GREAT IDEA FOR VALVE (i think atleast)

[Ravioli]

Ok, i have thought of this alot, what about it?:


In the expansion, some time in it, you will have "flash backs" to Black Mesa, like a new map. The view is blurry (like in that mod, cant remember name) so its hard to see. The sound is like your under water, and your walknig speed is SLOW.

You walk throught black mesa BEFORE the incident, and you find out more about what happened. You meet Eli and he talks to you, and its helping you trying to solve the mystery of what really happened. The voice of the characters are Eco, slow, and sleepy. Then "FLOOSH" you wake up, and Alyx wakes you up.

Now THAT would be AWSOME!!! Maybe a few flash backs in some spots in the game, maybe one with G-man. Remember in hl1, you see gman (before the incident) talking to someone in a room. How about a flash back when you walk past that room, then all the sound stops, and you hear your heart beat, and your heavy breath....then the screen zooms in on G-man and he looks at you with his eyes and "FLOOSH", your back in City 17.

Maybe a flash back when you see Alyx as young!

Remember Gabe! Gordon has forgotten everything right? He is starting to remember.....this idea is GREAT valve :D

(please include me in Credits for a part of the story :D if you can)

You should really consider this, the fans would love it (i think)

That you are trying to solve the history, maybe some Easter Eggs in the flash backs!

EDIT: Some people think of this as "cut scenses" NO, thats not what i mean, i mean you PLAY in the flash backs, YOU walk around, YOU are playing...


EDIT AGAIN FOR THE MISS UNDERSTANDING PEOPLE:

You PLAY the flash back, its not a movie, YOU PLAY PLAY PLAY PLAY it...HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO SAY????????

[Samon]

Your idea fails.

[wilka91]

bad idea

[D€vIL²]

I agree with samon, the Ideas been done, and it works too! but It doesnt really fit into half-life.

[Alix Mcdean]

Wait wait, Gordon lost his memory?

...When?!

-Alix

[Solver]

Flashbacks don't fit into HL, really, it's about having control and being Gordon.

[DarkStar]

I think it sounds like a good idea.

[Samon]

And they arn't going to put you in the credits either :P

[wilka91]

they would never add a such thing because there are no interruptions during the game, no cinematics, no flashbacks ... it's about immersion, and Valve would never change this concept with HL2

[Megalomaniac]

There goal is to make you feel like you are Gordon Freeman, so flashbacks would be like seeing something you never were part of. They are going to put a mirror in the game because it would take away from you feeling like Freeman

[Spectre01]

I think that would be a waste of time that could be used to shoot some combine, or shoot some aliens with some teammates. HL2 had a great balance between character interaction and combat. I do not want to spend more than 10 minutes talking to people.

[Ravioli]

people, your getting me wrong. I mean you are PLAYING the flash backs, YOU walk around, YOU are in the flash back, YOU play the flash back, not a movie.

[special-ed]

I think he should wake up next to the gman on the beach in a bikini.. but that's just meh..

[Mechagodzilla]

No offense, but this just isn't a good idea.
It sounds like something out of doom 3.
Flashbacks, random slow-mo, blur effects, heavy breathing for no reason. Why bother when it adds nothing and turns the game into a cliche movie trailer?
I can honestly imagine the raspy-voiced narrator guy going:

"One man, in a world of the future..."

*flash* *slowmo kliener walking*

"...has to come to grips with the past..."

*flash* *flash* *blur effect* *slow-mo vortigaunt trips on a rock and falls on his face*

"..to save the future, which is his present, from the past."

*flash* *Gordon picks up a crowbar in BULLET-TIME.*

And then a some song by Nickelback plays while we watch various scenes from the game, each only lasting one second and accompanied by a *flash*.
Etc.

That two-second "flashback" in the opening sequence was more than enough.

[Kitfox]

no think i better idea would be Kliner figuring out a way o bend time and space with the teleporter.. so they send you back in time to recover some peice of equipment from blackmesa that would be crusial to defeating the combine.

[Mechagodzilla]

Time travel = :(

[Samon]

Dont even start on time travel. Laidlaw will NOT reduce his storyline to the most generic and horrible plot twist in sci fi.

[Solver]

Although something I can agree is that it would be interesting to see Black Mesa with HL2 graphics, especially Black Mesa before the Resonance Cascade. Then again, we'll have plenty of awesome environments in HL2AM. Heck, the Citadel by itself is worth a lot.

[AJ Rimmer]

Flashbacks like the one in the intro of HL2 was perfect, they could've made more like those (flashbacks of barney, maybe a few dead scientists and echoing voices), but only a few seconds short each. To walk around in essentially a dream but making conscious choices and having characters say things they did not say the first time around is... silly and metaphysically impossible.

[Sufferin-rebel]

yea it be pretty cool if them Flashbacks worked the same way Max paynes "Dream" levels worked

[Ennui]

I think he should wake up next to the gman on the beach in a bikini.. but that's just meh..
He did...

:O what, you missed the carribean expansion?

[Beerdude26]

no think i better idea would be Kliner figuring out a way o bend time and space with the teleporter.. so they send you back in time to recover some peice of equipment from blackmesa that would be crusial to defeating the combine.

K : "You need to find my wank rags! They are crucial to this mission!"
G : "..."
*Gordon crowbars Kleiner*

[el Chi]

Flashbacks like the one in the intro of HL2 was perfect, they could've made more like those (flashbacks of barney, maybe a few dead scientists and echoing voices), but only a few seconds short each. To walk around in essentially a dream but making conscious choices and having characters say things they did not say the first time around is... silly and metaphysically impossible.Yeah I liked that bit a lot. More of a stylistic thing than a physical one, and not overused. Bravo.

As for time-travel? It'd surprise and relieve me if it WASN'T an important element of the plot, but I wouldn't hold anyone else's breath...

[Edcrab]

Weren't flashbacks going to be a part of HL2, according to a Valve comment? Or did that just turn out to be the opening with the Gman's verbal introduction?

I've no idea how they'd turn out, but playable Black Mesa (in Source) segments would've been pretty neat, if a little out of character for a Valve game...

But meh, we're talking time and dimensional distortions I guess...

[Solver]

I'm sure time travel won't figure in the grand HL story. It's too overused in sci-fi now, and Marc Laidlaw is a better writer than that, he is more than capable of writing a good story without relying on time travel to explain it. Because no one knows how time travel really works, it's a good excuse to get away with pretty much very story. HL won't do that.

[Ravioli]

No offense, but this just isn't a good idea.
It sounds like something out of doom 3.
Flashbacks, random slow-mo, blur effects, heavy breathing for no reason. Why bother when it adds nothing and turns the game into a cliche movie trailer?
I can honestly imagine the raspy-voiced narrator guy going:

"One man, in a world of the future..."

*flash* *slowmo kliener walking*

"...has to come to grips with the past..."

*flash* *flash* *blur effect* *slow-mo vortigaunt trips on a rock and falls on his face*

"..to save the future, which is his present, from the past."

*flash* *Gordon picks up a crowbar in BULLET-TIME.*

And then a some song by Nickelback plays while we watch various scenes from the game, each only lasting one second and accompanied by a *flash*.
Etc.

That two-second "flashback" in the opening sequence was more than enough.

Are you stupid? Did you even read my post? is said:

YOU PLAY THE FLASH BACK, ITS NOT A MOVIE; YOU PLAY THE FLASH BACK

PLAYPLAY
PLAY
PLAY
PLAY
PLAY
PLAY
PLAY
PLAY

DO YOU GET ME NOW????????????????????????????????????????????

[Noobulon]

*flash* *flash* *blur effect* *slow-mo vortigaunt trips on a rock and falls on his face*

:laugh:

[Teh_Poet]

Are you stupid? Did you even read my post? is said:

YOU PLAY THE FLASH BACK, ITS NOT A MOVIE; YOU PLAY THE FLASH BACK

PLAYPLAY
PLAY
PLAY
PLAY
PLAY
PLAY
PLAY
PLAY

DO YOU GET ME NOW????????????????????????????????????????????

Calm down, it was a harmless joke.

[Mechagodzilla]

DO YOU GET ME NOW????????????????????????????????????????????

Okay same thing, only now you can move Gordon around and view the vortigaunt falling down from multiple angles.

There's already an entire game of flashbacks from black mesa.
They call it Half-Life and you can pick it up cheap at just about any local retail outlet.

[rpgprog]

good idea, but wont work. the day of the ressonance cascade was your first day at black mesa and you weren't around after that = no time that you could flashback to since it would be stupid to replay a part of the game already.

Oh wait, you could flashback to one of your MIT classes that would be interesting.

[DarkStar]

the day of the ressonance cascade was your first day at black mesa

Was it?

How do all the scientists know Freeman then?

And why was there a picture of Freeman as "employee of the month" in OpFor?

[Mechagodzilla]

He was officially hired May 5, and the RC was May 15.

His first day of work was at some point between those two dates. Probably a week before the boom.

[Jintor]

Hehe... Employee of the month within a week.

Real tough, scientist boy!

[AJ Rimmer]

Was it?

How do all the scientists know Freeman then?

And why was there a picture of Freeman as "employee of the month" in OpFor?

1. It was like his fourth day or sumthin like that
2. Easter egg. Nothing more.

[Mechagodzilla]

Freeman coulda got EotM for any number of reasons.
Maybe he slipped Breen a couple Franklins. :P

[Samon]

And it was in OP4, so its cannon :P

[el Chi]

I'm sure time travel won't figure in the grand HL story. It's too overused in sci-fi now, and Marc Laidlaw is a better writer than that, he is more than capable of writing a good story without relying on time travel to explain it. Because no one knows how time travel really works, it's a good excuse to get away with pretty much very story. HL won't do that.
"TIME, Dr. Freeman? Is it really that TIME again... You've done a great deal in a short TIME-span...these are extraordinary TIMES...if and when your TIME comes around again. In the meanTIME..."
The voice acting's usually impeccable, but the emphasis on that one little word in that speech really gets to me. Also it suggests that TIME may have something to do with it.
Like I said though, I hope not.

[AJ Rimmer]

There is nothing wrong with using time travel in sci-fi, it's just that it's very often poorly executed or thrown into the plot when they run out of other ideas.
G-man could pull it off though.

[Ravioli]

who said it was his first day?

Gordon knew Alyx, remember?

And Freeman have had coffy pause with Barney in the Caffeteria. Freeman has gone to bathroom. Freeman has downloaded porn in his office.

Half-life is just the day of the BOOM. Gordon could have worked there for 5 years....remember that you never meet barney in hl2, so he cant owe you that beer, so he must have owed it from the day before.
(and for you noobs that say you DO meet him........play blue shit)

[Samon]

who said it was his first day?

Gordon knew Alyx, remember?

And Freeman have had coffy pause with Barney in the Caffeteria. Freeman has gone to bathroom. Freeman has downloaded porn in his office.

Half-life is just the day of the BOOM. Gordon could have worked there for 5 years....remember that you never meet barney in hl2, so he cant owe you that beer, so he must have owed it from the day before.
(and for you noobs that say you DO meet him........play blue shit)

Gordon never knew Alyx. He was probably only aware of the fact that Azian was pregnant, or had given birth to alyx. And no he never worked there for 5 years, because we know he came in only a few days before.

[el Chi]

Gordon never knew Alyx. He was probably only aware of the fact that Azian was pregnant, or had given birth to alyx. And no he never worked there for 5 years, because we know he came in only a few days before.No we don't. We know he hadn't been working there that long, but I'm positive it wasn't only a matter of days.

[AJ Rimmer]

No we don't. We know he hadn't been working there that long, but I'm positive it wasn't only a matter of days.
Well he hadn't been cleared for retinal scanner access so a few days seem the most likely scenario.

[AIDisabled]

The reason why flashbacks suck--especially in a game--is that we know the protagonist will escape the predicament, we already know he's gonna get out. And any other chief characters featured in the flashback who are also there in the present will also make it out. Kinda kills the suspense.

That said, flashbacks are a lousy plot device. They work only if done by masters.

And time-travel. Lousiest SF plot resolution device. Once you involve time-travel, there's no point in doing anything at all. Because essentially someone could kill your protagonist's grandfather when he was a kid, and your protagonist wouldn't be there. No Gordon. No HL. No HL2. No Aftermath. No nothin'.

[Solver]

"TIME, Dr. Freeman? Is it really that TIME again... You've done a great deal in a short TIME-span...these are extraordinary TIMES...if and when your TIME comes around again. In the meanTIME..."
The voice acting's usually impeccable, but the emphasis on that one little word in that speech really gets to me. Also it suggests that TIME may have something to do with it.
Like I said though, I hope not.

Yup, I agree that the GMan puts a lot of emphasis on time, but I refuse to believe a Time-travel explanation. There are other time-related things in the HL story. Like, no one knows how much time exactly has passed between HL1 and HL2. Another possibility is that the time is slower in the Citadel than elsewhere, and so on.

[AIDisabled]

Another possibility is that the time is slower in the Citadel than elsewhere, and so on.

Interesting. But where is elsewhere? And why would time be slow on Citadel?

[Dalamari]

How about a level where you go through the ruins of the 7 hour war...maybe see some dead marines and stuff **cough Shepard cough** and old equipment

[Solver]

Elsewhere = outside of Citadel. It could be slow in the Citadel because of the Dark Fusion reactor. The theory of relativity states that time is relative and, in fact, it's related to gravity. Near sources of extreme gravity, like black holes, time is slower, from the perspective of those near it. During the Dark Energy chapter, Breen mentions singularity - he said that the portal to the Combine world would create singularity, IIRC. The portal was at least partially open during the final showdown, so it's possible that the gravity actually increased significantly near the reactor. I'm surely just raving, but this came into my mind when writing my previous reply.

[Laivasse]

I don't think the idea of time travel is inherently a bad thing. After all who doesn't love Back to the Future 2? :farmer:

And if there's going to be a "happily ever after" ending in HL3 or at any point then it has to end with something to do with the resonance cascade in HL1. After all, even if you do beat the bad guys now, mankind is practically extinct.

All the more reason not to have a happy ending then, maybe....

[Samon]

Interesting. But where is elsewhere? And why would time be slow on Citadel?

Because singularity collapses cause time to slow when nearby.

[el Chi]

Well he hadn't been cleared for retinal scanner access so a few days seem the most likely scenario.Are you sure? I was under the impression that, BM being a top secret high-security installation and all, he had limited access... Oh f*ckit, I don't care.
It just seemed that he was already well acquainted with many of the people in BMRF. Meh.

[Wilsonator]

You know what would be cool?

Having the G-Man send you back in time to halt the key events that would make the incident happen and cause the portal storms, except the combine don't want that so they find some portal and follow you, so you get combine in black mesa as well as all the old enemies, maybe even meet yourself, and you get to kill Breen while he's the BM Admin! :E

or winwinknudgenudgeacrossoverencounterwithracexorsheppardwinkwinknudgenudge

[riomhaire]

Yes and lets add cut-scenes too

[AIDisabled]

Aargh! For God's sake no cutscenes! Please!

[Danimal]

I personally think that would not fit. If that was implemented, many people will ask why it wasn't in the original Half-life 2.

[el Chi]

You know what would be cool?

Having the G-Man send you back in time to halt the key events that would make the incident happen and cause the portal storms, except the combine don't want that so they find some portal and follow you, so you get combine in black mesa as well as all the old enemies, maybe even meet yourself, and you get to kill Breen while he's the BM Admin! :E

or winwinknudgenudgeacrossoverencounterwithracexorsheppardwinkwinknudgenudgeNah. The G-Man, for whatever reason, wanted the resonance cascade to happen. He was in the Anomalous Materials lab and easily could have put a stop to it.

[Element88]

NEWSFLASH!!!

For all of you who think that HL2 would suck if it would involve time travel:

1.Half-Life's story was written in 1998. The year when dark energy was discovered.

Did any of you bother to find out what dark energy is?

- Dark energy is gravity repulsive. (Gravity Gun)
- Dark energy stretches space–time apart. (Traveling through space without

spending any time, teleportation, traveling through space without moving anywhere, time traveling)
- The final chapter of HL2 is named "Dark Energy".

2. Time traveling WAS IN HL2!!!

Remember when you come through the teleporter with Alyx and Dr. Kleiner says "It's been a week..." and bluh bluh bluh...
I don't remember exactly what he said, but it's been a whole week since you went through the teleported!!!
What do you think that means if not time traveling?!

3. Like somebody already said, time is a very important term for the G-Man.
If thats not good enough to prove that time is an important part of the game, so what is???

[Element88]

Jesus christ!
You play the game and miss everything!!!
How can you say G-Man wanted the resonance cascade to happen?
Remember the part when he was arguing with the scientist in the closed room?
WHAT DO YOU THINK HE WAS SHOUTING ABOUT?!
He was trying to tell them to stop everything!
G-Man knew about the cascade and it's consequences.

He knew about the Combine. He knew that Breen was a trator!
Breen was the one responsible for the cascade!!!
The scientists always say "We tried to warm the administrator, but he just would not listen"
Breen played pretty much the same role like the Nihilanth.
Trated his kind for the Combine and ruled the planet following the Combine's orders.

G-Man is the opposite of the Combine.
Do you remember the part in Opposing Force, at the end, when he says "A survivor. Reminds me of myself"?
What do you think that means?
G-Man's planet was conquered by the Combine when he was young, but he survived.
And now he's a member of a group who is trying to stop them and get everything back to order.

G-Man is not a man nor works for the government.
He took over the body of a high rank government official and gained control over the black ops.
After failing to convince the government to cancel the experiment, he decided to do it in the dirty way.

Remember when the sergeant in the boot camp in Opposing Force says "I don't know how your name appeared on the training list..." Or something like that?
G-Man chose one man to put an end to this mess.
He chose Shepard.
Remember the part where G-Man closes the door in front of your face and doesn't let you go back with the rest?
He wanted Shepard to go to Xen, to kill the Nihilanth.
G-Man was watching Freeman.
He saw that Freeman came closer and closer to the teleport.
G-Man set the whole army against him.
THAT IS WHY THE ARMY WASN'T THREATING YOU LIKE THE REST OF THE SCIENTISTS!
Freeman was a big enemy now.
And when the black-ops captured Freeman, you remember that don't you, G-Man was sure Freeman is dead.
But then Mr. Freeman came and went into the teleporter in from of Shepard's face!
G-Man's plan was ruined.
His last try to put an end to this was to blow up the facility with a nuclear bomb.
It didn't work, but G-Man didn't totally fail.
Freeman impressed him. G-Man gave Freeman Shepard's job because he was better.
As for Shepard, G-Mans employers, the anti-combine group, found Shepard useless.
He knew everything and failed to do something.
They wanted to kill him.
But even G-Man has emotions.
He didn't want to kill the man he belived in.
"I will send you to a place where you can't hurt anybody and nobody can hurt you"

THIS MAKES PERFECT SENSE!

[IonizeMyAtoms]

Jesus christ!
You play the game and miss everything!!!
How can you say G-Man wanted the resonance cascade to happen?
Remember the part when he was arguing with the scientist in the closed room?
WHAT DO YOU THINK HE WAS SHOUTING ABOUT?!
He was trying to tell them to stop everything!
G-Man knew about the cascade and it's consequences.

He knew about the Combine. He knew that Breen was a trator!
Breen was the one responsible for the cascade!!!
The scientists always say "We tried to warm the administrator, but he just would not listen"

G-Man is the opposite of the Combine.
Do you remember the part in Opposing Force, at the end, when he says "A survivor. Reminds me of myself"?
What do you think that means?
G-Man's planet was conquered by the Combine when he was young, but he survived.
And now he's a member of a group who is trying to stop them and get everything back to order.

G-Man is not a man nor works for the government.
He took over the body of a high rank government official and gained control over the black ops.
After failing to convince the government to cancel the experiment, he decided to do it in the dirty way.

Remember when the sergeant in the boot camp in Opposing Force says "I don't know how your name appeared on the training list..." Or something like that?
G-Man chose one man to put an end to this mess.
He chose Shepard.
Remember the part where G-Man closes the door in front of your face and doesn't let you go back with the rest?
He wanted Shepard to go to Xen, to kill the Nihilanth.
G-Man was watching Freeman.
He saw that Freeman came closer and closer to the teleport.
G-Man set the whole army against him.
THAT IS WHY THE ARMY WASN'T THREATING YOU LIKE THE REST OF THE SCIENTISTS!
Freeman was a big enemy now.
And when the black-ops captured Freeman, you remember that don't you, G-Man was sure Freeman is dead.
But then Mr. Freeman came and went into the teleporter in from of Shepard's face!
G-Man's plan was ruined.
His last try to put an end to this was to blow up the facility with a nuclear bomb.
It didn't work, but G-Man didn't totally fail.
Freeman impressed him. G-Man gave Freeman Shepard's job because he was better.
As for Shepard, G-Mans employers, the anti-combine group, found Shepard useless.
He knew everything and failed to do something.
They wanted to kill him.
But even G-Man has emotions.
He didn't want to kill the man he belived in.
"I will send you to a place where you can't hurt anybody and nobody can hurt you"

THIS MAKES PERFECT SENSE!
I disagree with pretty much everything you said.
You shouldn't go spouting off your beliefs as fact.

[Element88]

But it does make perfect sense!
Every line of every characted, every scripted sequense, everything becomes clear!

But you're probably one of the people who didn't even listen to one sentense of any character...
One of the people who had all the fun just from shooting the aliens...
One of the people who say that if there were time traveling in HL2 it would suck... Altough there was time traveling and it's all about time and sace traveling...
LOL
You guys missed everything.

I can prove everything I said is correct using quotas of the things you see and hear while playing the game.
Try to prove that atleast one of the things I said is incorrect.
Do it using facts.
Don't just say "It not true and thats it"
My previous posts can make excelent threads.
It is interesting to see what other people saw and heard.
Maybe I missed something.

[FRESCO_SUPREME]

element88s theory is actually quite good, but just one of loads of theories floating around and most could be correct.

[Element88]

Thank you.
It could be nice to create a thread discussing people's theories, don't you think?
[EDIT]
Just noticed there's a whole forum topic related to theories...

[AJ Rimmer]

Well, it's a theory, and it adds just about as well as most other. In fact my own theory is kinda similar, with the exception that rather than being a fugitive from the combine, the g-man was fighting Breen over control of Xen, for his own (read; His employers') benfit. I think the Marines were Breen's guys and the black ops were the g-man's.
PS. Black Ops do not capture Freeman. Just regular grunts. And stuff added by Gearbox in Opposing Force should be taken with a grain of salt, even though some major plot twists in both OpFor and BS were OK'd by Marc Laidlaw.

[Element88]

Freeman was captured after a fight with the black ops, remember?
And the black ops were against the grunts...
So how comes both black ops and grunts were in the same place at the same time without fighting?

[AJ Rimmer]

Freeman was captured after a fight with the black ops, remember?
And the black ops were against the grunts...
So how comes both black ops and grunts were in the same place at the same time without fighting?
The grunts were hiding, waiting for Freeman.

[Ravioli]

Aargh! For God's sake no cutscenes! Please!


where did i say cutscenes? There are not any cut-scenes in this idea.

[AJ Rimmer]

where did i say cutscenes? There are not any cut-scenes in this idea.
He was responding to Ríomhaire maybe?

[Element88]

The army never managed to capture Freeman.
Remember the chapter "Forget About Freeman"?
The army left before Freeman was captured.
G-Man's assasins were ambushing Freeman, got him and threw him into the hazardous material processing system.
Just like they did with the scientists, the army, the aliens.
And just think of it, the army tried to shot you, tried to blew you up and did many nasty things to you, but they wouldn't capture living creature and throw him into the hazardous material processing system just to clean the evidence.

[AJ Rimmer]

The army never managed to capture Freeman.
Remember the chapter "Forget About Freeman"?
The army left before Freeman was captured.
G-Man's assasins were ambushing Freeman, got him and threw him into the hazardous material processing system.
Just like they did with the scientists, the army, the aliens.
And just think of it, the army tried to shot you, tried to blew you up and did many nasty things to you, but they wouldn't capture living creature and throw him into the hazardous material processing system just to clean the evidence.
Thats more typical for trained assasins.
The army grunts were *supposed* to take Gordon to the ground and interrogate him (most likely ending in a big hole in Freeman's head) but they wanted him to die and suffer for killing their buddies, so they threw him in the waste compactor. Black Ops have black clothes, these guys had military uniforms, ie, they were USMC. The army pulled out somewhere before Gordon got to the Lambda complex.

[Element88]

Thanks for refreshing my memory.
You're right.

[Element88]

And by the way, the grunts weren't Breen's people.
It is very obvious because they were typical US marines...
No way the were Breen's people.
But the black-ops were G-Man's people.
Breen was controling nothing.
Breen didn't want to control Xen either.

But one thing you are right about is that G-Man, or more correctly, G-Man's employers wanted control over Xen.
Thats why G-Man wanted to send Shepard to kill the Nihilanth.
Thats why you saw dead marines and human APCs on Xen.
But G-Man wasn't fighting for Xen for his employer's benefits.
These "benefits" were to free Xen from the combine's control.
This is actually his job.

[AJ Rimmer]

And by the way, the grunts weren't Breen's people.
It is very obvious because they were typical US marines...
No way the were Breen's people.
But the black-ops were G-Man's people.
Breen was controling nothing.
Breen didn't want to control Xen either.
Sorry, I wasn't clear enough. I didn't mean to say the USMC was Breen's men, I meant that Breen used regular channels and standard regulations to get the Military to seize control of BMRF again. My belief is Breen made contact with the Combine prior to the RC and needed to casue a rift from Xen to earth to get them here, so he could get a nice, big slice of the combine cheese. G-man knew this and tried to seize control of the Lambda complex (using black ops) so he could stop the whole thing, using Shepard but ended up "using" Freeman. Remember how the entrance of the Lambda complex was guarded by a large number of those sexy black ops?
Gordon stopped the invasion for the moment (...for the time being) but after a while the combine came through anyway and Breen became the big hole in the cheese.

[Element88]

I'm telling you, the army was controlled by G-Man.
How do you think G-Man was able to get Shepard's name on the list if he didn't have a control over the army?

Remember the line "Government coverups were not in my job description."?
Government coverups.
Tells you anything?

And the army was treating G-Man like a friend, not an enemy.
If the army was controlled by Breen, who was fighting with G-Man, why was G-Man considered as a friend?

Breen had nothing to do with the USMC.

[Element88]

Why would Breen fight with G-Man for Xen when he has Earth?
Especially when it is being controlled by the Combine...
Remember the dead marines and destryed APCs on Xen?
Are you trying to say Breen sent them there to fight with the Xen army, wich is actually the Combine army, wich he works with?
Or maybe he didn't send them there, so what were they doing there?
And why would the government let Breen control the army?

Thats stupid if you ask me.

P.S:
Yep... Those chicks with guns sure were sexy...

[AJ Rimmer]

Why would Breen fight with G-Man for Xen when he has Earth?
Especially when it is being controlled by the Combine...
Remember the dead marines and destryed APCs on Xen?
Are you trying to say Breen sent them there to fight with the Xen army, wich is actually the Combine army, wich he works with?
Or maybe he didn't send them there, so what were they doing there?
And why would the government let Breen control the army?

Thats stupid if you ask me.

P.S:
Yep... Those chicks with guns sure were sexy...
Breen didn't control the army but in case of an emergency, as administrator of BMRF he could send for help. He neede to cause an RC so the rift from Xen would open so the combine could come through and appoint him admin of earth.
G-man is considered freindly by everything, USMC, Black Ops, Xen animals, Race-X, the frickin' birds even like him in HL2. He is not human so maybe the other soldiers don't even notice him. He's unkillable as well. G-man was probably acting as a government official, placing Shepard where he wanted him, the HECU. Which would also explain why the USMC don't shoot him, besides, he's way too smooth to actually tell his soldiers what to do. He's bound to have some poor human schmo as a fall guy. But when the RC happened, he had to focus on fighting with other means.

[Element88]

There's only one thing I don't understand.
WHY DOES THE COMBINE NEED THE RIFT FROM XEN???
They have their own teleporting devices, don't they?
Hey wait a second... I really missed something...
Do they have their own teleporters or not?
And about G-Man, he's a friend of everybody and a friend of no one.

P.S:
I really don't like your signature.
I'm a Doom 3 fan too you know...
I'm a really big fan of all the Quake, Doom and Half-Life series.

[Samon]

Why would Breen fight with G-Man for Xen when he has Earth?
Especially when it is being controlled by the Combine...
Remember the dead marines and destryed APCs on Xen?
Are you trying to say Breen sent them there to fight with the Xen army, wich is actually the Combine army, wich he works with?
Or maybe he didn't send them there, so what were they doing there?
And why would the government let Breen control the army?

Thats stupid if you ask me.

P.S:
Yep... Those chicks with guns sure were sexy...

That was merley a piece of earth stuck on xen during the portal storms.

[AJ Rimmer]

Ok, what's the story on Combine teleporters someone, I've forgotten. They're different than our teleports that's all I remember, they have to make a reststop on xen unlike we do right?

[Samon]

Ok, what's the story on Combine teleporters someone, I've forgotten. They're different than our teleports that's all I remember, they have to make a reststop on xen unlike we do right?

They only have teleporters that travel between Universe's - not small ones. They use large amounts of dark energy and need a tunneling entanglement system ensure they get there safley.

[Element88]

Are you guys trying to say that Breen made the machine explode exactly in the correct way to open portals to the only planet that the Combine can come to Earth through?
Thats bull shit!
It's just a machine, god damn it!
You can't predict and cause an experimental machine to explode the way you want!
I think that the there was absolutely nothing so special about Xen.
Just another planet conquered by the Combine.

You can mark out the "Breen was working with the Combine from the very beggining and helped them get to Earth" as wrong.
This is way beyond.

[AJ Rimmer]

Are you guys trying to say that Breen made the machine explode exactly in the correct way to open portals to the only planet that the Combine can come to Earth through?
Thats bull shit!
It's just a machine, god damn it!
You can't predict and cause an experimental machine to explode the way you want!
I think that the there was absolutely nothing so special about Xen.
Just another planet conquered by the Combine.

You can mark out the "Breen was working with the Combine from the very beggining and helped them get to Earth" as wrong.
This is way beyond.
Xen is a borderworld, a place everyone has to pass through. Maybe Breen did know, he could've known that when operating at 105%, containment failure would occur. He was insistant about it. Don't you remember the scientists being worried about a Resonance Cascade occuring before the experiment? They obviously thought it could happen. They even tried to warn Breen but "the administrator just wouldn't listen"

[AIDisabled]

He was responding to Ríomhaire maybe?

Yes. Thank you. :)

Element88, answer this: is a nuclear bomb not a machine? Strike that, is a simple AAMRAM missile not a machine? Yet we can guide it accurately to explode at a set target, can't we?

[Zeus]

bad idea

not bad idea, good idea

[Element88]

"Don't you remember the scientists being worried about a Resonance Cascade occuring before the experiment? They obviously thought it could happen. They even tried to warn Breen but "the administrator just wouldn't listen"
Did you read at least once sentence of my theory?

IF YOU DID, YOU BETTER ADD QUOTA SIGN AND "ORIGINALY POSTED BY ELEMENT88" TO YOUR POST!

[Element88]

And AIDisabled, how can you say a thing like that?!
You're just a fool who is trying to sound smart.

[AJ Rimmer]

"Don't you remember the scientists being worried about a Resonance Cascade occuring before the experiment? They obviously thought it could happen. They even tried to warn Breen but "the administrator just wouldn't listen"
Did you read at least once sentence of my theory?

IF YOU DID, YOU BETTER ADD QUOTA SIGN AND "ORIGINALY POSTED BY ELEMENT88" TO YOUR POST!
Then if you wrote it (sorry if I missed it) why is it so impossible that Breen wanted it to happen?

[Element88]

Because in my opinion, it would be silly if really is like that.
Yeah right... Breen predicted how the teleport should explode to open portals to Xen and did something and nobody noticed...
Cmon...Laidlaw is better then that...

[Ravioli]

Breen is like in a prison, the Unviversal Union is controling many planets, counqer solar systems after solar systems. But each planet needs a leader, so they choose Breen. So, would YOU rather be on the streets, or be in a tower with warm food?

Also, Breen is trying to promote the combines, because he want the Union to use the combines (as he says in Nova Prospect). I dont think hes evil actually, i think he has a plan, to convince the union that the combine is the best, and when they accept, he turns the switch and the combines fight against the union, to free earth and all the planets which the union has en-prison.

[AJ Rimmer]

Because in my opinion, it would be silly if really is like that.
Yeah right... Breen predicted how the teleport should explode to open portals to Xen and did something and nobody noticed...
Cmon...Laidlaw is better then that...
Not the teleport, the antimass spectrometer.
Why? If that specimen has a certain connection to Xen, it being the same mineral found in the Nihilianth's chamber, when those beams (lasers or wtf they were) were concentrated on the sample he predicted a resonance cascade would occur, causing a rift. Maybe he knew something the rest of the science team didn't. He is a scientist with access to all the information from all departments in BMRF. Or if he didn't figure it out himself, maybe the combine told him? :angel:
As for nobody noticing his sabotage, they did notice, but they thought it was just him being eager. (boost it to 105%)

[Element88]

This theory makes no sense.
How did Breen found out about the Combine/the Combine found out about Breen?
And even if they did contact somehow, a normal person wouldn't sell out his planet and kind to some stupid aliens...
I wouldn't do that even if they would promise me full control over Earth...
You wouldn't do that too...
None of us would...
I think he decided to betray Earth when he saw the battle was lost because Earth will be conquered with him as the controller or without...

[AJ Rimmer]

This theory makes no sense.
How did Breen found out about the Combine/the Combine found out about Breen?
And even if they did contact somehow, a normal person wouldn't sell out his planet and kind to some stupid aliens...
I wouldn't do that even if they would promise me full control over Earth...
You wouldn't do that too...
None of us would...
I think he decided to betray Earth when he saw the battle was lost because Earth will be conquered with him as the controller or without...
I think he joined up with the combine A) For Power but also mainly because he genuinely thought the Universal Union could actually benefit the human race. His methods may be cruel like hell, but his goal is noble. On the other hand, someone who actually defends the actions of a people who slaughtered a large part of humanity and enslaves an even bigger part ain't founded rightly.

[AIDisabled]

A nuclear bomb is not an experimental teleporter, stupid.
And consider how many ****ed up experiments it took the humanity to learn how to control it!
YOU ARE A ****ING IDIOT!

Back up a second.

You said that the teleporter is a machine.

I said the nuclear bomb is a machine.

You said that the explosion could not be controlled.

I'm saying: an explosion is a process. And a process is, by its very definition, something that can be controlled.

Your original comment was this:

Are you guys trying to say that Breen made the machine explode exactly in the correct way to open portals to the only planet that the Combine can come to Earth through?
Thats bull shit!
It's just a machine, god damn it!
You can't predict and cause an experimental machine to explode the way you want!


An explosion (a process) and a machine can both be controlled. You can explode something exactly the way you want if--repeat, if you know how to.

We can debate about whether Breen knew how or not, but debating whether an explosion or a machine is controllable is not profitable because it clearly is controllable or it would not be a machine or a process. The explosion may get out of hand, but that would be an anomaly, nothing more. Perhaps what happened was an anomaly, I'm not saying that's not possible, but unless it's an anomaly, a process is by definition, controllable.

[Samon]

A nuclear bomb is not an experimental teleporter, stupid.
And consider how many ****ed up experiments it took the humanity to learn how to control it!
YOU ARE A ****ING IDIOT!


Actually the teleporter is linked to the Fusion reactor and it is the reactor that exploded. Marc Laidlaw already said the citadel is going into meltdown - I.E a Nuclear explosion.

[Laivasse]

Whoa, what the hell happened to make this thread so active all of a sudden? I can't even remember what it was originally about.

To be honest, I don't think much of any of these theories. Everything makes much more sense if you stop assuming that there is any connection between Xen and the Combine.

My theory:

-Breen wanted glory and scientific notoriety from Xen discovery and experiments - "questionable ethics"

-Nihilanth wanted revenge for said experiments

-G-Man wanted Nihilanth dead AND/OR Earth ruined by portal storms
THUS- G-Man pushed for resonance cascade, quelled scientists' complaints

-Resonance cascade gives Nihilanth a dimensional "hook" to our own, which it uses to angrily send over bits of Xen wildlife and the occasional troop

-G-Man calls in troops to silence everyone, and pushes for Nihilanth assassination

-G-Man notices Freeman character doing quite well against Xen forces and troops

-Troops get minced, so G-Man switches focus to Gordon to complete the task, troops told to forget about Freeman

**at some point, Nihilanth catches wind of G-Man's existence and realises it's all a set-up. Drops obscure hints to Freeman, mentioning thievery, slavery (metaphorical?), and the fact that G-Man is "not man".

-NO CONNECTION TO COMBINE WHATSOEVER

-Nihilanth's death fails to stop portal storms (G-man has pwnt3d Earth?), Xen infestation widens. Earth begins to be ruined.

-Breen made head of "Human Affairs Bureau" (clipping in Eli's lab), because he is most knowledgeable figure on extra-terrestrial threat

-Combine drawn to Earth by portal disturbances (suggested in prima guide); turn up and screw us in every hole

-Breen, in Human Affairs bureau originally meant to deal with Xen, is most natural choice to negotiate with alien threat. Brokers a peace which is highly profitable to him.

-Remaining human populace oppressed. Vorts stranded on Earth don't like being stepped on either. Their resistance to the Combine is not indicative of any past relationship.

-G-Man pops up again, sets Gordon loose. Possible objectives - destroy dark energy reactor/kill Breen/screw Combine over/screw Earth over even more by angering Combine/confuse the hell out of everyone. Puts Gordon back in his kennel on completion.

-Valve pwn themselves by setting an expansion 10 seconds after the end of HL2, with Gordon still in it.

THE END

Trying to draw a link between the Combine and Breen in HL1 is silly...those entities didn't appear and probably didn't exist in Valve's mind HL1, and nothing happened in HL2 to suggest a retroactive link. So it's just pulling a theory out of the air. Not everything in each game has to be connected.

[Samon]

Not bad Laivasse, though I don't think Gman anticipated the portal storms and I dont think he is working against the humans.

I don't think he wants to kill Breen either, who we don't actually know is dead. I think he wanted to destroy the reactor CUT the combines connection with Earth - no tunneling entanglement system no connection to earth simple.

How could he make them angry with the humans? They are going to absorb our race we might as well fight back :P

[shadow6899]

for people that said that time travel is stupid and everything.. where do u think their going w/ the story?? huh?? i mean u did get caught in the *SPOILER!!!!***
teleporter for over a week right? that was the start of time travel being introduced into the time line imo. I think in the next one u may have to go back and stop yourself or something.

[Laivasse]

Not bad Laivasse, though I don't think Gman anticipated the portal storms and I dont think he is working against the humans.

I don't think he wants to kill Breen either, who we don't actually know is dead. I think he wanted to destroy the reactor CUT the combines connection with Earth - no tunneling entanglement system no connection to earth simple.

How could he make them angry with the humans? They are going to absorb our race we might as well fight back :P

Cheers - yeah, for the part on G-Man's objectives in HL2 I was just speculating all the possibilities. We can't be sure what he wanted done because we don't yet know exactly what Gordon accomplished at the ending.

We don't know if Breen is dead - in fact there's a good chance he's alive, because he's that jammy sort of character. Plus if Valve wanted us to believe he was dead they probably would have let us see him go out in a big and satisfyingly grisly way. Just having him float back down the reactor leaves it very open.

And I agree that humanity are finished if they don't fight back - but it could be that G-Man just wanted to bring things to a head in a big conflict, for whatever reason.

About cutting off the Combine's link to Earth - that's possible but I think it definitely depends on the nature and existence of any other citadels. If there are no other citadels, then perhaps it is cut. But if there are other citadels then it's reasonable to assume that they all have a way of teleporting in Combine backup (like how the gunships come through at the end).

It does seem like the force on Earth isn't the full force they invaded with, so their big hitters are either hiding up in the citadels or have teleported away again - for the entire world invasion force to teleport away using just the City 17 portal seems a bit clumsy. Also, the Combine didn't need any citadels on this side to be able to get here in the first place.

for people that said that time travel is stupid and everything.. where do u think their going w/ the story?? huh?? i mean u did get caught in the *SPOILER!!!!*** teleporter for over a week right? that was the start of time travel being introduced into the time line imo. I think in the next one u may have to go back and stop yourself or something.

Well, the slow teleport sequence isn't all that different to the idea of Gordon being in stasis for 10 years, ie. being in a situation where time passes very slowly, but still ultimately passes. That's also why I disagree with people who say G-Man can manipulate time, since all he seems to constantly do is knock Gordon in and out of "G-Time".

I have to admit, though, that without time travel the chance of a happily-ever-after ending to the series are very slim. Earth is a toilet, probably millions of people have died, and we've been taken off the Christmas card lists of a couple of lethal alien races. It's not a bad thing for the ending to be slightly grey, of course...something gritty and open-ended, with not so many cliched one-liners that we feel forced to vomit pea soup everywhere (Matrix Revolutions, I'm looking at you). I do think there has to be an ending though, preferably with HL3....I wouldn't like there to be a Half Life 6: Son Of G-Man type thing, where the plot seems like it's been chewed up by a horse.

[Samon]

Agreed, its still very out there who and what his goals are and there are many idea's of which are all quite possible. I get mixed reactions everytime i listen to his speech, its one thing in the hallucination Gordon gets at the start and its another thing at the tip of the reactor.

Yeah if Breen was to go, I want to see him go in style. Hopefully we'll see him attempting to flee the citadel in Aftermath - and if he does reach the bottom, well lets just say i doubt he'd get a warm reception.

I'm still wondering about other citadels. I'm thinking there are others but not on the scale of the one in City 17, as that seems to be the central citadel really. Breen, reactor, portal etc.

I'm guessing the others are either smaller or simply lack a reactor.

[Sars]

You walk throught black mesa BEFORE the incident, and you find out more about what happened.

i dont see how that works.....im on a flame-knife edge here...

the idea just wouldn't work and there is no need for it

[r2000]

Actually the teleporter is linked to the Fusion reactor and it is the reactor that exploded. Marc Laidlaw already said the citadel is going into meltdown - I.E a Nuclear explosion.
Metldowns don't create explosions.
We've never had a a total meltdown of any reactor in recorded history. At Chernoybl, the damage was caused by all of the water in the reactor (thousands of thousands of gallons) flashing to steam instantly.
In a meltdown, everything, melts, flashes, or vaporizes. The Citadel, should, be rippled with explosions, collapsing, and melting.

[Sars]

so alyx is dead?? woooohooo!!111!!1

[Jintor]

-Valve pwn themselves by setting an expansion 10 seconds after the end of HL2, with Gordon still in it.


ARRGGHH!!

I hope they don't pwn themselves. I'll never forgive them and move back to anime if they do!

[Samon]

Metldowns don't create explosions.
We've never had a a total meltdown of any reactor in recorded history. At Chernoybl, the damage was caused by all of the water in the reactor (thousands of thousands of gallons) flashing to steam instantly.
In a meltdown, everything, melts, flashes, or vaporizes. The Citadel, should, be rippled with explosions, collapsing, and melting.

True, although its certainly possible it could cause such an explosion.

[Samon]

Also Ravioli Gordon DOES remember the Black Mesa incident, just not what came after. After reading it again, I think its an awful idea.

[Ravioli]

Samon, Valve have said he doesnt remember, in the old E3 Movies.

[Samon]

Samon, Valve have said he doesnt remember, in the old E3 Movies.

Ravio, he doesnt know what has happened in between BM and now. Not Black Mesa as a whole. I mean so when you see Kliener, Barney and Eli they are just these funny little people talking to you, pretending to know you and gently mocking you.

"Huh? I have an MIT grad! HEV suit? What the **** are you people going on about dam it!!"

Erm no. :rolleyes:

Gabe said the last thing you remember as a character is a convo with the gman at the end of hl

[Ravioli]

Gabe said the last thing you remember as a character is a convo with the gman at the end of hl2.

You mean hl1?

And yes, thats the only thing he remember, so yes, he doesnt remember Black Mesa.

[Samon]

You mean hl1?

And yes, thats the only thing he remember, so yes, he doesnt remember Black Mesa.

Yes I made a mistake edited. What gabes means is there is a time gap between the gman convo and nowand that part is missing that you have to fill in. Are you an idiot, of course you remember Black Mesa!

You remember Black Mesa theres nothing else to it. And Valve arn't going to mention you in the credits, either.

[Laivasse]

You are Gordon and if you remember HL1 then Gordon does. This was a silly tangent.

[Spoonoop]

Yes it is silly, what makes you think Gordon forgot everthing? How would he know Dr. Kleiner or Eli Vance, Barney etc. if he didn't remember anything from Black Mesa?

[Element88]

Whoa, what the hell happened to make this thread so active all of a sudden? I can't even remember what it was originally about.

To be honest, I don't think much of any of these theories. Everything makes much more sense if you stop assuming that there is any connection between Xen and the Combine.

My theory:

-Breen wanted glory and scientific notoriety from Xen discovery and experiments - "questionable ethics"

-Nihilanth wanted revenge for said experiments

-G-Man wanted Nihilanth dead AND/OR Earth ruined by portal storms
THUS- G-Man pushed for resonance cascade, quelled scientists' complaints

-Resonance cascade gives Nihilanth a dimensional "hook" to our own, which it uses to angrily send over bits of Xen wildlife and the occasional troop

-G-Man calls in troops to silence everyone, and pushes for Nihilanth assassination

-G-Man notices Freeman character doing quite well against Xen forces and troops

-Troops get minced, so G-Man switches focus to Gordon to complete the task, troops told to forget about Freeman

**at some point, Nihilanth catches wind of G-Man's existence and realises it's all a set-up. Drops obscure hints to Freeman, mentioning thievery, slavery (metaphorical?), and the fact that G-Man is "not man".

-NO CONNECTION TO COMBINE WHATSOEVER

-Nihilanth's death fails to stop portal storms (G-man has pwnt3d Earth?), Xen infestation widens. Earth begins to be ruined.

-Breen made head of "Human Affairs Bureau" (clipping in Eli's lab), because he is most knowledgeable figure on extra-terrestrial threat

-Combine drawn to Earth by portal disturbances (suggested in prima guide); turn up and screw us in every hole

-Breen, in Human Affairs bureau originally meant to deal with Xen, is most natural choice to negotiate with alien threat. Brokers a peace which is highly profitable to him.

-Remaining human populace oppressed. Vorts stranded on Earth don't like being stepped on either. Their resistance to the Combine is not indicative of any past relationship.

-G-Man pops up again, sets Gordon loose. Possible objectives - destroy dark energy reactor/kill Breen/screw Combine over/screw Earth over even more by angering Combine/confuse the hell out of everyone. Puts Gordon back in his kennel on completion.

-Valve pwn themselves by setting an expansion 10 seconds after the end of HL2, with Gordon still in it.

THE END

Trying to draw a link between the Combine and Breen in HL1 is silly...those entities didn't appear and probably didn't exist in Valve's mind HL1, and nothing happened in HL2 to suggest a retroactive link. So it's just pulling a theory out of the air. Not everything in each game has to be connected.

That's the worst theory I ever heard...

As already been said, if you remember what happened in HL1, Gordon does too.
You are Gordon.
And by the way, both Gordon and Alyx survive because G-Man does something...
I don't know what, but as far as I know, in Aftermath you need to run away from City 17 before the meltdown.
So if the explosion already happened, what are you running away from?

[Samon]

That's the worst theory I ever heard...

Its actually partially correct.

And there's this little button on your posts, it says edit. please click it.

[Laivasse]

That's the worst theory I ever heard...

As already been said, if you remember what happened in HL1, Gordon does too.
You are Gordon.
And by the way, both Gordon and Alyx survive because G-Man does something...
I don't know what, but as far as I know, in Aftermath you need to run away from City 17 before the meltdown.
So if the explosion already happened, what are you running away from?

What? what are you talking about?? That hasn't got anything to do with anything I said.

[Samon]

What? what are you talking about?? That hasn't got anything to do with anything I said.

No he posted three times, so badger edited and crammed them altogether so I'm thinking his posts are jumbled. Besides he is a total idiot.