selling "M" games to children? People shouldn't be doing that anyways.

[CptStern]

As a general rule, I don't agree with tools like Jack Thompson... HOWEVER.. what is wrong with a law against selling "M" games to children? People shouldn't be doing that anyways.

I agree ..there should be laws against selling to minors ...when the same thing is done for other entertainment ...I havent been underage for a long time but can minors purchase R Rated dvds?

see if this were anyone but the anti-game coalition (Thompson, Liberman, Yee, Clinton) I wouldnt object ...but they have ulterior motives, I dont trust them to do what is right for the gaming industry

[Sulkdodds]

For once I agree with your conspiracy theories, Stern. :O

[CptStern]

heh they're not theories ..they sound perfectly plausible to me ..and that's all that matters ;) :E

[kirovman]

The BBFC should adminstrate them. Less fuss.

[JellyWorld]

I don't see what's wrong with selling R-rated dvds or M-rated games to minors anyway, it's not the government's job to decide what content is acceptable for minors. And what on earth is it about M/R-rated items anyway that minors should not see anyway? What is so special about violence or nudity that we cannot allow minors to see it? I find it odd that you can have sex by 14/16 but you can't watch an R-rated movie before 17 just because it contains a nipple.

[Flyingdebris]

Dammit, my florida!

Now, this is personal! Nobody passes hamfist regulations on videogames in MY state!

[CptStern]

Dammit, my florida!

Now, this is personal! Nobody passes hamfist regulations on videogames in MY state!


words to live by:

"First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me."

Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945


ok not really comparable to the holocaust, but hopefully you get my meaning

[mortiz]

It's been illegal to sell 18 rated video games to minors over here for years, and the UK is still the 3rd biggest video game consumer.

I doubt game developers who make violent video games will start cutting content in order to get the lowest rating possible, if they did that they'd be acknowledging that minors make up a major proportion of their sales, in which case the ESRB (as it is) was useless anyway. It'd make it worse for developers in the long run.

Jack Thompson is a complete jackass who has reacted to this situation like a 12 year old getting bullied at school. However I don't think enforced ratings will be the death of the games industry, it won't be that easy for Thompson.

[CptStern]

yes but brits arent famous for having knee jerk reactions ...the US on the other hand .............

[riomhaire]

Wait. If I understand that correctly he is writing a bill that makes something already illegal...illegal?

[kirovman]

Wait. If I understand that correctly he is writing a bill that makes something already illegal...illegal?

I guess that's what all his life amounts to.

Ranting about illegal things, and so introducing legislation to make illegal things illegal.

[operative x]

I haven't been in a fight since 8th grade... I'm in college now. I have been gaming since Super Mario Bros on the Super Nintendo, you don't see me jumping on peoples heads do you? How has games made me more violent? Anyone care to explain this to me?

[CptStern]

I haven't been in a fight since 8th grade... I'm in college now. I have been gaming since Super Mario Bros on the Super Nintendo, you don't see me jumping on peoples heads do you? How has games made me more violent? Anyone care to explain this to me?

they're not "games" they're "murder simulators" :O

[kirovman]

I haven't been in a fight since 8th grade... I'm in college now. I have been gaming since Super Mario Bros on the Super Nintendo, you don't see me jumping on peoples heads do you? How has games made me more violent? Anyone care to explain this to me?

I stomped a few Goombas after taking Magic Mushrooms the other day

[CptStern]

hmmm were they "made-men"? or just "soldiers"?

[kirovman]

Neither, huge walking mushrooms! And their friends, the Koopa Troopas!

I tell you, this video gaming lark has to stop before someone gets hurt by Bowser's minions!

^^Which is pretty much the ridiculous level of debate that Jack Thompson is open to^^

[Sulkdodds]

The BBFC should castrate them. Less fuss.

Fixed.

[operative x]

Although when i first played metal gear solid on psx, i had the urge to go sneak around my aprtment complex pretending i was being chased (4th grade). Should i feel guilty?

[Sulkdodds]

/me snaps Operative x's neck

[operative x]

/me goes to play metal gear solid: VR missions for more training...

[ailevation]

Nintedo's evil plot... most of their games are T or E.

With these laws enforced where only adults may only purchase M and AO videogames, this leaves teens and children only to purchase T and E games, when they're alone.

Gabe Newell, is the leader of the Alliance.

*Salutes*

[Jintor]

Haha, Riomhaire went straight to the heart of the matter.

[Computer5k]

I have no problem with this applying to m rated games. It's just with JAck he will probably ban the sale of 'violent' games, not M rated. That would include pretty much every T rated game and a handful of E rated games :/

[Cole]

So what will this do?
Wal-Mart and Target already wont sell games to minors, all this is doing is nothing...the mom and dad will just buy it for there kid....The kid is the parents responsibility, if the parent believes that a game with killing cops and sex is ok for there child well thats THE PARENTS FAULT. It isn't the games. It isn't the kids. If the parent lets the kid by the game the parent is saying "My kid is old enough to play this game". Theres nothing more to discuss. Going after developers isn't what should be done. Going after the parents, telling the parents that it's not ok to let there 8 year old play GTA or Killzone, we must inform the parents that is the only flaw that is going on.
There are some kids who wont go "omfg im gonna murder cops now cuz in GTA I do it all the time". Yes some kids are just ****ing insane and shouldn't be allowed, and the parents should relize this and not let them play the games.

God Jack is so ****ing stupid. He isn't doing shit.

[Absinthe]

Part of me calls bullshit. It's a little publicity stunt.

Then the other part of me says that, considering the amount of idiot politicians that exist, it's true.

[Flyingdebris]

"First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for video games, and i was forced to strafe double jump headshot the fat lot of them while spamming nades."

[Zeus]

oh snap...he's writing a law to do the same thing thats already in effect. :O

[Fliko]

"First they came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for video games, and i was forced to strafe double jump headshot the fat lot of them while spamming nades."
I had to laugh.

If they ban video games. I bet you, within 1 month, there will be atleast 1 assassination within the first week. The victim would probably be Jack Thompson, then crimes will increase. They are fairly stupid to think getting rid of video games will decrese crime, when infact, it will do the opposite.
World War 3 anyone?
Ok... not WW3, but, you know what I mean.

[Shinobi]

read the news story update

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/38937


aparently jeb bush kows nothing about it and jack is pretty much outright lying

[gh0st]

Repeatedly, Thompson has called for states to pass laws criminalizing the sale of M-for-Mature rated games to minors.

what a BITCH! grab your torches men, this asshole is trying to prevent smut from going into the hands of minors! LETS KILL HIM. :dozey: this is getting tired.

[CptStern]

read the news story update

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/38937


aparently jeb bush kows nothing about it and jack is pretty much outright lying


hah he's quite the nutcase:

In a telephone conversation with Mr. Thompson today, he told INQ hacks that policy advisors to the Governor contacted him – as opposed to Thompson contacting the office of Governor Bush as the press office is telling us – and that he would be willing to go under a polygraph – lie detector to you and me – to confirm this


"though Thompson says that he is too busy drafting the legislation to bother having a tit-for-tat verbal battle and he considers his position clear and the matter closed"


I predict sooner or later he will have a nervous breakdown, go on a shooting spree at the local chucky cheese screaming WONT SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!! and plead inncoent due to insanity saying that games drove him to kill :rolling:


what a BITCH! grab your torches men, this asshole is trying to prevent smut from going into the hands of minors! LETS KILL HIM. this is getting tired.

dont respond, simple as that

[OCybrManO]

It's up to your parents to judge, based on the ESRB rating, whether or not you should be playing certain games... not the government. If your parents don't pay enough attention to your life and let you do anything, that's their fault. I guess the next step would be making talking to your children about sex illegal unless they're 18. Then, television channels would be fined for talking about violent crimes on the news... because the signals are broadcast freely in the air... able to be picked up by anyone with a TV antenna. Where will the line be drawn dividing parents' responsibilities and those of the government? Will you enjoy your impenetrable moral protection bubble? I won't. I want to live in the real world... not Jack Thompson's wet dream.

Now, if the owner of a business doesn't want to sell them to minors... that's fine, because it's self regulation... and it's generally good for business. When the government steps in it's attempting to regulate morality. In most of the USA, (last time I checked) it's not illegal for children to get into R-rated movies... but it's common for theaters to require parental permission/supervision. That's the way game sales are right now (last time I checked)... and the way they should stay.

[Flyingdebris]

Oh Mr. thompson...

one day he's going to piss off the wrong gamer, step outside, and BA-BA-BAM, Headshotted 3 times by some aimbotting,wallhacking, speedhacker, who screams out "lololol zergrush!!!11111 kekekekeke ^_^" and bunnyhops away

[Kyorisu]

When people go around yelling "Lets kill the bastard" your pretty much agreeing with what Thompson is saying.

I say we all buy him a huge bunch of flowers and wait for his reaction.

[Pesmerga]

LOL.

What the hell, my mom buys my games. Newbs.

[gh0st]

dont respond, simple as that
ill stop responding when you stop posting this idiotic drivel, and quit your stupid slippery slope theories that somehow video games are going to be annihilated. they wont any more than rap music during tipper gore's day.

[CptStern]

ya you remember it well because you were how old?

[gh0st]

ya you remember it well because you were how old?
well thank goodness the rest of the world uses your logic. thats probably why we dont study ancient rome or the revolutionary war, as our historians would have actually had to BE there to have any valid assertions.

[OCybrManO]

I'd look at the Jack Thompson situation more as what happened to comic books rather than the rantings against the newfangled music types. The comic book industry was nearly destroyed by the government. It only exists as a shell of its former self... with much of the variety not surviving the censorship. I don't want Jack Thompson and his followers to be able to do anything that to the video game industry.

[Mr-Fusion]

What happened to the comic book industry? I'm curious.

[OCybrManO]

Well, it really picked up steam in the 1950s when a man named Dr. Fredrick Wertham published a book called Seduction of the Innocent... claiming that comic books cause juvenile delinquency (for one thing, he only studied the bad kids... with no comparisons to normal ones). There were Senate hearings. Politicians finally had something to blame instead of the parents. The "Comics Code Authority" was formed to prevent them from being completely banned outright... but the censorship was too strict. It wasn't just a rating system like the ESRB or the MPAA where you could do practically anything you wanted but it would just get a bad rating and places like Wal-Mart wouldn't sell it... you just plain couldn't mention things, make certain activities look appealing, joke about divorce, etc... period. Even the industry giant EC Comics was all but put out of business. Basically, the comics that survived were the basic superhero comics... and other dumbed-down "moral" stories. The comic books became significantly watered down because parents and politicians used them as scapegoats. Their paranoia and quickness to place the blame on everyone but themselves nearly destroyed an entire industry/medium/art form/storytelling method.

Joel Grineau, in Origin of the Comics Code Authority. Comic Book Conundrum 12, writes that Wertham was convinced that all comic books, not just crime comic books, were “evil, that they contributed to the delinquency of minors and also to their sexual perversion” (Grineau).Gabriel describes Wertham’s attitude toward comic books in Seduction as being “almost (a) demonical hatred.” He credits Wertham with “nearly succeed(ing) in destroying the industry”Hmmm... who does that sound like?

This is a serious matter. It has already almost happened once or twice before in the gaming industry. Do you remember the Nintendo Seal of Approval? That was to tell parents that the game wasn't inappropriate (as well as the "quality" aspect). They worked on a system of trust... because the industry was starting to gather interest by people that thought it was harmful. That slowed down the opposition for a while. The next time games were being (or about to be) attacked, the ESRB was formed. Once again, it kept games from having censorship imposed on them... and it kept games from being banned. So far, that has worked. Jack Thompson, on the other hand, doesn't think it's good enough. He, like Fredrick Wertham, would like to destroy the entire industry. He's trying to impose a certain system of beliefs onto the entire country... to protect "good" Christians from being exposed to the evils of our hobby. He's using the same shitty logic used back in the 50s for his reasons to get rid of games. Once again, it's never the parents' fault that their child turned out to be a murderer... it's video games, or rock music, or rap music, or sex, or alcohol, or comic books, or movies, or TV, or novels, or radio shows... but never bad parenting.

[kirovman]

Yes, I mean it couldn't possibly come down to individual responsibility, could it?

I'm tired of people using scapegoats. They're drafting up laws without any backup from any kind of study at all? With no real data or evidence?

That's not what a democracy is about.

Let's ban freedom of speech because I believe it's morally wrong and causes premature death in 68% of people.

[Sulkdodds]

Lots.

Phew, I thought I was going to have to explain all that. :cheers:

Of course, with comics they managed to come back because the CCA only affected stuff sold on newstands, and with the onsent of the specialist comic shop the industry started up again. Now you get Transmetropolitan, 100 Bullets and Just A Pilgrim.

[Llama]

I do, seriously doubt that Thompson - anyone - has the power to shut down the games industry. It is just so enormous, it's cripple the worlds ecomony for a start.
Can you really imagine EA rolling over on it's side and accepting it's own forced death?
Can you hell

[Sulkdodds]

No. I can imagine them simply releasing millions of crappy, family-friendly games. Forever.

[Flyingdebris]

it would never work. If the big companies are forced to churn out family friendly drivel, those who would strive for more maturity (i use maturity here very loosly) would simply turn to more underground games and mods on the internet.

Of course that would mean quality would take a major nose dive and the industry would be set back years in terms of quality. But you wouldn't be able to stop games alltogether.

However i wouldn't want it to come to that cause that would really suck. We just have to make sure that we have politicians like that one video game advocate guy to beat back the paranoia of overambitious politicians and overbearing soccer moms.

[CptStern]

it would never work. If the big companies are forced to churn out family friendly drivel, those who would strive for more maturity (i use maturity here very loosly) would simply turn to more underground games and mods on the internet..

or they could simply distribute online ....Gabe was on to something when they created steam

[Bob_Marley]

Ah yes, the good old "blame something, anything, other than the parents" approcah. It must be somthing else, it couldnt possibly be the parents could it? Lets face it most of us have been exposed to violence for most of our lives (I cant remember a time when I didnt watch Tom & Jerry [and dont tell me a mouse using dynamite on a cat isnt violent]) and most of us turn out perfectly fine. Its just a few total idiots who have screwed up lives that makes them go nuts and start killing people. I watched Films like Full Metal Jacket and Universal Soldier before I was 10 and have being plaing violent computer games forever (or so it seems, I cant remember a time before Operation Wolf was on The amstrad) and I've never gone nuts and wasted people. Nor have I done silly things like brandish replica firearms in public (stay focused, this isnt about the VCRB *slaps self round face*). If anything, watching those kind of things (of course combined with good parenting) has made me even more sensible in my approach to anything that might cause harm to people, because I know that guns arnt a joke. Shoot some one and thats somthing that cant be undone. In real life there is no quick save or reset button. Everything is final.

In short, Children need to be taught about the dangers that things like firearms can pose to people (living on a farm with a number of shotguns and air rifles [all safely locked up] ment that at a very young age I was told that you never point a gun at someone, loaded or not, and why) Good parents dont turn out nut cases. neither do voilent computer games.