Human vs human combat

[avraell]

Is it just me, or did half life 2 seem to completely lack human to human combat? I realize there are the metro police, soldiers, and elites - but for some reason these didnt feel human at all. Somehow they were too emotionless, took dmg head on, and were pretty retarded. Maybe the emotionless part is meant as a part of the story. But somehow, in half life 1 fighting the soldiers was for more challenging and they seemed to have some sort of fear and worry about getting damaged. I assume I and others complain about the simplicity because we all play games too much. True, but I really think they should add truly skilled human forces. I dont know in what form, maybe Black Ops that simply chose to serve the combine and werent modified because they are so badass already (I dont care, any ideas work) But simply make them hide, cover fire, attack and squads, retreat, set traps, maybe add medics. Make them roll around, lean around corners, throw grenades all around you at the same time...something so u just dont stand there on hard and pick up their nades with grav gun and they all die...

[bliink]

By not letting the player shoot recognisable humans, there would be some benefits (eg, game's violence rating)

[terrorist420]

i think the combine made people robots? or valve gave the game more of a great depression type feel in my opinion,

ima robot, no! ima real boy!!!






:cheers: PRO ADRIAN SHEPHARD FOR LIFE! :cheers:

[avraell]

As for the violence rating:
1. I think most parents dont care if their 12+ year olds play mature games with no profanity/nudity.
2. Most of us are half life 1 fans, so we are all clearly allowed to play gory games/old enough to do so legally.

Besides, I think half life could benefit from a darker, more violent setting, its getting a bit too happy dappy. Like my superior word choice? Seriously though, evrything seems too easy, no one is dying, boo.

[Rafa 5.0]

...and they seemed to have some sort of fear and worry about getting damaged
ok... I agree with most of your argument but this....

no way in hell the soldiers in HL1 showed "fear"- bastards would stand there and take a full MP5(oldskool) clip right in the face and say "is that all you got?!?" then they'd wipe the floor with me :x

[AzzMan]

If anything, I think there weren't enough alien enemies...... :|

[Ranga]

If anything, I think there weren't enough alien enemies...... :|

I refuse to shoot another bloody barnacle!

I didn't actually realise the lack of human targets... until you mentioned it. It could have benefited from them, but hey, it's still an <AWESOME> game without. :)

[Qwert93]

I wish there will be more bosses. Eg the headcrab queen, the big bad fire-shooting-out-of-its-hands dinosaur guy, etc.

[avraell]

By no means am I trying to say that we should have less alien enemies. I just dont like the soldiers in half life 2 being a mix with no human characteristics, yet not cool qualities/abilities that can be classified as alien. They are simply lacking in both areas.

Anybody remember fallout? Now those games created an atmosphere, and yes I realize its a completely different type of game. However, imagine the atmposphere of that game mixed with the amazing physics/graphics of half life 2. They develop this engine to create more realism, yet they deduct from it by making the humanoid enemies so shitty. Come on people, you know you want to fight some amazingly skilled special forces that make you cover in fear and get bullet holes in them once you finally get some good weapons.

Speaking of which, what the **** is with the goddamn ammo only being there when you need it against a specific enemy. Make a part where u would lose a lot of health by not killing an enemy, bnut dont just oput a box of rockets there that keep magically appearing until you take the enemy out, without which you cant move on!! Where's my realism?!?

Oh yea, in reply to what you said rafa: Wouldn't you like them to show fear though? For example when they run away from a granade, wouldnt you want them to back up facing you for example instead of turning their backs and running away as you mow them down. Wouldn't you want them to roll out of the way if you are emptying a clip in their face? How about running behind a corner and having another soldier cover while reloading?

[fokke]

I really loved fighting the combine. The race that has taken over the humans and have token our freedom. And now you can kick their arses in Gordon Godlike style. It was just perfect. Especially when I got the gravity gun.
I hated shooting zombies though...Those poor bastards...

[avraell]

. And now you can kick their arses in Gordon Godlike style. It was just perfect

Thats exactly what I hated about half life 2. It doesn't have the survival theme which i enjoyed so much. You are far too professional somehow. Evrything is easy and routine.

[fokke]

It gave me a somewhat feeling of might that I didn't have in HL1.
The vortigaunts love you like a saint, and the resistance honours you and you boost their morale like dope. The fact that you've slain hundreds of combine, aliens and most of all: Gunships and Helicopters, gives me a feeling of pride.

[AJ Rimmer]

Thats exactly what I hated about half life 2. It doesn't have the survival theme which i enjoyed so much. You are far too professional somehow. Evrything is easy and routine.
Maybe this is VALVe's plan, make you a running survivor just looking out for number one in the first game, then make you a saint-like superhero slayin' machine in the sequel, and in the third or the expansion, the combine sets in the actual combine aliens and bring you back to status quo. (running and trying desperately to stay alive)

[avraell]

I hope so, because thats where a little bitch human scientist belongs when facing a race that has conqured hundreds of worlds. But I doubt it, since there is always might gman to save you if he feels like it. Then again, thats an if.

[fokke]

Haha but I'm sure Gordon will crowbar them back to the stone age anyhow.
I don't hope you get to fight the combine themself. I liked fighting the oppressors. Being chased by hunting parties and stuff. I got pretty good at it!

[Solver]

It's good that there are different feelings. Indeed, Gordon is a survivor in HL1. In HL2, he's still pushing himself to the limits to survive, but the situation has changed. The GMan has officially hired Gordon, the Vortigaunts and Rebels view Gordon as an icon. You actually get the sense of how things have changed. In HL1, the only ones who care about you hate you (marines). In HL2, you're the main hope of the people there.

[Ennui]

Half-Life is all about survival, and as such it's very tense and thrilling; Half-Life 2 is about revolution, uprising, and teamwork, which gives it just as much atmosphere but a very different type of immersion.

[jondy]

Well, if someone would make a mod to tighten up the spread of the auto weapons I'd be fine :)

[Ennui]

Amen, friggin SMG has like a 5 foot spray pattern from 10 feet -_-

[avraell]

This thread got way off topic, partially my fault, however I still want to hear opinions on highly skilled/realistic human enemies with more violence.

[TheSomeone]

Shooting fellow human beings is really not my priority, especially in our violent times.

[Jintor]

I just wish all enemies wouldn't flinch the same way all the time :(

[fokke]

Well there could be of course a mod in which you play the combine, beginning with raiding houses and blocks and beating up harmless civies, would you like that? It would be fun to be one of the dropship crews however. The combines were fine enemies in my opinion. You can hear them strategically talk to each other, well, a litte bit :P
What's so cool about killing humans? It's treachoury...But if you say no to killing humans in half life, because you think it to be connected to violence in the world, then you shouldn't be playing UT, GTA, Far Cry, BF1942, Raven shield, Counter Strike, Warcraft, CoD, NOLF, Commandos, SoF, Dune, Red Alert, C&C, MoH, Brothers in Arms, Vietcong, BFV, Splinter Cell, Total Annihilation and Hidden and Dangerous too. I can name some more if you like.

[fokke]

treason

[avraell]

Humans that betray the majority of humans should be killed in most cases..

[MikeL15]

Actually, the metro police were full 100% human. Its the soldiers that had all the robotic enhancments.

And they do have some emotion. Remember the guard in the beginning? He knocked the can over and told you to pick it up, then hit you. Its still emotion.

[Marx! II]

And he laughed at you after.
Bastard, I hope I nailed him with that popgun pistol they carry around.

[MikeL15]

I wish I had the gravity gun... then, it wouldnt be the can that was getting thrown in the trash ;)

[eatbugs]

The Metro police aren't human fool.

[MikeL15]

Yes they are... they are people that decided to join the combine, but havent had any enhancements installed yet... theres a big website that talks all about it... cant remember what it was though...

[eatbugs]

That would be stupid. Humans can't be trusted, especially not with weapons. I'll believe it when I read it.

[MikeL15]

Im not sure youll 'believe' this, but once the people sign up for the combine, they use some weird mind-control or whatever to make them be trustworthy.

[eatbugs]

Go on I'm listening..

[MikeL15]

I dunno... but Barney got to be a Metrocop and in the trainstation, there was this one girl who said she wanted to join the combine for food and shelter or something like that...

[eatbugs]

Eh, I'm convinced. It's those gunships that are the question.

[Marx! II]

Why waste valuble members of the combine race on patrolling a bitter and desolate earth when you can have genetically amped up humans do it for you?
And on that note, why waste expensive amped up humans when you can dangle a hot meal in front of regular humans and have them patrol around as well?

[eatbugs]

Does someone actually ride inside the gunship or not?

[Black Ops4]

I really don't want any more 'human' foes in HL: Aftermath.
Pretty much every damn FPS game out there has human opponents, one of the reasons I like the HL games is because they are so different.

I don't know why some of you think it isn't violent enough. To me, killing the enemies is just overcoming obstacles, not pleasure for sadists. I don't think Half-Life 2's rating could get much higher either, unless Vavle added tons of unnecessary swearing and gore. A human corpse with its face burnt off sitting in front of a television, or the twisted faces of the zombie victims are violent enough for me. Anything more than that is really just unecessary if you ask me.

Instead, I would like much more varied opponents. All we really got in HL2 was antlions, zombies, and Combine soldiers with the occasional chopper or gunship thrown in. I'd like to see a return of some of HL1's aliens, such as the bullsquid, alien grunts and houndeyes, as well as some of the others seen in Opposing Force (though that would be unlikely due to the whole Gearbox issue).

By the time I had finished playing HL2, I was sick of fighting Combine soldiers again and again.

Anyway, nearly all humans want to stop the Combine, not try to help them. If you want to fight humans, go and play CS, FarCry, or one of the other many games which allow you to do so.

[Mechagodzilla]

It's a safe bet that there is some mind control going on. There's some concept art of what looks like an overwatch strapped into a reprogramming device in Raising The Bar.

Metrocops might have mind control and implants too, but definitely less than the overwatch. Maybe just something that makes forces them to stay loyal, while the overwatch have actually been given enhancements.

Edit: The gunship is all AI, like the other synths. The hunter-chopper and APC are the only the piloted things we currently know about.

[Jintor]

Both the Gunship and the Strider are syntetic creatures implanted or forcebly evolved by the combine so as to attack humans... i doubt there is anyone controlling them, beyond the intelligence needed to shoot and fly and not crash. Much.

[DoctorWeeTodd]

By not letting the player shoot recognisable humans, there would be some benefits (eg, game's violence rating)

Blood in a shooter already automatically gives you a M rating, and Half-Life is already on many parent's watchlist. Whats the point?

[Laivasse]

The point is that gasmasks are cool.

[kupocake]

The combine were more human than the marines ever were. Besides, if you want human v human combat, there's always CS. The combine are easily one of the best races i've ever fought against in an FPS.

[Laivasse]

The combine were more human than the marines ever were. Besides, if you want human v human combat, there's always CS. The combine are easily one of the best races i've ever fought against in an FPS.

Seconded and thirded...(can I do that?)

[avraell]

No, you cant.

The whole point of thsi thread was not to promote an increase in the number or percentage of fighting vs humans. It was to support the idea of the humans being more, well, human.

[kupocake]

No, you cant.

The whole point of thsi thread was not to promote an increase in the number or percentage of fighting vs humans. It was to support the idea of the humans being more, well, human.
And our arguement is that they already are more human, you ditz!

[avraell]

Well, my arguement is that they are NOT human enough! ya silly

[$kelet0r]

Well he's right to an extent
The comnbine soldiers are just not smart enough
Partly because on hard the weapons are still ridiculously inaccurate
Now relative even to the much vaunted ai of FarCry they are the most superior ai to date particularly around a fixed structure like a house.
However I've been ramping up their health to 200 + to test my own abilities and theirs and sadly ai still does not cut the mustard
If u want to see good ai see the bots of css and hl2 and think of a compromise - soldiers that duck and weave and use cover, and flank properly
Oh and combine soldiers dont use grenades nearly enough
Pity really

[r2000]

I really don't want any more 'human' foes in HL: Aftermath.
Pretty much every damn FPS game out there has human opponents, one of the reasons I like the HL games is because they are so different.

I don't know why some of you think it isn't violent enough. To me, killing the enemies is just overcoming obstacles, not pleasure for sadists. I don't think Half-Life 2's rating could get much higher either, unless Vavle added tons of unnecessary swearing and gore. A human corpse with its face burnt off sitting in front of a television, or the twisted faces of the zombie victims are violent enough for me. Anything more than that is really just unecessary if you ask me.

Instead, I would like much more varied opponents. All we really got in HL2 was antlions, zombies, and Combine soldiers with the occasional chopper or gunship thrown in. I'd like to see a return of some of HL1's aliens, such as the bullsquid, alien grunts and houndeyes, as well as some of the others seen in Opposing Force (though that would be unlikely due to the whole Gearbox issue).

By the time I had finished playing HL2, I was sick of fighting Combine soldiers again and again.

Anyway, nearly all humans want to stop the Combine, not try to help them. If you want to fight humans, go and play CS, FarCry, or one of the other many games which allow you to do so.

Agreed. Since containment shields are down, its stands to reason more aliens.

Secondly humans can be that brutal without reprogramming. Stalin's Seceret Police, the Nazi SS, Pol Pot, Che Guevara's Death Squads, Hiroshima, Nanking, the Mongols, The Romans at Jerusalem.

[Rennmniscant]

The combine as they say are "slow to wake", and on the common occasion, i am tempted to agree. The fighting tactics can be a bit iffy, and is far removed from the marines in HL1, who are much more agressive. There are some really beautiful bits of combat with the combine, but they are few and far between. It needed more AI and less scripted sequences, like the bots in CSS.

I played HL2 first, and when i played HL1:S i was amazed at the diversity of enemies compared to HL2. So many interesting abilities and looks, it sorta reminded me of a cheap alien B-movie, but was quite good all the same. I miss the Houndeye...

These are the things that should follow through the Half Life series. Not just another FPS where you go around shooting your fellow man. Diversity and imagination.

[r2000]

The combine as they say are "slow to wake", and on the common occasion, i am tempted to agree. The fighting tactics can be a bit iffy, and is far removed from the marines in HL1, who are much more agressive. There are some really beautiful bits of combat with the combine, but they are few and far between. It needed more AI and less scripted sequences, like the bots in CSS.

I played HL2 first, and when i played HL1:S i was amazed at the diversity of enemies compared to HL2. So many interesting abilities and looks, it sorta reminded me of a cheap alien B-movie, but was quite good all the same. I miss the Houndeye...

These are the things that should follow through the Half Life series. Not just another FPS where you go around shooting your fellow man. Diversity and imagination.

Co-Signed.

I really miss the Garg. It was the ONLY enemy in HL1, that scared the crap outta me, without being disturbing (a la zombies). Just the fact that it killed everything, and was almost invincible.

[bibble]

gordon can kill all the humans by himself

[jimmyjam]

The combine as they say are "slow to wake", and on the common occasion, i am tempted to agree. The fighting tactics can be a bit iffy, and is far removed from the marines in HL1, who are much more agressive. There are some really beautiful bits of combat with the combine, but they are few and far between. It needed more AI and less scripted sequences, like the bots in CSS.

my favourite thing about the marines is that they'd pull back a lot
like you'd come out of cover to shoot at the guy you were just fighting and he has left the room
the combine are much more about standing in place or advancing than the marines

[Laivasse]

my favourite thing about the marines is that they'd pull back a lot
like you'd come out of cover to shoot at the guy you were just fighting and he has left the room
the combine are much more about standing in place or advancing than the marines

Hmm, I disagree. My own experience was that the Combine back off as much as the marines. The only exception to this rule were those shotgun guys who just charge straight at you until they have a clear shot, which sometimes looks a bit silly in wide open spaces.

Combine troops also do that killer thing in corridors where one will appear from one door and fire, then go back and be replaced by another guy coming out of the opposite door. Or strafe across the corridor from one doorway to another, shooting at you.

[jimmyjam]

yes both combine and marines go back and forth between being devilishly clever and outright stupid

I noticed the retreating in the interiors when they're first introduced, they're not quite so interesting in the outdoors

[Flyingdebris]

they'd seem much smarter if their aim was tightened to avoid the Star Wars stormtrooper effect.

Also if they would have used more nades and manhacks.

Another thing would be to give them more animations like diving out of the way, or leaning out of corners to fire.

Also for the soldiers and elites, give them significantly more health. They are armored in advanced materials, they should behave like it.

Right now the combine troops are content to run in and get mowed down. They lack any sense of caution


Almost forgot, make the elites more unique in their behavior other than spitting out the ocassional plasma sphere, but behaving almost the same as the regular soldiers.

I'd like them better if they perhaps moved faster, maybe did a few jumps, or were considerably more accurate. Something that would imply eliteness

[RakuraiTenjin]

Metrocops, being unaltered human, had voice acting that really made me feel they were human.

I just started to replay HL2 again, and I'm in anticitizen one. My party came across some metrocops near a shack, killed 3 of the 4.

The last one ducked under a table and I heard "Blah blah number codes, Officer in trouble officer in trouble!" before one of my guys shot him dead, in the head and his ragdoll made his arms fly up in the air, making it seem even more real/sadder.

[avraell]

Yea, elites were noob

[Mr_Fofo]

I didn't really see any problem with the AI in Half Life 2. The Combine don't show any fear because they are brainwashed facists. They still did retreat and the like though. I thought they really used gernades well. In some games you can stand beside doorways and lure enemies through, shooting them before they could bring their weapons to bear. In both of the HL games if you tried this the enemies (soldiers of course) would just chuck in gernades.

EDIT: my only compliant is that the elites didn't act much different than ordinary soldiers.

[avraell]

... as I and the person above me said.

[Dag]

I wanted to see more difference in the Enemies. Like between the Metro Cops and Soldiers. They do have different fighting styles, but the soldiers are not noticably better than the Cops. And I miss the Alien Grunt. Those things were just so cool, when this big hulking alien comes up out of nowhere to kill you.

[kupocake]

Like between the Metro Cops and Soldiers. They do have different fighting styles, but the soldiers are not noticably better than the Cops.
You are joking right? Metrocops just stand there and fire pistol shots in your general direction. You can effectively fight them by running up to them and giving them a Crowbar makeover... Soldiers move about, flank you, co-operate and flush you out with grenades

[twad]

not enough grenades.
In HL1, if you made the mistake of staying in the open, i would RAIN grenades all over you (and they hit 100% of the time, regardless of range/time it took the nade to hit you.. except if you move out of the way, and those marines who used mp5 mounted nades were so deadly!

in HL2, most nades (both hand AND Mp7 mounted nades) are scripted events. And those that are not are rare (hand) if non-existing (grenade lancher from mp7..).

[r2000]

not enough grenades.
In HL1, if you made the mistake of staying in the open, i would RAIN grenades all over you (and they hit 100% of the time, regardless of range/time it took the nade to hit you.. except if you move out of the way, and those marines who used mp5 mounted nades were so deadly!

in HL2, most nades (both hand AND Mp7 mounted nades) are scripted events. And those that are not are rare (hand) if non-existing (grenade lancher from mp7..).
True dat. More grenade usage. The AI is pretty damn deadly. In hard, the shotgun guys wheeled out of cover, lined up and never missed a shot they took. They were an angel of death. I would ignore super elites, to kill shotgun overwatch.

[RecklessSneak]

I enjoy waiting for the zombies to get really close and then throw a bucket of paint at them with the gravity gun. They should add more humerous objects to the game. Those headcrab zombies all look the same. They all have the same clothes and bodies. Give then some fashion sense. And where are the combine zombies? Just humans.

[Salad22]

The combine aren't human beings, they are aliens so there is no human vs human battle in HL2..

thank god for that!! The humans like the marines in HL1 are much harder to kill of course than aliens

You see thoose metrocops, they are not humans, simply aliens : not wonder why they are so stupid

In the beginning step off the train and you will see a single combine guard watching everybody, take a bottle or a can. trow it on his head and run
He will chase you for 6 sec and then he ignore you, you can do this in 5 hours straight

After you meet barney for the first time, then go all the way until you're out side, there is a fence with a stone sthing in the middle with a combine monitor on it. Jump on the fence then jump on one of the two police officers head. he will trying to hit you with his chock thing but just jump all the time and then he will miss.

God it was so god damn funny! :)

[Danimal]

Salad, metropolice are indeed humans. Most are volunteers with slight modifacation.

So yes, there is a little human to human combat.

[Salad22]

Humans? humans that work for the aliens? wierd!!
F*cking idiots

[Angry Lawyer]

And you wouldn't?

The choice between being a downtrodden refugee with no food, or a guy that gets extra rations, a comfy place to sleep, and other benefits offered by the Combine?

I know what I'd choose.

-Angry Lawyer

[Sulkdodds]

Er, yeah, I'd join the resistance. Like joining the Combine, but with added sense of moral superiority.

Metrocops = humans lacking moral fibre
Combine Soldiers = experienced Metrocops, heavily modified and possibly brainwashed
Elites = experienced Combine Soldiers promoted to special forces

[Rennmniscant]

Maybe in Aftermath, they'll have a more troubling moral issue than just blowing up Met Cops and soldiers. The stalkers may yet take part, and that I think would be a hard thing to kill. It is much easier to kill a hideous monster than a raving mad prisoner - aka stalker. The combine troops are pretty stupid thought, so they should integrate more AI rather than just script, like I said before.