View Full Version : How old is too old?
Locust
17-08-2004, 08:37 PM
At what age do you think a person should give up PC gaming or gaming in any other form? I would say the maximum age would be about 25. Any age beyond that is too old.
Direwolf
17-08-2004, 08:39 PM
None. Average gamer age is already way beyond 25. The average woman who plays games is 40.
Neutrino
17-08-2004, 08:41 PM
Who the heck cares how old a person is? If they enjoy gaming as a hobby then that's great.
By your rules I have to give up gaming in 3 years. I don't think so.
B3@$T
17-08-2004, 08:42 PM
You cant give someone a age 2 quit gaming. If 25 was the age 2 stop them umm there really wouldnt be any games being created because most of the people creating games are gamers way past 25. There shouldnt be an age limit because well thats just silly. :D
CptStern
17-08-2004, 08:43 PM
I was in a over 25 BF vietnam clan ...the oldest member was 63
it's very narrow minded to say "you're too old to play" age is relative ...now a minimum age requirement ...that's a good idea
btw I've been playng games longer than some of you have been alive ...so call me experienced but dont call me old
Direwolf
17-08-2004, 08:43 PM
Its an ignorant stereotype that games are for kids. Fortunately its one that is fading out of existence as we all get older.
Farrowlesparrow
17-08-2004, 08:44 PM
I may get bored of gaming by the time I'm 25 (Probably not :D) but I don't think someone should quite because of their age...thats just a poor attitude really. Imagine when you are older being told by some kid you can't do something because you are too old. :|
abconners, any reasoning to your logic?
Murray_H
17-08-2004, 08:47 PM
Darn it, i thought this was a mis-forumed posts about milfs......;)
Anyway
Although it seems odd to have an older person playing games, can't see any upper limit for them. Keep the brain stimulated and there's less chance of it going tits up it said on the Bupa advert....or words to that effect
No Limit
17-08-2004, 08:47 PM
People can be as old as they want to be to start playing games. My father is 40 something and still plays PC and console games on a regular basis, he sucks but he still plays :P. We both have broadband connections so I play with him online occasionally.
My mother is also close to 40 and she still plays a few older games, mostly Mario for old nintendo.
daveodeth
17-08-2004, 08:47 PM
I don't care how old you are or how old i am. I'm still gonna rip out your lungs and use em as bagpipes. :)
RotorHead
17-08-2004, 08:49 PM
as long as you can see the monitor and move a mouse. you can play video games............... :smoking:
your statement is stupid................... :monkee:
Gunner
17-08-2004, 08:56 PM
You're never too old to have fun ;)
Prince of China
17-08-2004, 08:59 PM
You're never too old to watch T.V.
You're definetly never too old to use the internet let along play games.
slicktick
17-08-2004, 09:02 PM
Never stop playing games, if my dad had stopped when he was 25 i wouldnt be talking to you guys today!
CptStern
17-08-2004, 09:08 PM
Never stop playing games, if my dad had stopped when he was 25 i wouldnt be talking to you guys today!
ok I'll bite ...how did that work?
joule
17-08-2004, 09:08 PM
At what age do you think a person should give up PC gaming or gaming in any other form? I would say the maximum age would be about 25. Any age beyond that is too old.
Stupid question. You're never to old to play video/PC games. If you enjoy playing games, then play them.
DarkStar
17-08-2004, 09:09 PM
I would say the maximum age would be about 25. Any age beyond that is too old.
F*ck that. How old is to old to watch TV or go to the movies?
Farrowlesparrow
17-08-2004, 09:11 PM
Darn it, i thought this was a mis-forumed posts about milfs......;)
Anyway
Although it seems odd to have an older person playing games, can't see any upper limit for them. Keep the brain stimulated and there's less chance of it going tits up it said on the Bupa advert....or words to that effect
I believe they actually said, "Arse over tits"
slicktick
17-08-2004, 09:11 PM
ok I'll bite ...how did that work?
When I was little, my dad played video games and was a computer geek and that led to me playing games and being a computer geek. This is especially true with my father playing Dark Castle and Marathon. Marathon especially got me into first person shooters, so basically my dad gaming after he was 25 got me into gaming.
Sprafa
17-08-2004, 09:13 PM
My uncle is 60 and he plays games.
CptStern
17-08-2004, 09:13 PM
When I was little, my dad played video games and was a computer geek and that led to me playing games and being a computer geek. This is especially true with my father playing Dark Castle and Marathon. Marathon especially got me into first person shooters, so basically my dad gaming after he was 25 got me into gaming.
heheh rofl ...heheh ok I had visions of your dad doing the nasty with mom while playing CS :)
Javert
17-08-2004, 09:14 PM
My dad was playing Doom when he was 40.
slicktick
17-08-2004, 09:14 PM
heheh rofl ...heheh ok I had visions of your dad doing the nasty with mom while playing CS :)
I'll pretend like I never read that, and I think that I'll go puke now! Thanks man! :flame:
Murray_H
17-08-2004, 09:14 PM
I believe they actually said, "Arse over tits"
Ah that's the one, cheers :D
Neutrino
17-08-2004, 09:15 PM
heheh rofl ...heheh ok I had visions of your dad doing the nasty with mom while playing CS :)
Me too. Couldn't quite figure out how that was going to work. :laugh:
CptStern
17-08-2004, 09:17 PM
I'll pretend like I never read that, and I think that I'll go puke now! Thanks man! :flame:
sorry man, I bet you'll have that image burned into your head for weeks to come ....sorry :)
btw parents do have sex ya know ...some while playing games :eek:
A2597
17-08-2004, 09:18 PM
when I can no longer see nor hear. Then I shall be to old to game.
Neutrino
17-08-2004, 09:19 PM
sorry man, I bet you'll have that image burned into your head for weeks to come ....sorry :)
btw parents do have sex ya know ...some while playing games :eek:
"Games" being a relative term. :naughty:
PunisherUSA
17-08-2004, 09:19 PM
Essentially, once a gamer, always a gamer. There are the elders in society who have hardly touched electronics, let alone a video game. Those people are beyond help. You do, however, get the people who were Pong and frogger addicts in their 30s, and still play today.
ACLeroK212
17-08-2004, 09:20 PM
I remember seeing a study where the average age of all gamers was in mid to late twenties. So think of all the little kids and teens you know that play video games, then realize for every one of them there's someone in their 30s 40s and even 50s playing video games.
deltron zero
17-08-2004, 09:24 PM
At what age do you think a person should give up PC gaming or gaming in any other form? I would say the maximum age would be about 25. Any age beyond that is too old.
I'll be 25 in Feb. I guess I should uninstall HL2 and all my other games on my birthday then? I say 16 is too old to still watch tv, so everyone over 16, destroy your tv's!!!!
Someone
17-08-2004, 09:28 PM
As long as you have fun, what does age matter? I'll be 37 in a couple months...and I love gaming and probably always will :)
You'll have to pry my mouse and keyboard from my arthritic hands if you want me to stop....and then, if you succeed, I'll beat you with my cane while simeltaneously throwing my viragra and false teeth at you! :P
CptStern
17-08-2004, 09:30 PM
"Games" being a relative term. :naughty:
heheheh ...stop, my eyebrows are starting to hurt :naughty:
Neutrino
17-08-2004, 09:30 PM
As long as you have fun, what does age matter? I'll be 37 in a couple months...and I love gaming and probably always will :)
You'll have to pry my mouse and keyboard from my arthritic hands if you want me to stop....and then, if you succeed, I'll beat you with my cane while simeltaneously throwing my viragra and false teeth at you! :P
Let me know what nursing home you plan on living in. I'll join ya.
heheheh ...stop, my eyebrows are starting to hurt :naughty:
You should have that looked at. I hear excessive eyebrow use can lead to permanent brain damage. In fact, I hear they found one guy's brain lying in the gutter after an extremely bad case of eyebrowism!
CptStern
17-08-2004, 09:42 PM
You should have that looked at. I hear excessive eyebrow use can lead to permanent brain damage. In fact, I hear they found one guy's brain lying in the gutter after an extremely bad case of eyebrowism!
ya I was thinking of shaving them off but then I thought ..what would my co-workers think?
"Dear god stay away from him, he's got a bad case of eyebrowism!"
btw can you get eyebrowism if you have a uni-brow? I always wanted to know that :)
oh and old people can have sense of humor too ...especially when we kick you young'uns arse in games
Locust
17-08-2004, 10:33 PM
By the time a person is 25, they should have responsabilities beyond games and entertainment. they should be focusing on a life goal that will have more fulfillment than blasting some computer animated character. Reality should strike by the time a person is 25, thus causing that person to live a real life.
nw909
17-08-2004, 10:38 PM
By the time a person is 25, they should have responsabilities beyond games and entertainment. they should be focusing on a life goal that will have more fulfillment than blasting some computer animated character. Reality should strike by the time a person is 25, thus causing that person to live a real life.
What the hell?
It's not like you can't live a life and then play games after all your work is done.
Hey, what about people who work in the game industry? ohh I bet your face just exploded.
Prince of China
17-08-2004, 10:41 PM
And what about when you retire? I don't see why you can't play games then.
CptStern
17-08-2004, 10:42 PM
By the time a person is 25, they should have responsabilities beyond games and entertainment. they should be focusing on a life goal that will have more fulfillment than blasting some computer animated character. Reality should strike by the time a person is 25, thus causing that person to live a real life.
ummm I'm way over 25, I'm married, own my home, and have a baby ...but I guess I should ditch all sort of entertainment and concentrate on my "responsibilities" :upstare:
ComradeBadger
17-08-2004, 10:44 PM
Darn it, i thought this was a mis-forumed posts about milfs......;)
Anyway
Although it seems odd to have an older person playing games, can't see any upper limit for them. Keep the brain stimulated and there's less chance of it going tits up it said on the Bupa advert....or words to that effect
Glad to see someone else thought this was about vintage bintage :)
outpost
17-08-2004, 10:45 PM
ummm I'm way over 25, I'm married, own my home, and have a baby ...but I guess I should ditch all sort of entertainment and concentrate on my "responsibilities" :upstare:
Thats right your to old to be here. You should be working or something not having fun.
Sarcasm incase you coudn't tell.
Letters
17-08-2004, 10:45 PM
And what about when you retire? I don't see why you can't play games then.
Maybe if you can't really see... ;)
CptStern
17-08-2004, 10:46 PM
Thats right your to old to be here. You should be working or something not having fun.
Sarcasm incase you coudn't tell.
ya ...maybe I should just lie down and wait for death :)
ACLeroK212
17-08-2004, 10:46 PM
Hey, what about people who work in the game industry? ohh I bet your face just exploded.
Apparently the whole multi-million dollar gaming industry is run by people under the age of 25 I guess.
abconners, the sooner you realize that there are avid gamers that make more money and are more responsible than you'll ever be, the sooner you'll realize just how unjustified your opinion is here.
deltron zero
17-08-2004, 10:50 PM
By the time a person is 25, they should have responsabilities beyond games and entertainment. they should be focusing on a life goal that will have more fulfillment than blasting some computer animated character. Reality should strike by the time a person is 25, thus causing that person to live a real life.
Wow. I can't feel my brain melting inside my skull from reading those words you typed.
dart321
17-08-2004, 10:52 PM
abconners, you realize you just insulted a large number of people right? Including Valve, and just about any of your other favorite game designers?
outpost
17-08-2004, 10:56 PM
Theres a large lan party thats run by people that used to live in my town. USED TO, there all around 25 years old. Now with out them would I be able to go to an awsome lan party and drink bawls and stuff? No I wouldn't be able to.
Prince of China
17-08-2004, 11:01 PM
Maybe if you can't really see... ;)
Old people can play games too. I don't know how they can still play games if they can't see but they have magical powers.
I bet most CS players were really geriatrics.
SoSorry
17-08-2004, 11:02 PM
This thread is kind of retarded since the average gamer is over 25 years old. If anything if you are under 25 years old you should not be playing video games :D. It is my sincere hope that the thread starter will now stop playing video games immediately since he is under 25, and also refrain from making any other silly posts until he does some research - kthxbye
Neutrino
17-08-2004, 11:05 PM
By the time a person is 25, they should have responsabilities beyond games and entertainment. they should be focusing on a life goal that will have more fulfillment than blasting some computer animated character. Reality should strike by the time a person is 25, thus causing that person to live a real life.
Hmm, so by your logic anyone who is older than 25 and "has a life" shouldn't have any hobbies or use any form of entertainment. Makes perfect sense to me really. No one should play games, watch TV, play sports, go fishing or anything else that might be remotely non-productive. Oh and no football I guess too. Might as well cancel the superbowl.
So are you planning on doing this when you turn 25? Remember now, no fun is allowed. You must work 24/7 to keep up with your responsibilities of your mature life. :rolleyes:
Anyway, let's get back to the discussion about eyebrows. It was much more interesting.
Prince of China
17-08-2004, 11:09 PM
If you won 1,000,000,000,000. Screw responsibilities.
Money=Happiness.
outpost
17-08-2004, 11:13 PM
If you won 1,000,000,000,000. Screw responsibilities.
Money=Happiness.
Money=Me buying Valve!
nw909
17-08-2004, 11:14 PM
If you won 1,000,000,000,000. Screw responsibilities.
Money=Happiness.
Money != Happiness
Pr0n bought with money = Happiness!
Max_Payne
17-08-2004, 11:22 PM
wow..... abconners learn a lessona bout life YOU DONT HAVE TO CONFORM TO SOCIETY YOU FUKNUT! jeezuz christ hes stupid...
man i need to play some redneck rampage to vent my anger.. lol
PEACE
Mike
Mattigus
17-08-2004, 11:24 PM
It can't be 19, because I'm 19. Hell, I don't see myself ever quitting gaming. That would be like not going to the movies anymore because your too old.
Max_Payne
17-08-2004, 11:30 PM
HI FIVES Mattigus! BOOYAH DUDE! lol awesome point lol...
PEACE
Mike
Onions
17-08-2004, 11:40 PM
abconners, should i ban you on your 25th birthday? ;)
Raxxman
18-08-2004, 01:45 AM
Seeing as Doom 3 is an 18 plus game, think how limited it would be if people stopped playing at the age of 25.
blahblahblah
18-08-2004, 01:55 AM
By the time a person is 25, they should have responsabilities beyond games and entertainment. they should be focusing on a life goal that will have more fulfillment than blasting some computer animated character. Reality should strike by the time a person is 25, thus causing that person to live a real life.
I've been playing computer games for a third of my life. :O I don't plan on stopping when I reach 25 in the next 4 years.
You do realize that people don't have to spend their entire time playing video games. And people don't have to spend all of their time working?
I even plan to play video games when I get married and have kids. Just because I have other/different obligations doesn't mean I can't play a video game.
Shadow-warrior
18-08-2004, 02:31 AM
I started playing computer games when I was 5 years old, I'm now 27 and plan playing games until I'm strapping myself into my own full body virtual reality sim in 50+ years time.
Computer games are my generations 'invention', you don't grow out of them.
A bit of a whiff of "logans run" in this thread.
"Im sorry citizen , your life clock shows youre too old to be permitted to run this entertainment software. Please report to ms euthanasia at once."
Although , there is a point in his replies so far.I have a thirtysomething friend with kids who spends a bit too much time "playing" SWG and not enough (imho) with the family.
One of the problems for the older generation is its only recently that the games weve always wanted to play have become readily available. For years we had to put up with crappy 8-bit graphics , always waiting for that elusive "next gen" of gaming tech , that was going to deliver what we had been hoping for, and now what? Its here now , but we should eff off cos were too old?
Look at it this way , its only what , 3-4 years ago that games started to look as good as the illustrations on the boxes. Well , personally , I want a piece of that and sod my age.
All we are missing now is software that has a storyline that cerebrally chalenges us that have passed puberty (something that doom3 failed terribly at).
CptStern
18-08-2004, 02:44 AM
A bit of a whiff of "logans run" in this thread.
"Im sorry citizen , your life clock shows youre too old to be permitted to run this entertainment software. Please report to ms euthanasia at once."
Although , there is a point in his replies so far.I have a thirtysomething friend with kids who spends a bit too much time "playing" SWG and not enough (imho) with the family.
One of the problems for the older generation is its only recently that the games weve always wanted to play have become readily available. For years we had to put up with crappy 8-bit graphics , always waiting for that elusive "next gen" of gaming tech , that was going to deliver what we had been hoping for, and now what? Its here now , but we should eff off cos were too old?
Look at it this way , its only what , 3-4 years ago that games started to look as good as the illustrations on the boxes. Well , personally , I want a piece of that and sod my age.
All we are missing now is software that has a storyline that cerebrally chalenges us that have passed puberty (something that doom3 failed terribly at).
well said :)
hehe Logan's run, you must be in my age group if you remember that movie ...ahhh I had a crush on Farah fawcett because of that movie :naughty:
Neutrino
18-08-2004, 02:44 AM
A bit of a whiff of "logans run" in this thread.
I'm sorry to say that I actually understood that reference.
CptStern
18-08-2004, 02:46 AM
hehhe you're not that old, are ya? either that or you're a movie buff
Neutrino
18-08-2004, 02:47 AM
hehhe you're not that old, are ya? either that or you're a movie buff
Only 22. I guess you could say I'm a scifi movie buff. I'll watch anything once. And I like some of the older scifi flicks.
h00dlum
18-08-2004, 02:55 AM
Well if you live a teenage life @ 25 just sitting at home playing games you should probably get a life. But if you have a family and a healthy social life i dont see any need for a age to quit...
CptStern
18-08-2004, 03:09 AM
Only 22. I guess you could say I'm a scifi movie buff. I'll watch anything once. And I like some of the older scifi flicks.
ya me too ...there was a logan's run tv series that lasted a season or two ...it wasnt half bad, might be hard to find on video
Farrowlesparrow
18-08-2004, 03:11 AM
Im 18, and I know what Logan's run is. Its the one with that guy...uh...Clark Kent :|
Actually, I rather liked the film(and yes I do know what it really is), although watching now it makes me cringe :)
Then again, i tend not to forget things like this. Some say its geeky, but its not like I memorise it...I just don't forget.
well , logans run was on channel five on sunday, which is why it came to mind(but, yeah , I`m in your age group *sob*).
But if you remember logans run the tv series.....you really are showing your age stern *grin*.
CptStern
18-08-2004, 03:22 AM
heheh, I also remember Swat, Kolchak: The Night Stalker, Kojack, and Battlestar galatica tv series :farmer:
edit: farrow ya I cant watch those old movies now ...they're so painful
Farrowlesparrow
18-08-2004, 03:26 AM
I wish they had finished Battlestar Galactica. They did that one set in the 80's and it just kind of faded away. Although that new one they did, didn't look to shabby.
CyberSh33p
18-08-2004, 03:37 AM
I don't believe in a set age. if you get bored, thats one thing, but bending to some imaginary societal rule or beaten path just sucks. I'd rather do what I want when I want, if my hobby is games, then thats good. I don't feel like being another miserable number.
Mr-Fusion
18-08-2004, 03:53 AM
I'm of the opinion the older you get the more you should play!!
Young kids should be outside experiencing life and such, adults who've done it all already should be the ones relaxing on the computer for a game of ..whatever.
Avogadro
18-08-2004, 06:43 AM
I'm going to start really gaming when i retire get into evercrack and some other realy addicting games then :)
Gunner
18-08-2004, 12:48 PM
I'd rather do what I want when I want, if my hobby is games, then thats good.
I know what you mean, but some people just don't get it.
Brian Damage
18-08-2004, 01:28 PM
I reckon abconnors has a split personality.
First look at what he/she posts in this thread.
Then:
Half life 2 looks to be the most awsomemest game ever! I mean, nothing like this has been done before nor is it going to be done with any games in the near future. This game puts so much emphasis on realistic physics and enviromental interaction that no one will care about how "equal" the graphics look to doom III or Far Cry. No other game has been this interactive and that is where it will be revolutionary.
So you do like playing games, then, abconnors? Okay...
Then:
Does half life 2 look all that good?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It looks cool and all, but how much better are the physics in real life? I mean it's like come on guys; how much better is it to kick a can or play about with a football than to dream about the artificial stuff in Half Life II? I know that I would much rather spend my time on real life and real physics than to fart around with something fake.
So... you, er, don't want to play Half Life 2? You'd much rather play outside?
Um, it is just a game guys.
Okaaayyy...
So...0 bugs yet!?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
vALVE was supposed to have reached their cero bugs goal by now. Anyone know if they stuck to the deadline or are still fartin around?
I thought it wasn't that important to you? Isn't reality better? Why bother wondering how many bugs are left in it if games are silly?
Oh, look...he/she is even willing to devote a large amount of his/her important time to an online petition that VALVe couldn't care less about:
Half life 2 demo petition
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[URL=http://www.petitiononline.com/hl2pet/petition.html]http://www.petitiononline.com/hl2pet/petition.html Maybe if we get enough signatures, Valve will heed our call
And what's this?
He he hey fellas. I'm excited too. this ga ga game is going to be sound as a pound charle baaaa. this game is going to be sound as a pound charle baaaaaaa. this game is going to be sound as a pound charle baa brown.
So... are you excited about it, or not? And if reality is better than games, and you have so many responsibilities, then why are you here?
Synthaxx R-or
18-08-2004, 01:38 PM
Gamer for life!
Actually, my friends dad (in his late 50's) usually joins us on my CS server. He kicks ass too (not as much as me mind you :D ).
So the statement is absolute mindblowingly stupid. Please don't come back for 12 years (wich should be round or about your 18'th birthday)
Thank you very much, that is all :cheese:
CrazyHarij
18-08-2004, 02:33 PM
Think I'm going to play less and less until I barely play games at all.
AzzMan
18-08-2004, 06:27 PM
if I stopped playing games at 25, that would prolly mean no Hlaf-Life 3. In other words, fux that :)
Someone
18-08-2004, 06:35 PM
heheh, I also remember Swat, Kolchak: The Night Stalker, Kojack, and Battlestar galatica tv series :farmer:
edit: farrow ya I cant watch those old movies now ...they're so painful
Ohh Kolchak: The night stalker...one of my all time favs. The two movies are awesome, the tv show was...well ...you could see the zipper on one too many of the monsters ;)
And..for the young people...The Night Stalker was actually a big inspiration on Chris Carter for the creation of the X-files :)
CptStern
18-08-2004, 06:39 PM
Ohh Kolchak: The night stalker...one of my all time favs. The two movies are awesome, the tv show was...well ...you could see the zipper on one too many of the monsters ;)
And..for the young people...The Night Stalker was actually a big inspiration on Chris Carter for the creation of the X-files :)
I dont distinctly remember the movie but I do the series ...darrin Mcgavin right? I loved the show and the cheesy sfx didnt bother me too much, cuz I was a kid at the time :)
Someone
18-08-2004, 06:56 PM
I dont distinctly remember the movie but I do the series ...darrin Mcgavin right? I loved the show and the cheesy sfx didnt bother me too much, cuz I was a kid at the time :)
Darrin Mcgavin, yep. He also had a few appearances on the x-files since Chris Carter was a such a fan (at least one appearance anyway).
The first movie is called "The Night Stalker" (about a vampire) while the second was called "THe Night Strangler" (about a guy who has to kill certain amount of people every 21 years to keep his fountain of youth formula working). They're on DVD...both on the same disk. A lot of fans pushing for the entire couple years of the show to be put on DVD also.
Yeah as an adult the sfx are really bad *but incredibly fun* and as a kid ya just don't notice things like that.
Also...side note. There has been the rumor for a while of a big budget movie based on Kolchak. Unless is has the cheese factor I 'm not sure I could watch it lol.
CptStern
18-08-2004, 07:34 PM
damn what's wrong with revisionist hollywood?, must they remake every classic tv show? They usually suck anyways
Sprafa
18-08-2004, 08:06 PM
damn what's wrong with revisionist hollywood?, must they remake every classic tv show? They usually suck anyways
But sometimes they rock, and that pays back for all the ones that sucked.
CptStern
18-08-2004, 08:28 PM
But sometimes they rock, and that pays back for all the ones that sucked.
I cant think of one that was good
Gorgon
18-08-2004, 08:51 PM
I may get bored of gaming by the time I'm 25 (Probably not :D) but I don't think someone should quite because of their age...thats just a poor attitude really. Imagine when you are older being told by some kid you can't do something because you are too old. :|
Yeah I agree to what you say. ;)
Age is not the main reason for quitting games. I'm 21 years old and if the thread starter stated that the average is 25 then I have 4 years left and that suks, cause There are many I mean 10th of Excellent games coming in the near future example UE3.0 or more advanced. I don't want to miss these games cause of my age. NO WAY that won't happen.
John carmack stated by 2011 games will be just like movie's graphics and I ll be close to 30; Do you want to miss playing games with movie's graphics? Basically NO.......... ;)
RotorHead
18-08-2004, 09:19 PM
i'm 52 and I still love playing ................ :eek:
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.