Dedicated Physics Processors

[DarkStar]

Well, it looks like these puppies are going to be coming down the pipe at some point in the near future. For the uninitiated these are special processors for computers that will handle all of a game's physics (much like a graphics card handles 3D graphics) and promises to really amp up what is possible in terms of believeable physics in gaming. By off-loading physics to a dedicated processor, the burden on the CPU is dramatically reduced. Thus, not only will the physics in games be better, but the CPU will be freed up allowing improvements in other areas such as AI. A company called Ageia is coming out with the first one, which they are calling the "PhysX" chip. Personally, I'm inclined to think that game physics will become ever more important in next-generation games, so I'm pretty excited about this stuff. Here's some more info:

http://www.ageia.com/index.html
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1817922,00.asp

I was just wondering if anyone had any opinions on these.

[Noobulon]

Yeah, I read a big article about the PhysX a while back.

Currently, an impressive scene will have about 30 - 100 physics objects in it.
With a PPU like PhysX, that goes up to 6000 objects, with no hit on the CPU.
Not bad for a chip which will cost around £70

[DarkStar]

I'm seriously thinking about buying a new rig as soon as these things are supported suffieciently by enough games.

Which begs the question: When will that be?

[duffers20]

So am I right in saying that you would run one of these cards along side your existing gfx card? Probably a stupid question, but I'm not entirely sure.

[J_Tweedy]

pci? pci-e?

[DarkStar]

So am I right in saying that you would run one of these cards along side your existing gfx card? Probably a stupid question, but I'm not entirely sure.

Yes, it just does physics. Not graphics.

pci? pci-e?

I'm fairly sure that these are far enough down the road that they'll generally be pci-e, although I could be wrong.

[Xune]

I really think that with the CPU left to manage co-ordination and processing of AI algorithms (AI cards will be the next big thing, you mark my words) games will truely open up into unlimited interactive worlds, and not just the sandboxes we have today. Even HL2 had it's limitations, with it's linear and rather small maps.

The biggest name to be supporting this chip is Unreal Tournament 3. I've never been a big fan of these games but this engine has traditionally been adopted for productions of a vast number of games, and therein lie the possabilities.

To answer a few questions and misconceptions:

Aegia are the developers of the technology behind the PhysX card, however Asus will be the first manufacturers to be making the boards.

I highly doubt that they will be available for £70, considering that they are first generation bleeding edge tech. The article in the first posts estimates them to be available in the US at about $250. So we in the UK should expect a price tag of at least £150 with vat.

As for release, Aegia have said several times that they want it out for christmas. I don't know the viability of that but you can bet that it'll be available for the release of UT3 otherwise they will have really dropped the ball.

It appears that the card has been designed as a stand alone card running along side the graphics and sound cards, however there has also been talk of integrating them into graphics cards. In my opinion this is just stupid.

PCI? PCI-E? Yes! Ha ha. Their concept board was double sided with both options, however it seems that the first boards will be PCI to appeal to everyone. Later versions will utilise different multiplications of PCI-E.

[duffers20]

I really think that with the CPU left to manage co-ordination and processing of AI algorithms (AI cards will be the next big thing, you mark my words) games will truely open up into unlimited interactive worlds, and not just the sandboxes we have today. Even HL2 had it's limitations, with it's linear and rather small maps.

The biggest name to be supporting this chip is Unreal Tournament 3. I've never been a big fan of these games but this engine has traditionally been adopted for productions of a vast number of games, and therein lie the possabilities.

To answer a few questions and misconceptions:

Aegia are the developers of the technology behind the PhysX card, however Asus will be the first manufacturers to be making the boards.

I highly doubt that they will be available for £70, considering that they are first generation bleeding edge tech. The article in the first posts estimates them to be available in the US at about $250. So we in the UK should expect a price tag of at least £150 with vat.

As for release, Aegia have said several times that they want it out for christmas. I don't know the viability of that but you can bet that it'll be available for the release of UT3 otherwise they will have really dropped the ball.

It appears that the card has been designed as a stand alone card running along side the graphics and sound cards, however there has also been talk of integrating them into graphics cards. In my opinion this is just stupid.

PCI? PCI-E? Yes! Ha ha. Their concept board was double sided with both options, however it seems that the first boards will be PCI to appeal to everyone. Later versions will utilise different multiplications of PCI-E.

Thanks for the information, you have answered a number of questions on this subject :D

[Iced_Eagle]

Actually,

http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/9/0,1311,sz=1&i=97971,00.jpg

Isn't that PCI-E 1x on one side, and 16x on the other side?

Anyways, I'm sure these things will start to get more and more mainstream, once the technology matures and people _really_ start to see a difference and physics start to improve exponentially.

I honestly can't see this thing fail, because

A) The hardcore gamers know what physics in games can bring
B) They've been marketing it well (drawing parallels to graphics card and such)
C) Games need them!

AI cards? Meh, possibly, I would think that a lighting/shadow card would be next... (Rawr I can't find it, but there is a Radiosity card or something already being prototyped) Sure, you may think lighting/shadows would be utilized in the GPU, but think about how cramped and how much use that GPU is getting performing _every_ calculation and lighting and such.

As you know with like HDR getting used in games more and more (and soon in HL2), lighting is a key factor in creating believable games... Shadows goes hand and hand with that (sure Doom3 shadows were nice... but they were still hard-edged, and didn't fade like shadows actually do).... Although, there might be a significant jump in GPU's where they will be able to do all this without trouble, right now lighting is just too bleh in games (being pre-calculated and static in a lot of games)

Oh, and one thing I dearly dearly wish for, is for all these dedicated chips, to be combined into one, for ease of use.... I don't see that happening anytime soon though.

*Edit* Found a chip that is almost dedicated to ray-tracing. http://www.artvps.com/products.ihtml?page=pureoverview

Not the one I was talking about earlier, but just bringing it to your attention that those cards are out there.

[VictimOfScience]

Yes, I have been very interested in these since I first heard about them. Taking that load off the CPU is going to be huge and I can't wait to see what developers will create knowing that their physics will be processed this way. It should make for some REALLY amazing game environments!

[HunterSeeker]

I wonder if we will have standadized routines for physics like we have for graphics (DirectX and OpenGL).

[Teta_Bonita]

Are these gonna apear in any next-gen consoles? That could be a HUGE selling point if it's advertised right...

[Cole]

Are these gonna apear in any next-gen consoles? That could be a HUGE selling point if it's advertised right...
For the Xbox 360 and Ps3 I believe it's all done by the processor considering how.."good" they are. Though for Revolution..well we know soooooooo little no one can be sure.

[john121]

Just think of how games have grown in just 10 years.. castle wolfenstein, with 90 degree angle walls and whatnot... to games like F.e.a.r. and Half Life 2. Just imagine what they will be like in 5 years from now.

[duffers20]

Just think of how games have grown in just 10 years.. castle wolfenstein, with 90 degree angle walls and whatnot... to games like F.e.a.r. and Half Life 2. Just imagine what they will be like in 5 years from now.

From seeing screens and stuff from teh new unreal engine, you can't imagine what games will be like in 5 years. The technology for these games is moving so fast at the moment that you wonder if the games developers can keep up..

[Malfunction]

I think this is the next step up in gaming. I remember I read something a really long time saying that current CPUs can only handle like what waas it, 10-15 things of physics, but that a PPU could handle thousands.

Finally, no moe lagging in Garry's mod when I spawn in 100 explosive barrels and 200 Zombies. SCORE!

[Murray_H]

I hope it doesn't spawn a shit load of cards, so you need 50,000 slots for your grass card, a water refraction card, a water reflection card, a pebble-dashed stone wall card, a concrete wall card.....:p

[DEATH eVADER]

I think this is the next step up in gaming. I remember I read something a really long time saying that current CPUs can only handle like what waas it, 10-15 things of physics, but that a PPU could handle thousands.

Finally, no moe lagging in Garry's mod when I spawn in 100 explosive barrels and 200 Zombies. SCORE!


I think it was 30 I think. But to give you an idea I believe I saw one article that stated that todays processor's have only 1/6 (or 1/16) of the processor dedicated to physics

[diluted]

I think this is the next step up in gaming. I remember I read something a really long time saying that current CPUs can only handle like what waas it, 10-15 things of physics, but that a PPU could handle thousands.

Finally, no moe lagging in Garry's mod when I spawn in 100 explosive barrels and 200 Zombies. SCORE!
Or 2000 barrels and 500 zombies? :D

[kirovman]

So will this be a one off purchase, or are we going to have to upgrade our physics processors all the time to keep up with the latest games?

[DEATH eVADER]

So will this be a one off purchase, or are we going to have to upgrade our physics processors all the time to keep up with the latest games?

Probably upgrade over time. But the initial release will be enough to last me 2 years

[DarkStar]

Everybody has to keep in mind that games have to SUPPORT PPUs before they're advanced physics procressing routines can be taken advantage of.

Thus, unless Valve patches in SOURCE support for this Aeiga chip, your dreams of 500+ barrels colliding in Garry's Mod are just a pipedream.

[HunterSeeker]

Remeber that while your physics processor may handle 50000 ragdolls, will your GPU?

[Cole]

Remeber that while your physics processor may handle 50000 ragdolls, will your GPU?
Ummmmm....we'll make it!

[DEATH eVADER]

Everybody has to keep in mind that games have to SUPPORT PPUs before they're advanced physics procressing routines can be taken advantage of.

Thus, unless Valve patches in SOURCE support for this Aeiga chip, your dreams of 500+ barrels colliding in Garry's Mod are just a pipedream.


Ageira are cutting a deal with the creators of HAVOC to allow support for their physics system. Although the source version of HAVOC is highly modified, they might be able to support it.

[Xune]

To be honest, backwards compatability with physics engines would be nice but since those games were designed with just CPU processing in mind there wont be much of a difference (garry's mod probably the exception to the rule).

It won't be until games like UT3, ones that the had the PPU available throughout development, that we will really see the possabilities.

Plus the popular physics engines, HAVOC and MEQON, are yet to sign up to the card. Not that they won't, but until they do the PPU is just an expensive paperweight.