US rewrites nuke laws to allow for pre-emptive strikes

[CptStern]

Pentagon document would alter nuclear weapons plan (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050911/pl_nm/arms_usa_nuclear_dc)

"According to the document, combatant commanders could request approval from the president to use nuclear weapons under a variety of scenarios, such as to pre-empt an enemy's use of weapons of mass destruction against the United States, multinational or alliance forces or civilian populations.

Commanders could seek approval to use nuclear weapons in the face of an enemy's imminent biological weapons attack that "only effects from nuclear weapons can safely destroy," the document said."



so in other words had this doctrine been in place prior to march 2003 Iraq might actually look a little bit like this (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/images/iraq-crater.jpg)

[Murray]

Egad! :O

[Lemonking]

better them then us

[Tr0n]

Better you then them and us.

Hopefully a nuke will land on you lemon. Then I will come along and stab you in the eye with a pencil (If you aren't vaporized already).

[Lemonking]

I know your joking

[Tr0n]

I'm not.

[Lemonking]

Oh yes you are joking

[bliink]

Oh good... so when cold war II starts with Russia or China, we're all gonna be killed in a horrible nuclear holocaust.

See Dr. Strangeglove for more info on how this will happen.

[JellyWorld]

Oh good... so when cold war II starts with Russia or China, we're all gonna be killed in a horrible nuclear holocaust.

See Dr. Strangeglove for more info on how this will happen.
/me goes to torrent reactor.

[Murray]

Oh good... so when cold war II starts with Russia or China, we're all gonna be killed in a horrible nuclear holocaust.

See Dr. Strangeglove for more info on how this will happen.
Can I be the one riding the rocket? :bounce:

[bliink]

Can I be the one riding the rocket? :bounce:

YEEEEE HAWWWW!!!!

[Tr0n]

*Insert naughty joke here*

[Mr-Fusion]

Yeah i'd pay money to see blinxx riding a rocket.

Oh Oh OH too far. Banned. You've just gone too far. Thanks tron thanks man..

[Icarusintel]

nukes rock!
personally, being nuked wouldn;t be such a bad way to go, it's very quick

[Sulkdodds]

Well.......shit.

[DiSTuRbEd]

I'm not.

This man never kids around.

[Mechagodzilla]

Oh hell no

[Ren.182]

Wahay!! We're all gonna die in a nuclear winter...

:|

[Teta_Bonita]

haha America is gonna nuke you! haha!
:E

[CptStern]

nukes rock!
personally, being nuked wouldn;t be such a bad way to go, it's very quick



....unless you dont happen to be in the epicentre of the blast ..oh wait you're american ...never mind ;)




better them then us


fool, with nukes everyone is affected

[Mechagodzilla]

The question is now how long it'll be before Iran or (more likely) NK are nuked, I guess.
Frig, it's a new cold war already.

[Ren.182]

The trouble is, if America launches, so does the rest of the world. Thats a lot of nukes flying about he place.

Why do we invent such horrible weapons? :(

[Dr. Freeman]

its all slowly coming together for WW3 :|
it'll take one dumbass to start things off :(

[CptStern]

it'll take one dumbass to start things off :(


"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." - GW Bush

[baxter]

it'll take one dumbass to start things off

One Dumbass (http://weather.ou.edu/~mjames/albums/yfp/red00000.jpg)

[Sulkdodds]

This does not bode well. In fact it positively bodes ill. :eek:

[kirovman]

It'll be the innocents that suffer, again.

[Mr-Fusion]

Well we can only hope there's a civil uprising in the U.S to remove the goons from power. When the U.S government starts beating the war drum again "North Korea has WMD" , "Iran has WMD" blah blah, then it will be go time. Storm the whitehouse with guns blazing.

[kirovman]

Or, vote them out of office.

[VictimOfScience]

Wahay!! We're all gonna die in a nuclear winter...

:|

A great song (http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/sodom/persecutionmania.html#1) brought to us by Sodom.

A morbid reality (http://www.thedayaftertomorrow.com/site/us/downloads/desktops/main/tdat_dt1_sm.jpg) brought to us by warmongers.

Scary news, but nothing anyone who grew up during the Cold War should be super-surprised by, especially given the state of world affairs and US foreign policy.

DISCLAIMER: I know the movie doesn't involve nuclear holocaust, but you get the idea.

[Absinthe]

Awesome! We're one step closer to a nuclear war! Let me get my camera.

[mortiz]

Well, I'm going to die sometime, so going with the rest of the world doesn't seem so bad. At least I'll get to see it :E !

[Sulkdodds]

I love blood and violence! I got a boner for murder!

[The Monkey]

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." - GW Bush
Here it is. (http://media.brainthink.com/video_temp/bushfool-low.mpeg)

[Icarusintel]

....unless you dont happen to be in the epicentre of the blast ..oh wait you're american ...never mind ;)
at least i won;t die a slow, painful death from radiation burns and cancer... have fun with that, by the way

[CptStern]

at least i won;t die a slow, painful death from radiation burns and cancer... have fun with that, by the way


meh, I wont stick around long enough to find out :D

[Lemonking]

....unless you dont happen to be in the epicentre of the blast ..oh wait you're american ...never mind ;)







fool, with nukes everyone is affected



we could use a smalll one, If we need to

[kirovman]

we could use a smalll one, If we need to

Using a small one won't stop someone from lobbing a nuke back at you.

[CptStern]

we could use a smalll one, If we need to


radiation doesnt care about size








and what kirovman said

[Lemonking]

well If we aim it at the right spot......na

to be honest I hope it never comes so far,and Im sure it never will to be honest

[Sulkdodds]

Do you really trust your government around phrases like 'pre-emptive strike'?

[Lemonking]

well the public out cry would be so overwhelming,I just think they would never do it

[Raziaar]

I don't like this one bit. Nuclear weapons scare the bajebus out of me.

[baxter]

"I'm a war president. I make decisions here in the Oval Office in foreign policy matters with war on my mind."
- NBC's "Meet the Press", February 8, 2004

Maybe we should be a touch concerned.

[French Ninja]

The trouble is, if America launches, so does the rest of the world. Thats a lot of nukes flying about he place.
"Fiah ze Mizziles!"
;)

[Sulkdodds]

AAAH MOTHERLAND!!!

:p

[Nih]

And in Australia they're still like, "wtf mate ^^"

[Jintor]

...

I resent that. Here, have a prawn. Straight from the barbie.

[Sainku]

As long it keeps those damn commies from sapping and impurifying all of my precious bodily fluids.

[Pesmerga]

nukes rock!
personally, being nuked wouldn;t be such a bad way to go, it's very quick

Unless you're caught anywhere in a non-lethal distance. Then you die of radiation.

[Korgoth]

This ones for you Iran!

[The Mullinator]

I am pretty certain that this is only being done as a way for the US to say something like "we mean business" and is never meant to be used. However I am actually extremelly surprised that something like this was never done early on during the cold war.

[Top Secret]

What happened to the good old days when people were killed by shooting and stabbing eachother?

[Raziaar]

I am pretty certain that this is only being done as a way for the US to say something like "we mean business" and is never meant to be used. However I am actually extremelly surprised that something like this was never done early on during the cold war.

I kind of think this is what its for too... but its still scary. However, I do recognize that most of the people in the military and such are likely family men... with loved ones, and not mindless, inhuman, uncaring, unfeeling automatons... and wouldnt just launch nukes carelessly. It would likely require some SERIOUS, SERIOUS proof that something bad is going to go down to be launched pre-emptively. But still, I doubt that.

[Absinthe]

Doesn't matter wether it's likely to happen or what the underlying intent behind the rewriting was. All it takes is some idiot in the future to use this now legally-sanctioned tactic.

What this essentially does is put the "okey-dokey" stamp on a pre-emptive nuclear strike. It's only a matter of time before we become accustomed to it and the thought of its usage no longer seems so alien to us.

[Raziaar]

Doesn't matter wether it's likely to happen or what the underlying intent behind the rewriting was. All it takes is some idiot in the future to use this now legally-sanctioned tactic.

What this essentially does is put the "okey-dokey" stamp on a pre-emptive nuclear strike. It's only a matter of time before we become accustomed to it and the thought of its usage no longer seems like so alien to us.


Well honestly, the ability to strike pre-emptively is a good thing. It can help save many innocent lives, when you absolutely know an enemy is going to attack and you beat him to it and catch him off guard.


However... we're talking about nuclear weapons... so its a whole different ballgame.

[Absinthe]

I was referring specifically to a pre-emptive nuclear attack.

Pre-emptive strikes aren't altogether bad. If you have sufficient, cross-checked, undeniable evidence of an imminent threat, then you have every right to take your enemy out before you get hit. That's common sense.

The nuclear option, however, is off-limits IMO. The amount of civilian casualties caused would never be worth it.

[The Mullinator]

Doesn't matter wether it's likely to happen or what the underlying intent behind the rewriting was. All it takes is some idiot in the future to use this now legally-sanctioned tactic.

What this essentially does is put the "okey-dokey" stamp on a pre-emptive nuclear strike. It's only a matter of time before we become accustomed to it and the thought of its usage no longer seems so alien to us.
Any idiotic leader could do it in the past. All this has done is make it legal on paper. In reality though it wouldn't make a difference whether that idiot is around before or after this is passed.

[Raziaar]

I was referring specifically to a pre-emptive nuclear attack.

Pre-emptive strikes aren't altogether bad. If you have sufficient, cross-checked, undeniable evidence of an imminent threat, then you have every right to take your enemy out before you get hit. That's common sense.

The nuclear option, however, is off-limits IMO. The amount of civilian casualties caused would never be worth it.

While I agree with you... part of me still seems to scream out, "But that only leads to the mindset of 'Retaliate only when attacked first and destroyed'."

But... oh well. I dunno. I really abhor nuclear weapons.

[Absinthe]

Any idiotic leader could do it in the past. All this has done is make it legal on paper. In reality though it wouldn't make a difference whether that idiot is around before or after this is passed.

I'm not saying that it was an impossibility in the past. I'm saying that the legal system is just one less barrier in the way. One last thing to consider. One more step in the wrong direction.
The effect it has in the short and long-term is something I can't predict with any accuracy, but I'd prefer not to gamble it.

[Mechagodzilla]

I agree with absinthe.

Just look at how the last pre-emptive strike turned out. There should be as many barriers as possible to prevent nuclear mistakes.

[Raziaar]

I agree with absinthe.

Just look at how the last pre-emptive strike turned out. There should be as many barriers as possible to prevent nuclear mistakes.

If you're talking about the WWII nukes, that's one area we're going to have to agree to disagree.

[Fliko]

Pre-emptive Strike Definition:
"Striking someone before they looked at you funny"

[baxter]

WASHINGTON (Kyodo) The U.S. military is considering allowing regional combatant commanders to request presidential approval for pre-emptive nuclear strikes against possible attacks with weapons of mass destruction on the United States or its allies, according to a draft nuclear operations paper


I would normally just laugh at him but this is actually serious and very frightening.
Not only does it go against the Nuclear Non proliferation Treaty, whereby a nuclear power would not use nuclear weapons against non nuclear states, and equally importantly would not promote or escalate its nuclear arsenal.

It also goes against the entire principle of having these dreadful weapons.
The entire world is sold on the principle that these weapons are a necessary evil to ensure world peace.

To introduce new weapons such as the bunk buster nukes and battle field tactical nukes is to some how install a mind set whereby these weapons are useful in everyday combat situations.

This document, as well as suggesting pre emptive strikes are justifiable also suggests the use of the nuclear weapons against “numerous nonstate organizations (terrorist, criminal) and about 30 nations with WMD programs, including many regional states” could be considered.

This is madness.

[dream431ca]

Pre-emptive Strike Definition:
"Striking someone before they looked at you funny"

In other words, Pre-emptive strike is a doctored word of Attack.

So instead of someone attacking a nation, they "Pre-emptive striked" a nation, which makes it ok. :hmph:

[Raziaar]

In other words, Pre-emptive strike is a doctored word of Attack.

So instead of someone attacking a nation, they "Pre-emptive striked" a nation, which makes it ok. :hmph:

That's not what pre-emptive strike means.

[shadow6899]

were ****ed, may we all live past 2012 D:

[Reaktor4]

woot. i love america more and more every day.

[RabidMeatloaf]

Pre-emptive nuke strikes FTW!!

[Raziaar]

were ****ed, may we all live past 2012 D:

You know that number, 2012 has always played in my head ever since I was in my early teens, as the end days date. Dunno why.

[Sparta]

Wasn't 2012 something to do with Terminator 2? Or isn't that the year the Mayan Calander ends?

[Raziaar]

Wasn't 2012 something to do with Terminator 2? Or isn't that the year the Mayan Calander ends?

Wasn't at all influenced by that.

[CptStern]

Wasn't 2012 something to do with Terminator 2? Or isn't that the year the Mayan Calander ends?


the Maya thingy (http://www.levity.com/eschaton/Why2012.html)

[Sulkdodds]

My god, my media project was set in 2012. And in it, the world ended. Co-incidence? :eek:

[kirovman]

London olympic games in 2012? Coincidense, i think not!

:tinfoilhat:

[Absinthe]

I will tie my shoes in 2012, assuming I still have feet, or if I'm not using those bitchin' velcro laces.

THERE'S A CONNECTION HERE

[little.rebel]

nukes rock!
personally, being nuked wouldn;t be such a bad way to go, it's very quick
unless u are on the outskirts of the blast and become irradiated, that would be a pretty shit way to die, i mean necrossis and everything.

But i do agree with it actually, i mean it wouldnt have made sense in 2003 and be quite scary, but they knew saddam diddnt have effective bio-weapons anyway.
After all they knew pretty much everything going on in iraq and went in for oil. It would definately been unnecesary to a large extent, but i suppose if u think about it, it would definately been a sound way to passify the country. It would have been totally inhumane to do that anyway.

With that aside, todays eventualities are another matter, they invaded iraq, but if they were really removing the most evil regimes they would actually have concentrated on its neighbour iran. Having left it and left it futher, iran is definately a serious threat, it makes its own nukes now and god-knows what else, and ofcourse that they are really evil is self evident when they parade with banners saying we will crush america and the west and takeover the world.

They would need this pre-emptive stike for that reason. Also for that threat specific threat mentioned in the first post, for if they, or anybody else unleased a bioloical form of weapon in danger of wiping out humanity or the planet. Biological weapons are becomming ever more dangerous and could be one of the biggest threats, the only way to deal with an outbreak of whatever bio-strike, wether its bubonic plague, viral infestation of somesort or virus-disease, is indeed to nuke in the case of a critical situation, beacuse only the blast and radiation could kill the matter. I suppose it would be an efective response in such a major crisis, to destroy these things in case of them being an imminent threat.

Ofcourse wen it comes to nuclear war, if it was a full scale nuclear exchange and resulting holocaust, we would be all pretty much buggered. Most people would die, maybe in the aftermath of such a catastrophe some people would survive. Well in some form or another, maybe like a race of radioactive freaks and stuff like that, gone back to to being beasts in the oblivion.