View Full Version : Doom 3:RoE Shots
Ingame Shots: SPOILERS!!!!!!!
http://img178.exs.cx/img178/1442/shot000017dn.jpg
http://img178.exs.cx/img178/2722/shot000062yb.jpg
http://img178.exs.cx/img178/1924/shot000087lu.jpg
http://img178.exs.cx/img178/1626/shot000100ts.jpg
http://img178.exs.cx/img178/8545/shot000112sz.jpg
http://img178.exs.cx/img178/4664/shot000138mm.jpg
http://img178.exs.cx/img178/1703/shot000179lu.jpg
http://img140.exs.cx/img140/2703/shot000192yh.jpg
http://img140.exs.cx/img140/6729/shot000203iy.jpg
http://img140.exs.cx/img140/2184/shot000224jg.jpg
http://img210.exs.cx/img210/7628/shot000270vg.jpg
http://img210.exs.cx/img210/5508/shot000317gp.jpg
http://img210.exs.cx/img210/3060/shot000349vd.jpg
http://img210.exs.cx/img210/2302/shot000355eo.jpg
http://img210.exs.cx/img210/5299/shot000366oi.jpg
http://img210.exs.cx/img210/8531/shot000461oo.jpg
http://img210.exs.cx/img210/3354/shot000459ru.jpg
http://img210.exs.cx/img210/7992/shot000396vm.jpg
http://img175.exs.cx/img175/188/shot000438vo.jpg
CTF:
http://img135.exs.cx/img135/1139/shot000537gy.jpg
http://img135.exs.cx/img135/6105/shot000520qp.jpg
http://img135.exs.cx/img135/8195/shot000489so.jpg
http://img135.exs.cx/img135/3503/shot000474xs.jpg
Source:
http://discuss.futuremark.com/forum/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=gaminggeneral&Number=5057606&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=1&vc=1
Lt. Drebin
02-04-2005, 03:47 PM
It's lookin like more Doom 3 goodness.
I'll be getting ROE in a few weeks. I'm pickin up Doom 3 XBbox on Monday....Collector Ed. of course.
ROE looks really good. They've added a few features with these "souls" you can collect and have these special powers. I'm not sure what exactly the story is, but it's lookin cool...especially for an expansion.
Gorgon
02-04-2005, 04:27 PM
Awsome, I am dling it as we speak :D
Prince of China
02-04-2005, 04:29 PM
It's looking good.
Awsome, I am dling it as we speak :DTch, tch. Didn't mama ever tell you piracy was illegal?
Looks alright, but the visuals still remind me of plastic and saran wrap. I think some of the new features look pretty cool, but it's not enough to warrant a purchase from me.
Cool,
what's with all the soulcubes? http://img210.exs.cx/img210/7992/shot000396vm.jpg
ROFL
http://img210.exs.cx/img210/8531/shot000461oo.jpg
I'll probably get this, let's just hope it's actually scary this time. The first one lost its fright factor about 25% into the game for me because the spawning of the monsters was so repetitive it was almost a cycle.
Cool,
what's with all the soulcubes? http://img210.exs.cx/img210/7992/shot000396vm.jpg
It's in one of the gameplay movies. They move back and forth and kill(?) you if you touch them. The player stops time in order to avoid them.
B-MAn
02-04-2005, 04:52 PM
after the end of the Hell level i just stopped playing. i'm not sure about this one now :(
Gorgon
02-04-2005, 05:07 PM
It's in one of the gameplay movies. They move back and forth and kill(?) you if you touch them. The player stops time in order to avoid them.
the player stops time by using the heart object, right ?
Does your gun have the flashlight taped to it this time?
the player stops time by using the heart object, right ?
Yes.
Does your gun have the flashlight taped to it this time?
It's attached to your suit.
Garfield_
02-04-2005, 05:29 PM
Looks good :_D
satch919
02-04-2005, 05:45 PM
I can't wait!!!! Im going out today to see if anyone has it on sale. :D
More DOOM = AWESOMENESS!!!
Samon
02-04-2005, 07:48 PM
Nice ;)
Lucid
02-04-2005, 08:17 PM
Does the game actually have light in it this time?
Cerpin
02-04-2005, 08:26 PM
This makes me want to play Doom 3 again. I didn`t like it at all, but the new levels look so much more interesting.
jimbo118
02-04-2005, 09:27 PM
i think i might just get doom3 now tbh,i had the demo and thought while it looked amazing it got sorta boring but its quite cheap so why not,it cant be that bad,can it?
Vorac1ous
02-04-2005, 10:12 PM
Looks good, maybe I'll pick up a copy at Target tomorrow or my reserved with $5 already down on Monday.
satch919
02-04-2005, 10:13 PM
I had the fricken box in my hands. ;(
I went to Wal-Mart to see if they had it on sale early. Sure enough, it was sitting on the shelf. I grabbed a copy and went to the register. The register denied the sale and the ladies behind the counter told me to come back on Monday. Then they pulled it from the shelves. ;(
Oh well, just two more days. :thumbs:
Samon
02-04-2005, 10:19 PM
I had the fricken box in my hands. ;(
I went to Wal-Mart to see if they had it on sale early. Sure enough, it was sitting on the shelf. I grabbed a copy and went to the register. The register denied the sale and the ladies behind the counter told me to come back on Monday. Then they pulled it from the shelves. ;(
Oh well, just two more days. :thumbs:
Owned!!
Lt. Drebin
02-04-2005, 10:42 PM
^^^^
LOL
Has anyone been able to buy it early??
satch919
02-04-2005, 11:01 PM
Owned!!
I know. I kept telling myself that as i was walking back out to my car. :(
^^^^
LOL
Has anyone been able to buy it early??
Yes, there has been lots of people. If you go to PlanetDOOM, you'll see that there's some people who managed to get it early. :)
Asuka
02-04-2005, 11:38 PM
Oh man cant wait. Looks great.
oldagerocker
02-04-2005, 11:48 PM
This expansion looks alittle brighter than the original, it looks good. All i need to do is not be scared and find time to play the original. :(
Lt. Drebin
03-04-2005, 12:00 AM
I went to Wal-Mart to see if they had it on sale early. Sure enough, it was sitting on the shelf. I grabbed a copy and went to the register. The register denied the sale and the ladies behind the counter told me to come back on Monday. Then they pulled it from the shelves. ;(
I tried Wal-Mart also and sure enough it was out there.
No sale though....I was also the victim of Wal-Mart Ownage. :(
KagePrototype
03-04-2005, 01:27 AM
Just played the opening level. First impressions:
If you didn't like Doom 3, don't bother. If you liked Doom 3, keep your expectations low. And yes, so far the grabber feels gimmicky and rushed. Maybe the game gets better, maybe it doesn't, but to me the whole thing feels more like an amateur mod than something done by professionals. And it's not just the grabber either; I'm talking unfinished and rushed looking models + levels, painfully predictable and lame "shock" moments, more-so than D3 (ooh, the room went red for a second...that's it...), voice acting, rubbish pacing...even the title screen looks rushed. And so far the new enemies are just re-treads of the monsters in D3. I'll give it more of a chance tommorow, but so far it's not very good.
jimbo118
03-04-2005, 01:29 AM
Just played the opening level. First impressions:
If you didn't like Doom 3, don't bother. If you liked Doom 3, keep your expectations low. And yes, so far the grabber feels gimmicky and rushed. Maybe the game gets better, maybe it doesn't, but to me the whole thing feels more like an amateur mod than something done by professionals. Even the title screen looks rushed.
not that good then,is it out in in the uk or did you acquire it somewhere else? ;)
Kouler
03-04-2005, 01:37 AM
Wow awesome.
jimbo118
03-04-2005, 01:46 AM
supposedly the sp is 5 hours long,doesnt look worthwhile
off topic:1000 posts
satch919
03-04-2005, 03:31 AM
Im still getting it. I've been hearing the opposite of what Kage has said. People are saying that its full of more action. But, to each his own.
If it's DOOM, I know I'll love it. :D
Adabiviak
03-04-2005, 03:53 AM
I had the fricken box in my hands. ;(
I went to Wal-Mart to see if they had it on sale early. Sure enough, it was sitting on the shelf. I grabbed a copy and went to the register. The register denied the sale and the ladies behind the counter told me to come back on Monday. Then they pulled it from the shelves. ;(
Oh well, just two more days. :thumbs:
Same here - what's with that? Did they put it on the shelf too early?
thenerdguy
03-04-2005, 04:05 AM
wallyworld let me buy it early
http://img39.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img39&image=doom311uq.jpg
http://img39.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img39&image=doom328ss.jpg
http://img39.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img39&image=doom338es.jpg
http://img39.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img39&image=doom345gr.jpg
http://img39.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img39&image=doom355ow.jpg
http://img39.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img39&image=doom364cm.jpg
http://img39.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img39&image=doom380hd.jpg
http://img39.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img39&image=doom396fg.jpg
http://img146.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img146&image=doom3109ht.jpg
http://img146.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img146&image=doom374lr.jpg
Wow you must be like 250 years old in that game..those hands....ugly..(First 3 screens)
Wtf is up with that pistol..
Wow you must be like 250 years old in that game..those hands....ugly..(First 3 screens)
Wtf is up with that pistol..
You get transformed once you use the artifact.
thenerdguy
03-04-2005, 04:45 AM
Wow you must be like 250 years old in that game..those hands....ugly..(First 3 screens)
Wtf is up with that pistol..
What do you mean whats wrong with the pistol?
Mr-Fusion
03-04-2005, 04:47 AM
Do the boobs on that red head girl bounce when she moves?
That's all i really want to know...
Lt. Drebin
03-04-2005, 08:11 AM
Anyone have any luck picking it up early at Target???
Samon
03-04-2005, 09:13 AM
Oops double post
Samon
03-04-2005, 09:15 AM
Just played the opening level. First impressions:
If you didn't like Doom 3, don't bother. If you liked Doom 3, keep your expectations low. And yes, so far the grabber feels gimmicky and rushed. Maybe the game gets better, maybe it doesn't, but to me the whole thing feels more like an amateur mod than something done by professionals. And it's not just the grabber either; I'm talking unfinished and rushed looking models + levels, painfully predictable and lame "shock" moments, more-so than D3 (ooh, the room went red for a second...that's it...), voice acting, rubbish pacing...even the title screen looks rushed. And so far the new enemies are just re-treads of the monsters in D3. I'll give it more of a chance tommorow, but so far it's not very good.
I predicted as much for the grabber. ;(
Nice screens nerguy - I like Sarge's office :D
Garfield_
03-04-2005, 04:50 PM
I hope this isnt like DOOM 3 that you allways know where the enemy is =D
enemies are hiding in every single corner in doom 3
satch919
03-04-2005, 05:48 PM
Anyone have any luck picking it up early at Target???
I checked yesterday and they didn't have it out. They had a sign describing new releases with DOOM 3: ROE on it.
I did see a HL2 fan down there though. A guy with a HL2 shirt. :thumbs:
X-FacToR
03-04-2005, 07:24 PM
Cool same sucky guns, same sucky game. Doom 3 worst $50 ive speant in a long time.
satch919
03-04-2005, 08:09 PM
Cool same sucky guns, same sucky game. Doom 3 worst $50 ive speant in a long time.
Have you played the expansion pack yet? If not, you can't really say that it sucks.
Besides, no one forced you to spend that $50. Thats your fault.
thenerdguy
03-04-2005, 08:18 PM
This game rocks!!!!!!!!!!! Run smooth at 1600x1200 with 8xaa and 16xaf 55+ fps in the middle of a firefight!
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom316gu.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom321qd.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom332ls.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom342aw.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom353rl.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom366sp.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom375qo.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom386uq.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom395qx.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom3105wl.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom3113mg.jpg
Dalamari
03-04-2005, 08:18 PM
Have you played the expansion pack yet? If not, you can't really say that it sucks.
Besides, no one forced you to spend that $50. Thats your fault.
Unless the expansion pack adds a new story, new environment, new title, new name it's under (maybe a Star Wars game!) and new multiplayer, then I think it would be correct to say you can't judge the expansion pack yet. And even though nobody forced him to spend the money, that doesn't change the fact that it was a big let down.
Prince of China
03-04-2005, 08:45 PM
This game rocks!!!!!!!!!!! Run smooth at 1600x1200 with 8xaa and 16xaf 55+ fps in the middle of a firefight!
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom316gu.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom321qd.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom332ls.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom342aw.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom353rl.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom366sp.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom375qo.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom386uq.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom395qx.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom3105wl.jpg
http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom3113mg.jpg
Really? That's good to here, what are your specifications?
X-FacToR
03-04-2005, 08:52 PM
Unless the expansion pack adds a new story, new environment, new title, new name it's under (maybe a Star Wars game!) and new multiplayer, then I think it would be correct to say you can't judge the expansion pack yet. And even though nobody forced him to spend the money, that doesn't change the fact that it was a big let down.
Yeah exactly, hey all the powr to the doom 3 fans, I just didnt see anything good from my stand point.
satch919
03-04-2005, 10:00 PM
Really? That's good to here, what are your specifications?
From the screenshots, it doesn't look like he has AA and AF at the levels that he says they're at.
Look at this pic: http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom353rl.jpg
If the AF was at the level that he said it was at, the textures on the floor wouldn't be as blurry as they are in the pic. Same goes for the AA.
You may want to check your settings again.
Sparta
04-04-2005, 02:19 AM
Graphics look cool as always.........but the gameplay of Doom 3 was terribly dull, if its anything like that (Which it is according to Kage) then i'll pass.
Lt. Drebin
04-04-2005, 05:19 AM
From the screenshots, it doesn't look like he has AA and AF at the levels that he says they're at.
Look at this pic: http://img213.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img213&image=doom353rl.jpg
If the AF was at the level that he said it was at, the textures on the floor wouldn't be as blurry as they are in the pic. Same goes for the AA.
You may want to check your settings again.
I have to agree Satch. Those are quite high settings even for the latest and greatest. Doom 3 is a beast for any of today's cards, sans the new 512 MB cards. Those pics are still very pretty, however.
Still this expansion looks like it has added a few nice features with the soul collecting and such. And even though I've heard it's relativly short, it still looks like a winner in my book. Those hands are pretty creepy too....I'm guessing that has to do with the time -altering aspect. Very cool.
Adabiviak
04-04-2005, 05:41 AM
Dude - is that a gravity gun in the expansion pack I see in pic doom3109ht.jpg? :rolling:
satch919
04-04-2005, 06:05 AM
Dude - is that a gravity gun in the expansion pack I see in pic doom3109ht.jpg? :rolling:
Thats it. Cool huh?
Prince of China
04-04-2005, 06:28 AM
I might get this one, only $45 CDN.
Lt. Drebin
04-04-2005, 03:40 PM
Game Chronicles has ROE game at abot 15-20 hours on the highest difficulty. That seems pretty good for an expansion to me, or is it??? That seems long to me for an expansion. They also gave it a 9.8 overall and it surpasses the original.
The reviewer said he beat it in about 12 hours on marine difficulty.
satch919
04-04-2005, 03:44 PM
Game Chronicles has ROE game at abot 15-20 hours on the highest difficulty. That seems pretty good for an expansion to me, or is it??? That seems long to me for an expansion. They also gave it a 9.8 overall and it surpasses the original.
The reviewer said he beat it in about 12 hours on marine difficulty.
Good news! :thumbs: It shall be mine later today!
Vorac1ous
04-04-2005, 03:46 PM
If it's that long than there is probably 16 or 17 levels which is pretty damn good for an Expansion pack :)
satch919
04-04-2005, 03:53 PM
Indeed. Thats longer than I had expected. I want to play it on the hardest difficulty to get the most out of it.
satch919
04-04-2005, 03:58 PM
Gamespot has a bunch of new screenshots up of ROE.
Here's the link:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/doom3resurrectionofevil/screenindex.html?page=1
EDIT - All the shots look absolutely fantastic! :)
Prince of China
04-04-2005, 04:29 PM
This expansion sounds real good.
Gamespot also has a load of new movies.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/action/doom3resurrectionofevil/media.html
Funky Munky
04-04-2005, 08:24 PM
I can't see shit in those screenshots.
Oh right, its DOOM. :sleep:
Samon
04-04-2005, 10:28 PM
I can't see shit in those screenshots.
Oh right, its DOOM. :sleep:
:laugh: :laugh:
Vorac1ous
04-04-2005, 10:34 PM
I can't see shit in those screenshots.
Oh right, its DOOM. :sleep:My friend, turn on the flashlight ... or put your gamma to the highest possible setting.
Samon
04-04-2005, 10:38 PM
My friend, turn on the flashlight ... or put your gamma to the highest possible setting.
He was bieng sarcastic. :upstare:
Spectre01
04-04-2005, 10:46 PM
LOL, form what I've heard it's really good. i loved Doom 3 so I will propably enjoy this even more.
satch919
04-04-2005, 11:10 PM
I just got done installing it. I have to do my homework first. :angry:
Oh right, its DOOM.
Doom 3, Doom & Doom 2 wern't dark as hell
Lt. Drebin
04-04-2005, 11:23 PM
Doom 3, Doom & Doom 2 wern't dark as hell
Agreed...I had no problems whatsoever seeing in Doom 3.
Pissed....I won't be able to play ROE until tomorrow....way too much work to do. Sux. ;(
Samon
05-04-2005, 12:51 AM
I just got done installing it. I have to do my homework first. :angry:
Owned. AGAIN.
satch919
05-04-2005, 03:34 AM
Owned. AGAIN.
I've come to expect that in life. :(
AzzMan
05-04-2005, 04:50 AM
At least you have the game. I've got 15 bux and I dont get paid till saturday :|
Vorac1ous
05-04-2005, 05:00 AM
I bought it today & I must say I'm very impressed with it. I made a thread at PlanetDoom where I discuss my feelings about it into a ton more detail if anybody is interested.
Asuka
05-04-2005, 06:16 AM
I just got it today and been playing it. OMG ITS INSANE. Love it. Everyone who loved Doom 3 will love this just as much. People who didnt like Doom 3 to much will love this. Its OMG KICKASS!!!
satch919
05-04-2005, 07:12 AM
I just got it today and been playing it. OMG ITS INSANE. Love it. Everyone who loved Doom 3 will love this just as much. People who didnt like Doom 3 to much will love this. Its OMG KICKASS!!!
It does kick ass. I love the way it starts. I only got to play it for about 5-10mins this afternoon. And the graphics, OMG the graphics!!!!!!
Sparta
05-04-2005, 08:18 AM
I'm not sure if it was posted but it got 8.5 from Gamespot. From everything i've heard it basically says if you liked Doom 3 you'll like this, if you didn't like it, dont bother.
Samon
05-04-2005, 09:10 AM
I've come to expect that in life. :(
Have a cookie?
Kouler
05-04-2005, 09:48 AM
Wow this game rocks! So cool!
TIIMMYY
05-04-2005, 10:31 AM
Wait a min.........this game has co-op?
jimbo118
05-04-2005, 12:53 PM
lol ign actually gave a lower review than gs,8.4,are they ok?
Sparta
05-04-2005, 01:19 PM
Wait a min.........this game has co-op?
Nope. X-box version of Doom 3 does, but not the expansion.
Kouler
05-04-2005, 01:31 PM
Well, i just finished the game. It was a great game, the final boss is much harder than Doom3's final boss, thats for sure. And the last 2 levels are really intense.
Samon
05-04-2005, 05:09 PM
Nope. X-box version of Doom 3 does, but not the expansion.
And i think you can only have split screen coop in the limited edition right?
Lt. Drebin
05-04-2005, 05:11 PM
Now we need the "Hell on Earth" expansion.....WOOHOO.
So far so good. ROE is great so far and shaping up to be an excellent expansion. Nerve seem to have done a good job.
Dumb Dude
05-04-2005, 05:16 PM
And i think you can only have split screen coop in the limited edition right?
Co-op is only over system link or Xbox Live. The Xbox is pretty much chugging along as it is on Doom 3, split screen would make the xbox catch on fire. :P
Venmoch
05-04-2005, 06:09 PM
And i think you can only have split screen coop in the limited edition right?
Thats for the versions of DOOM and DOOM2 that come with it :D
Samon
05-04-2005, 06:43 PM
*Has a breakdown*
Kristafon
05-04-2005, 07:08 PM
Co-op is only over system link or Xbox Live. The Xbox is pretty much chugging along as it is on Doom 3, split screen would make the xbox catch on fire. :P
LOL Iv heard it does that anyway so!
Vorac1ous
05-04-2005, 09:25 PM
I'm surprised to see lower than an 8.5, I think RoE is better than the original Doom3 IMO. Then again, Gamespot has always been a joke & so has IGN. :)
Just picked this up...will try it later
Murray_H
06-04-2005, 04:47 AM
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/doom-3-resurrection-of-evil/601519p1.html
3.5 stars from Gamespy
satch919
06-04-2005, 04:52 AM
I just got done playing a little bit more and its very impressive. I still find myself being in awe of the engine and its graphics.
Im really digging the double shotty. It packs some punch. Those new enemies with the tail are a bitch to kill. I always slow down time so that I can deal with them appropriately.
All in all, its a very worthy expansion pack to an already great game.
EDIT - What about that room that lags a whole bunch? Im sure I was hitting single digit framerates. What was the problem?!?
Prince of China
06-04-2005, 05:59 AM
Usually, for most of their games, they made two expansion packs, at least for the Quake games.
Asuka
06-04-2005, 05:59 PM
Just played the opening level. First impressions:
If you didn't like Doom 3, don't bother. If you liked Doom 3, keep your expectations low. And yes, so far the grabber feels gimmicky and rushed. Maybe the game gets better, maybe it doesn't, but to me the whole thing feels more like an amateur mod than something done by professionals. And it's not just the grabber either; I'm talking unfinished and rushed looking models + levels, painfully predictable and lame "shock" moments, more-so than D3 (ooh, the room went red for a second...that's it...), voice acting, rubbish pacing...even the title screen looks rushed. And so far the new enemies are just re-treads of the monsters in D3. I'll give it more of a chance tommorow, but so far it's not very good.
Sounds like your playing on super low settings, have a crappy sound system and are a 100% doom 3 hater!
People who liked doom 3 will love this.
People who didnt like doom 3 will most likely like this more then doom3.
People who hate doom 3 will post things like he just did.
:afro: Ya booom swoooop1 :afro:
KagePrototype
06-04-2005, 06:21 PM
Sounds like your playing on super low settings, have a crappy sound system and are a 100% doom 3 hater!
People who liked doom 3 will love this.
People who didnt like doom 3 will most likely like this more then doom3.
People who hate doom 3 will post things like he just did.
:afro: Ya booom swoooop1 :afro:
Oh shush. :P
I play on high settings, with 5.1 headphones, and I liked Doom 3 quite a lot. :p RoE just seems all really rushed and amateur to me, like a glorified map pack. There's none of the great pacing and atmosphere from the first, all you're left with is a bunch of corridors full of enemies that all behave the same way. The "jump" moments are rubbish as well, and the puzzles feel slightly out of place and kill the pacing. Though I have gotten used to the grabber, which feels better. :)
All IMHO, of course. :p
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