Noobified CS?

[Moejoe]

Ok, i was watching that new german CS:S video, and i noticed something. You know CS_Italy? When you go forward and right, in the original CS from the CT spawn point, there is a way to hop up onto boxes and jump into a house window thingy.

Now, in CS_Italy on Source, they changed the boxes to STAIRS! (well, actually they were firewood, stacked in such a way to work like stairs.) This totally noobifies the game, now you don't have to hop into the window.

So this raises the question...if they are willing to change something that 'big,' would they change all the boxes and built in geometry in all the levels to real physically simulated boxes? would they make wooden doors breakable?

I'm all for having the original geometry in CS to be changed into phsycially simulated objects, even though it could dramatically alter the layout of a level. If you want the original, go play CS...

Thoughts?

[Shuzer]

Dude, if you haven't noticed, they've been making maps more and more n00b friendly ever update. Have you played any cz maps? All the hard to get to spots have pretty much been made accessible by anyone =/

[^Ben]

How does it newbify the game?

You could get up there with boxes and you can with "stairs" now? What's the difference.

[Gunner]

Thoughts?

Yeah they "noobified" the game but it's still fun so what?

[Moejoe]

most of the point of this thread was to question whether the actual boxes that make up the geometry of the original CS maps would be physically simulated. A lot of people think that it shouldn't, because the boxes in question made up a lot of the level's layout. If they were to move, then things would change drastically.

So if they are willing to change boxes to stairs, would they change other boxes that were built into the level into physically simulated boxes?

[Shuzer]

How does it newbify the game?

You could get up there with boxes and you can with "stairs" now? What's the difference.

It completely changes the pace. They're making it easier and easier for the CTs to get into the apartment without hesitation (first they added the window border so you no longer have to jump from box to window), now they're making it a ramp? :(



So if they are willing to change boxes to stairs, would they change other boxes that were built into the level into physically simulated boxes?

I really hope so, I'd absolutely love to sabotage paths.. that'd be insanely fun :)

[Gunner]

Doesn't really matter does it? I mean half the CTs that go up there will stop and camp in the last room before the exit.

[Shuzer]

Doesn't really matter does it? I mean half the CTs that go up there will stop and camp in the last room before the exit.

Perhaps. I dunno, I don't really care, pubbing is insanely easy as is, I'm all for other people having the advantage, makes it more interesting to me :)

[Whezzy]

They Did that becuase everyone would just move the boxes around

[Shuzer]

They Did that becuase everyone would just move the boxes around

It's not like the boxes would have to be movable

[DanceMag]

firstly, you cant talk about 'n00bifiying' cs, when ur talking about cs_italy. if you think changes in cs_italy mean anything, go die. but i do think its crap that they are making it easier to access places. For instance on dust2, there are a number of boosts that are very good places, but require skill and teamwork to get into (such as 'cpl' boost in bombspot A, and boosting at short as ct onto the boxes). what do you mean by "physically simulated" do you mean that we pretend they are there by feeling carefully placed items on our desktop, or do you mean 'virtually' physically simulated? i think cs is going down the pan. The only way it can be saved is if Valve do something decent with cs:s and maybe remove riot shield, keep a few map 'expoits' and stop f***ing about with the weapons. But the main thing of course is keeping the game style, and keeping the maps relatively simple.
i will be bloody annoyed if they decide to make maps perfect (ie. remove all bugs) and add thousands of moveable boxes which will create even more bugs. Leave it as it is, improve graphics, and ofc keep the game we love. One more thing i need to add, is the fps factor. As Half life is 7 years old itself, and is running off the quake engine, which means its running on a very old engine, one that required a 75mghz computer, and 8mb ram in DOS. So basically fps is pretty shoddy in CS, to such an extent where even Radeon 9800's suffer fps drops, which definetly shouldn't be happening. If they manage to fix this, and they should as it is about a LOT newer, i will be one happy bunny. Peace out homos.

[Shuzer]

Dance, paragraphs man, paragraphs. Physically simulated = moveable objects = not static.

CS maps don't mean anything, except for the little fun and skill left involved in pubbing. DE maps have been mostly untouched lately, that's not to say they haven't done some stuff I don't agree with (no more vines in cbble makes me a sad panda ;(), but they're making pubbing more n00b friendly, which saddens me. I don't play in clans anymore, simply because I got sick of the elitest attitude most of the clanners put forth. I'm sure this isn't as much a problem past cal-im, but my clan crapped out at that point anyway. Point is, leave the CS maps alone.. they're a fun break from bombing maps.

As for the FPS drops, I think they're warranted considering all the enhancements put on an engine that wasn't really supposed to be capable of half of what it is capable of (completely exaggerated figure). I myself have a Radeon 9700, and while the FPS sucks on some maps (aztec), it's fine on others. I do agree CS used to run better, but it's not a huge deal. It just left a few people out, as the requirements have gone up alot.

Now, as for your FPS statements at the end of your post, are you referring to the HL1 engine, or the Source engine? If you're worried about crap FPS in Source, and you're having crap FPS on the HL engine, I think you're in for a doosy.

[Letters]

I say good... that window was a little tricky to get into sometimes and made me weep. ;(

[Shuzer]

I say good... that window was a little tricky to get into sometimes and made me weep. ;(

Poor letters.. this should cheer you up :)

/me walks away whistling

[Dr. Freeman]

Poor letters.. this should cheer you up :)

* Shuzer walks away whistling

and the CS junkie has spoken :) :laugh:
seriously tho.. i am kinda pissed as well that they are "noobfying" the maps.. its like it means nothing for those players who actually took the time to learn some of these tricks of the game :|

i hope Valve read this thread... :frown:

[Cole]

lets hope the newbs are soo newbish they dontk now about Cs:S and wont follow us to it.

[Gunner]

lets hope the newbs are soo newbish they dontk now about Cs:S and wont follow us to it.

Somehow I doubt it.

[pk1209]

got a raging hangover, so excuse if im missing the point of this. But let's say they had boxes to jump into the italy window... wouldn't it be possible to grenade them or shoot them away, thus making the window useless... routes like that need to be kep intact to ensure fair gameplay. cs:s should also be great for finding new spots, roll a barrel ober here, jump up there, use this bos the get over here etc etc... gonna be great... and to sum up.. italy is shit, i wish they canned it....

[Vidrio]

lol does it really matter? .... I dont think u ever had to learn to jump in the window on italy... u must have been... crippled in cs tbh ;p

quite frankly I dont care... just - 1 jump for me

[RedBadger]

Meh,

I say its a new game... let them make the changes. If you can CS, go play CS... if you want to play a new kind of CS, play CS:S.

BTW: I get a constant 100FPS in CS at 1024x768 with full AA/AF....

[blackeye]

lets hope the newbs are soo newbish they dontk now about Cs:S and wont follow us to it.
They all know already. The noobs at my school who talk about counterstrike all day (yes there isnt a single person who doesnt play) are saving up to buy new graphics cards because they all have integrated. Kind stupid actually. Theyre all buying x800 xt's for there 2.6ghz p4s. They wont even notice a difference though between a x800pro and an xt with that POS cpu. A 9800 pro would be enough for cs:s. I hope their to poor to afford them because im tired of hearing how they got 5 deagle head shots in a row last night and their 3:1 ratio that we all know is BS. And then the ones that suck just hack and I sure as hell dont want any ****ing hackers in cs:s because as soon as I find a single hacker im not playing and ill spend my money some where else. So valves anticheat system better be good and they better fix italy so you have to work to master the game instead of being a pro the first day you have it. I have had cs for over 2 years now and I still havent found all the tricks in the game and yet it play it more then any other mod I have downloaded. Hopefully there wont be any noobs in team fortress source. All the people at school that played TFC said it sucks. Maybee they wont play TF and then I can play with some skilled people for a change.

[pk1209]

a 2.6 ghz p4 is a piece of shit? if they had any sense they would wait for the cards in winter.. those will be proper next gen card, new chip etc.

[Shuzer]

a 2.6 ghz p4 is a piece of shit? if they had any sense they would wait for the cards in winter.. those will be proper next gen card, new chip etc.

A 2.6GHz P4 is indeed a POS if you're trying to run an X800 XT.

[genocide604]

I cant wait to see what 747 looks like in cs:s with physics and new graphics.. i love that lvl.

[Gunner]

Blablabla

What a load of rubbish. Someone smack some sense into this guy.

[Shuzer]

What a load of rubbish. Someone smack some sense into this guy.

What's so rubbish about his post?

[PvtRyan]

Why the hell do people treat CS:S like CS 1.7? It's not an update, it's a new game, there are no guarantees for anything that it will or won't be changed.

All your bitching about changes.... please shut up.
Of course there are major changes in the game, and different from 1.6, since it's not an update of it.


'OMG teh crate in dust m0v3d!!~1! my lif3 si teh riunedd!!1~!!'

Stupid cs elitists.

[Shuzer]

Why the hell do people treat CS:S like CS 1.7? It's not an update, it's a new game, there are no guarantees for anything that it will or won't be changed.

All your bitching about changes.... please shut up.
Of course there are major changes in the game, and different from 1.6, since it's not an update of it.


'OMG teh crate in dust m0v3d!!~1! my lif3 si teh riunedd!!1~!!'

Stupid cs elitists.

Well, considering CS:S is a PORT OF COUNTER-STRIKE, I fail to see your logic. It's not a new game, it's supposed to be much of the same. The point is, they've been continually making CS easier and easier for newbies.. which I and many others can't understand

How many remember the days where bombsites had no lettering? Now on maps such as piranesi, chateau, etc.. there are signs EVERYWHERE saying "A -->" "B /\"


Don't get my wrong, I love CS, even if it's not the game it once was.. but, why must they continue to make maps less complex? Is it THAT hard to make people jump up on two crates and then jump into a window?

[RogueShadow]

:) Next thier going to change the window in de_prodigy near T spawn and make it bigger so everybody can go through it fast.

[BRODIEMAN2k4]

It'd be funny if the firewood stair thing can collapse

[BHC]

/me kicks dell 2.4 pentium.. get better damnit! upgrade yourself! :cheese:

[Fatality_]

BTW: I get a constant 100FPS in CS at 1024x768 with full AA/AF....

wow! /sarcasm

[Baal]

Yea...honestly, so what.

CS isn't a tough game to run anymore.

Anyways, they've noobifying the game since 1.3 (although I loved 1.3)

Taking away things like the jumping into the window on Italy isn't a big deal...I'm more worried about them taking away things like awp quick-switch, jumping and shooting, abilitity to use skill as an advantage.

[Fallout]

Is this a surprise to anyone? Since the later betas, CS has been made easier for crappy players. The game pace has been slowed down, jumping has been changed, recoil increased, and the AWP changed in many ways including the recent delay that was added.

I sincerely think CS2 will just be Battlefield 1942 in an urban setting. Guns will be even more random than they are now, the AWP won't be as dominating as it is now in the right hands, vehicles will be the focus of many of the maps, and spam guns will be made much more useful.

Valve has realized that by offering gameplay that allows poor gamers a good chance they can interest many people who felt CS was too hard despite being laughably random much of the time. They are trying to interest the Battlefield 1942 audience, as from the sales of CS:CZ it's clear CS is popular because it was free. A retail CS game isn't going to interest even a fraction as many people as a retail Battlefield game will.

[un0x]

So its OmG 1337!!11 to get in there using the boxes? :p Both ways are very easy and the new way looks prettier so i think thats why they did it

btw, talking bout 'noobs', cs_italy is not a very OmG 1337!!11 map right? ;)

[disruptioN_]

:) Next thier going to change the window in de_prodigy near T spawn and make it bigger so everybody can go through it fast.
That window used to annoy me all the time. :frown:

Anyway I hope they make the eagle killable in de_survivor. That thing just needs to die...

[Gunner]

And then the ones that suck just hack and I sure as hell dont want any ****ing hackers in cs:s because as soon as I find a single hacker im not playing and ill spend my money some where else.

Good riddance.

Shuzer this is the type of guy who thinks he's a pro player when he plays on public servers. He's saying '"noobs" shouldn't play CS with him, because they don't deserve to apparently.

Blackeye you're the noob here.

[Gunner]

And has it ever occured to any of you that, they changed the access to the balcony for a specific reason? they needed to give the CTs the advantage on that route. Italy is a T sided map you can't deny it, if you do then you're an idiot. This is a tweak to help CTs get in the house faster that's all.

[Shuzer]

And has it ever occured to any of you that, they changed the access to the balcony for a specific reason? they needed to give the CTs the advantage on that route. Italy is a T sided map you can't deny it, if you do then you're an idiot. This is a tweak to help CTs get in the house faster that's all.

The only reason italy is such a T dominant map is because everyone picks T on cs maps.. if they all did auto team select, it'd be much more balanced. On a server that has alot of experienced players, I often see CTs winning as many rounds as the Ts

In other news, those logs look *really* awesome stacked up regardless :) lol

[Gunner]

if they all did auto team select, it'd be much more balanced.

You're asking for the impossible lol!

Great pic by the way.