Theorizing about Combine Origin

[CharybdisXV]

Are the Combine sentient fungi? A species that has, somehow through the accidents of evolution, developed intelligence and telepathic communication. They lived in their dark world, paralyzed in their primordial bodies that reacted only to the stimuli of sustenance, dreaming together of abstract ideas, forming collectives of them. I wonder, what kind of senses would they have? Something perhaps not understood to us. But somehow, they were able to one day come in contact with the physical that had before been unknown to them. Perhaps, after eons of their dreaming and evolving, they came in contact with another creature that possessed telepathy. And then their minds were opened up to a whole new dimension of the physical, as these alien ideas flowed through to them. These other creatures lived a dual existence, of inward consciousness and hive minds like the fungi, but also of willful movement through and manipulation of space. The Combine, having somewhere developed curiosity, saw a way to vastly expand and utilize their abstract knowledge, by navigating this new dimension and encountering new stimuli, developing new ideas. But they lacked senses of the physical, and limbs that would move under will.

The Combine drew from their vast abstract knowledge, applied it to their new ideas of physicality they had learned, and developed ideas of how to use materials, and use it to enhance themselves. They could build appendages that would allow them movement. The appendages would also allow them to manipulate and sense their environments. First, they would have to have the physical beings help them build these things, either through mental overpowerment or coercion. These other creatures, having somewhat of a a capacity for understanding the vast knowledge of the Combine, probably would've gladly helped them if it facillitated the sharing of knowledge between their species. Perhaps this set a precedent for the sentient fungi's dealings with the physical beings, whose minds were not as powerful in abstract thought due to partially being devoted to sensory interpretation and motor skills. The Combine learned they could, rather than doing things themselves, continue to manipulate other beings. And the other beings could have physical additions made to them as well, to enhance their ability to serve the Combine.

The Combine started to develop grander plans for how they could traverse and manipulate the physical world. But it required more resources than their world contained. Yet, they knew from their contact with other beings, that more worlds existed.

[Pressure]

That's an interesting idea.

[FireCrack]

Neat idea, but such a species with no way to defend itself or properly reproduce would never evolve.

[Teta_Bonita]

uhh... wha?
That's cool and all, but (no offense) just a weeee bit nerdy.... :rolleyes:

[Lord_PackRat]

Neat idea, but such a species with no way to defend itself or properly reproduce would never evolve.

yeah, but you're assuming that the planet the combine originated on had a biosphere similar to that of earth. There may be nothing but fungi and other simple life on the combine homeworld. In that case they would have no need to defend themselves.

as for reproduction, im not sure what you mean by 'properly reproduce' but the forms of reproduction that more complex life uses are just evolutionary offshoots of simple cell division.

uhh... wha?
That's cool and all, but (no offense) just a weeee bit nerdy.... :rolleyes:

lol, nerdy? you realise that this is a forum devoted entirely to a computer game... :rolleyes:

[CharybdisXV]

It's kinda cool to think that some plant life on our planet could develop uber-intelligence, but we'd just eat it since we couldn't communicate with it. :D

[Ennui]

They could also be flesh-eating rabbits that evolved from humans, but we don't know and there's no way to tell.

[beam]

Cool idea...thx for sharing :thumbs: /NOTSARCASM

You maybe on to something with the telepathy. Both times we see the combine it's communicating with Breen yet it doesn't speak to him. I think you are dead on with it, as far as fungi go...I dunno :x

[Pressure]

I think they're telepatchic also. They do need the aid of mechanical limbs since it looked like it didn't have any of it's own. As for being a fungi I don't know about that. The one we see in HL2 looks like some sort of a slugish creature.

[CREMATOR666]

The combines are an inter-galactic fungi?!! OOooooooooo :O some theories never ceased to amaze :D

[Wolfenhex]

"Carbon stars with ancient satellites colonized by sentient fungi." - Breen

I like the fungi theory, it surprisingly makes a lot of sense.

If they are sentient fungi they really can't do anything else but sit around and develop their minds ... at least not until they started taking control of other species.

The one you saw is just a giant green blob. It really could be a fungi.

[Laivasse]

The one you saw is just a giant green blob. It really could be a fungi.

The idea of it being a blob is that it has become so dependent on technology that it has physically devolved into that. Therefore it wouldn't have started out as a blob either.

[Lawnmower233]

One problem i can find with that theory, although its small, is that without sensory organs how would fungi gain any intelligence at, if they lived in the dark witout any stimulation how would they create new neuron connections?

Intelligence in my opinion is the ability to form connections and percieve patterns between abstract constructs like "tables" made of "wood". So without ever percieving ANYTHING at all or very limited stimuli from feeling, i doubt they would even be able to tell what the number 1 meant. Although there have been some cool cases of microscopic bacteria when threatened forming into a garden-slug type insect and slithering away. Apart from that i dont see how something as simple as a fungus could develop into the plane of problem solving and abstract thinking that we humans dub "intelligence".

[pomegranate]

Well, the Combine Advisor looks more like a slug. BUT its skin does look like stitched material....so maybe it is a big sack of fungi, or a community of single-(or few)-celled organisms..

[CharybdisXV]

That is true, that they would have to have some form of senses. I have trouble relating any senses they could possibly have to ones we have, however, which is why I just left it open that they perhaps only had senses that would be very alien to us. It would also be difficult to justify them naturally perceiving the world the way we do without having the means to respond well to certain stimuli, such as, seeing a threat, but not being able to avoid it. Though, I am sure there are ways to respond to a threat beyond just moving out of the way. Many plants have rather unique ways of dealing with threats, such as those trees that release a poisonous chemical into their leaves if they are bitten.

Then again, it's possible they could have, as some freakish accident, developed very articulate senses similar to ours, without the same ways of dealing with their environment that we have. It seems that species can develop features that they don't have an immediate, obvious need for. Humans could survive with less intelligence than they have, and supposedly don't use their full potential either, so would we be an example of creatures that evolved something that we don't have a real need for yet in our survival? But having these "extra" features makes something more able to survive if circumstances change and a usage for that feature arises.

[Wolfenhex]

The idea of it being a blob is that it has become so dependent on technology that it has physically devolved into that. Therefore it wouldn't have started out as a blob either.

It still could have. It may have always been a blob and dependent on technology from the very start. Being dependent on technology doesn't mean the technology made you that way.

One problem i can find with that theory, although its small, is that without sensory organs how would fungi gain any intelligence at, if they lived in the dark witout any stimulation how would they create new neuron connections?

They could have evolved a form of sensory organs (and still be fungi). Look at a Venus Fly Trap, it senses when an insect is inside of it to close itself.

Maybe the Combine are a higher form of plant life that we have not seen on this planet yet. Breen talks about "ancient satellites". Maybe they are ancient as far as celestial bodies go. I believe our solar system is only middle-aged, so they could be way ahead of us as far as evolution goes.

[Laivasse]

It still could have. It may have always been a blob and dependent on technology from the very start. Being dependent on technology doesn't mean the technology made you that way.

Possible, but I'd imagine that it's very hard to construct advanced tech when you're just a blob. Quote from RtB:

"In designing this character we wanted to suppose that an organism, not unlike humans, began to depend on the technology that was originally created to improve its quality of life. Over the course of its evolution, it became grublike, with limbs no longer able to support its own weight, eyes too feeble to see without aid, a body now incapable of movement, fully dependent on the technology that it created."
- Ted Backman

[Sid Burn]

Nice... I almost believed that one.

[Jintor]

Combine = Fungi

Fungi = mushroom

therefore:

Combine = Dinner

[Defpotec22]

what if it's a poison mushroom?

[Pai-Mei]

If they are sentient fungi they really can't do anything else but sit around and develop their minds ... at least not until they started taking control of other species.

Well, we've certainly seen sentient mushrooms in a game before. (http://www.geocities.com/cursemonkey/toadsworth/Toadsworth.jpg)

And, if Breen talks about "sentient fungi" inhabiting ancient satellites, then there are obviously sentient fungi in the HL universe somewhere.

Whether it may make Darwin turn in his grave or Arthur C. Clarke wet his pants, the fact remains that the HL universe includes sentient fungi.

I'll have to disagree that the Combine are sentient fungi, however, and go with the Raising the Bar quote.

"In designing this character we wanted to suppose that an organism, not unlike humans, began to depend on the technology that was originally created to improve its quality of life. Over the course of its evolution, it became grublike, with limbs no longer able to support its own weight, eyes too feeble to see without aid, a body now incapable of movement, fully dependent on the technology that it created."
- Ted Backman

Seems to me that they were once human enough, if entirely dissimilar in appearance. They remind me of the Cerebrates in StarCraft. The Cerebrates completely lack any ability to move but are extremely intelligent, both strategy wise and the ability to multitask... controlling thousands of Zerg units at any given time.

Maybe, like StarCraft, the Combine were created by another race but grew too powerful and overthrew their creators.

[CharybdisXV]

I'll have to disagree that the Combine are sentient fungi, however, and go with the Raising the Bar quote.

Seems to me that they were once human enough, if entirely dissimilar in appearance. They remind me of the Cerebrates in StarCraft. The Cerebrates completely lack any ability to move but are extremely intelligent, both strategy wise and the ability to multitask... controlling thousands of Zerg units at any given time.

Maybe, like StarCraft, the Combine were created by another race but grew too powerful and overthrew their creators.


At least Raising the Bar gave us a rather conclusive answer. But maybe we WILL see the sentient fungi somewhere. I think it's a damn cool idea and would love to see what they do with it. Unless they're like the Mushroom Kingdom fungi. Those guys are creepy, no kidding.

The Cerebrates sound awesome too, and do sound like they could be similar to the Combine.

[Wolfenhex]

Maybe, like StarCraft, the Combine were created by another race but grew too powerful and overthrew their creators.

Battlestar Galactica comes to mind...


I don't have RtB, so I'm stuck believing they're fungi.

I hope if we do see sentient fungi they're little mushrooms that ride headcrabs into battle...

I'd really like to see some sentient fungi in HL3. Even if they did look like a bunch of Mushroom Kingdom rejects, they'd be fun to shoot.

[ríomhaire]

Someone scan every page of raising the f**king bar and post it on a webpage, I'm so sick of not having it.

[pomegranate]

Someone scan every page of raising the f**king bar and post it on a webpage, I'm so sick of not having it.

Or maybe you could just buy it like everyone else who wanted did?

[ríomhaire]

Where?

[TheAmazingRando]

I bought my copy of RtB at EB Games.

[ríomhaire]

The only place I might get it is a 6 hour drive, I live in the middle of f**king nowhere.

[TheAmazingRando]

You can probably get it by ordering it online from EB's website or an affiliate store as well.

[ríomhaire]

What's EB?

[TheAmazingRando]

It is a store that sells video games. That is where I purchased my copy of Raising the Bar and I believe you can purchase it off their website.

[ríomhaire]

Do you think they will deliver to a place an hour away from the nearest city in Ireland?

[pomegranate]

double post

[pomegranate]

Can't you order from Amazon UK? Or Ebay? Or any online store that delivers international? You talk about it like you live in Stalinist Russia....

[CharybdisXV]

Order it from Amazon, they have it cheaper than EB or any other game store. Amazon sells everything at a discount compared to other stores (at least in the US) and has free shipping on a lot of things. If you've got money, a credit card, and postal service where you live, you've got no excuse not to get any new books you want.

[Pai-Mei]

But maybe we WILL see the sentient fungi somewhere.

They would probably be like the smart "lights" on Xen... the ones that hide when you go near them.


Took me less than 10 seconds to find after openning a new browser window:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0761543643/qid=1109544801/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-6487431-7610233?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[CharybdisXV]

They would probably be like the smart "lights" on Xen... the ones that hide when you go near them.


Possibly. A lot of things in Xen looked fungi like. All kinds of weird life there, everywhere. Those "trampoline" things could've even been fungi.

[Black Ops4]

You know, its a proven fact that some fungi spores are so small and light that they are uneffected by Earth's gravity and can float out into space?

These same spores can also withstand super-low temperatures and survive for thousands of years.

It would be funny if we found an alien planet with life on it and saw the same fungi that we have on Earth! :laugh:

Still, knowing what fungi are capable of doing, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't originate on Earth anyway. They don't really fit in with the other plants either...
*dun dun dun*

It is an interesting theory though. It is possible the Combine originated as fungi, perhaps the actual 'Combine' creatures are small viral things that live inside brains...
When anyone says 'The Combine' they are pretty much referring to the whole arsenal of different aliens and technologies that have been 'collected' by the original creatures, I think it would be hard to determine where they originated from.

Who knows, perhaps a human was the beginning of the Combine.

[pomegranate]

Ummm.... I don't think anything is totally uneffected by the Earth's gravity, exactly.

[Angry Lawyer]

He means light enough to dimply diffuse out into space. Everything in the niverse is affected by Earth's gravity, in the same way that Earth is affected by everything in the universe's gravity. I had the equation somewhere once that proves this, but I've lost it.

The Sentient Fungus thing, however, was hinted at by Breen, although I doubt he was referring to the actual Combine, but another race under their dominion.

See? The Combine are accepting enough to allow for little thinking fungus, they're not that evil after all. Horray for the Combine.

-Angry Lawyer

[pomegranate]

How can anything diffuse out into space? Surely for something to move out into space, there would have to be greater relative gravity effecting it than that of the Earth? What difference does mass make?
Not saying anyone is wrong, just curious?

[Walkman]

there could be some truth to this fungi idea. Ive known plenty of guys on campus that fit the description of nothing more than slightly intelligent mold.

[AJ Rimmer]

there could be some truth to this fungi idea. Ive known plenty of guys on campus that fit the description of nothing more than slightly intelligent mold.
:laugh:
"There's a fungus among us"

[Black Ops4]

How can anything diffuse out into space? Surely for something to move out into space, there would have to be greater relative gravity effecting it than that of the Earth? What difference does mass make?
Not saying anyone is wrong, just curious?

I can't really explain it myself, but I heard it on a documentary. Apparently fungi and bacteria already live in space too. Here are some related links:
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/spacefungus1.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/not_in_website/syndication/monitoring/media_reports/1209034.stm

[AndroidXP]

Well, here's our space fungus:

[AJ Rimmer]

Well, here's our space fungus:
Might be good with some sausages...



...then again maybe not.

[JesusChrist]

U will see Breen talking to a big-bug creature at black energy...and this guy is the real combine...

[AndroidXP]

:rolleyes:

Only... two... posts... up
*argh*

[RezSav]

the combine are the humans, in the last level when you're headed for breen's lab you'll see someone cross you with red nightvision goggles stuck in his head. This happens before you reach that red beam where the turret takes you picture (when your sitting in those pods)

[AndroidXP]

If you mean the stalkers, no that are not *the* combine. That are crippled human slaves. And the "nightvision" thingy on their head is actually some kind of restriction, those two lids on the side can be closed so they don't see anything. But this isn't too clear just from what you see while driving/floating by, you actually have to look at the models to recognize this.

/E: I suppose you mean this guy:

[terrorist420]

so are stalkers phycically sent orders or whats the dealio with their commands?

[Takaitokuten]

I read somewhere that the combine were just another human esque race in another universe, and they started relying more and more on technology to sustain themselves longer and make their lives more enjoyable, but they started to depend more and more on the technology they themselves created, losing more and more human features from less and less activity, developing into a race of... whatever they are now... I think its valve saying that this is what technology is doing to us and blah blah blah...

[ríomhaire]

/E: I suppose you mean this guy:
Does anyone else think it looks like it's dancing?


I read somewhere that the combine were just another human esque race in another universe, and they started relying more and more on technology to sustain themselves longer and make their lives more enjoyable, but they started to depend more and more on the technology they themselves created, losing more and more human features from less and less activity, developing into a race of... whatever they are now... I think its valve saying that this is what technology is doing to us and blah blah blah...
In raising the bar

[Polaris]

You can see Combine world when the Citadel teleport forms portal to their planet and emit orange particles. These particles is some sort of mirror and you can see Combine world-its some city with many towers.
Sorry I havent screenshot.