Vortigaunt Motivation *Possible Spoilers*

[thirty9th]

Well, after searching a few forums for similar topics, I have decided to open a discussion regarding the Rebels' supposed friends, the Vortigaunts and their whereabouts.

Really, what I've been wondering lately is this: Can the Vortigaunts really be happy working for the Rebel faction as cooks, janitors and menial servants? Cruise through HL2, Ep 1 and Ep 2, and you will see, in Rebel bases, Vortigaunts working as nothing more than slaves. True, some are in elevated positions as laboratory assistants, but some are even stuck in the power plant of Black Mesa East powering generators.

My question is this: Why should the Vortigaunt race continue to remain allied to the Rebels when they are treated this way? Talk to the "All-knowing Vortigaunt" in HL2; he will tell the player that the Vortigaunts still hold a grudge, especially against Gordon, for killing their brethren. My theory for Ep 3 is that Vortigaunts will no longer remain loyal to the Rebel faction.

Agreements or dissents?

(If anyone knows of a similar topic to this one, please point me to it.)

[Headcrab Pie]

Hmmm.

Well, look at it this way, you say they're stuck powering generators. But it seems that they could supply the most effecint (or easy to get) way to get power. Also, the Vorts are fighting to help overthrow the Combine. And to do that they need to help the rebels. And whats a good way to help? Give them a power supply. They're just doing a job. Also, are you sure those are power generators? I read somewhere that they were training.

Second, we have seen very little of how vorts are treated. What about the Vorigaunt Camp? (HL2-Sandtraps) They are the only ones who can get the "Bugbait".

3rd, you say thay are nothing more than slaves. But what about their condition is any different that how all the humans are treated. Similar living conditions and such.

4th, why help the Rebels? Look at how the Combine treats them. You claim they're treated like Slaves to the Rebels, but look at the Vort at the Station. Sweeping. And what about the Vort tourture chamber in Nova Prospect.

5th, the Vorts relize that Gordon did what he had to do.

Welcome to the Forum.

-Headcrab Pie

[hl_grunt]

Really, what I've been wondering lately is this: Can the Vortigaunts really be happy working for the Rebel faction as cooks, janitors and menial servants?

Choice A) stay outside, unprotected, where all the striders, gunships, dropships, zombies, eyehounds, bullsquisds and every other imaginable terror is.

Choice B) stay inside, protected by rebels, doing nice cooking/sweeping jobs, with a minimal risk of receiving a bullet inside your brain. Plus, those very rebels whom vortigaunts "serve" will lay down their lives should combine attack.


Really, if you had a choice between dragging your ass for miles every day looking for supplies, out in the cold, shot at by combine soldiers and then eventually getting impaled on a striders leg... And then a choice of cooking a nice tasty meal in a warm kitchen, protected by nice thick layers of reinforced concrete, with no bullets or explosions...

[Tenebrais]

I think vortigaunts are naturally subservient - every time we've seen them they've been slaves to some power or other. The rebels give them freedom, I'm sure, but I suspect they willingly perform the menial jobs because it's in their nature.

[Druckles]

They're not being any more subservient than humans are. I'm pretty sure there are humans out there that are still cooking and sweeping. I don't suppose they'll be powering generators, because they can't.

Plus they owe me. I saved their butts in Half-Life.

[Tenebrais]

Have you ever seen any humans cooking or sweeping? At least if there's a vortigaunt around. I don't think I've never seen any that aren't trying to aid someone in some way, and the only time I've seen a vortigaunt make a decision was when there were four of them together.

Though you do raise the point that vortigaunts may feel they owe a debt to humanity for freeing them from the nihilanth and (for the rebel ones) the combine.

[Apocalypse89]

I never got the impression that the Vorts were "subservient" to the humans...from what I can tell it seems like they're voluntarily cooperating.

[thirty9th]

Have you ever seen any humans cooking or sweeping? At least if there's a vortigaunt around. I don't think I've never seen any that aren't trying to aid someone in some way, and the only time I've seen a vortigaunt make a decision was when there were four of them together.

Though you do raise the point that vortigaunts may feel they owe a debt to humanity for freeing them from the nihilanth and (for the rebel ones) the combine.

Aye, that's what I'm trying to highlight in this topic is the dichotomy between their debt to Gordon for destroying the Nihilanth and their regret towards him for killing their kin. The All-knowing Vortiguant goes over this quite a bit and makes quite a point that the Vortiguants are torn between the two emotions.

Also, think of this: Aside from the torture and experimentation (which happened to the humans also, mind you), is the Vortigaunt position among the Rebels really all that different from that under the Combine?

One of the images that got me thinking about this was in the train station in HL2, where you see a Vortigaunt rather forlornly sweeping the floor behind a chain link fence. Compare that to the Rebel base in Black Mesa East, where a Vortiguant is forlornly sweeping the floor behind a chain link fence... Not sure if this means anything, but do you think that Valve might be trying to make a comparison here?

I'm pretty sure there are humans out there that are still cooking and sweeping.

But you never see them because the Vortigaunts occupy most of these positions. Going down the elevator in BME, if I remember correctly, I didn't see any humans performing these tasks other than a human supervising the Vortigaunts in the power generator hall.

[Combine_Advisor]

That would seem half life-ish ... I think it is a possibilty

[Mech Man]

You do raise good points , but you are also missing crucial points about how humans treat them in a good way too. They get to play games with humans (you see one playing chess with a human in BME) , they watch TV together (the boxcar dude and in a random corner of the elevator in BME) and most importantly forming close friendships with humans for example : the boxcar guy again , and the vort camp and even Griggs , Sheckly and the other vorts (even though they seemed to know each other they didnt seem to be very close , yet the humans seemed to like the vorts enough to try and imitate them)

[thirty9th]

You do raise good points , but you are also missing crucial points about how humans treat them in a good way too. They get to play games with humans (you see one playing chess with a human in BME) , they watch TV together (the boxcar dude and in a random corner of the elevator in BME) and most importantly forming close friendships with humans for example : the boxcar guy again , and the vort camp and even Griggs , Sheckly and the other vorts (even though they seemed to know each other they didnt seem to be very close , yet the humans seemed to like the vorts enough to try and imitate them)

Valid argument, Mech.

But, if you didn't read it already, I'd like to direct the attention of the thread to the bolded portion of my post before this, regarding the likeness between Combine and Rebel camps. It would seem to be a similie that Valve would use to insinuate something, no?

[Mech Man]

Oh yes , I do understand what you mean , I just think the friendship part plays a larger role. But you do seem to be onto something. I somewhat doubt the vorts will revolt just because they cook , clean etc. Maybe they will have a word with resistance leaders about it or something but nothing major.

[Oreolek]

In Ep1,there was a rebel who said "They don't taste like crabs" and there was no Vort nearby.
Vorts know HOW to cook and people can learn.Maybe that man in HL2 elevator was not supervising,but looking at their work.Maybe he was an assistant.

[Druckles]

Valid argument, Mech.

But, if you didn't read it already, I'd like to direct the attention of the thread to the bolded portion of my post before this, regarding the likeness between Combine and Rebel camps. It would seem to be a similie that Valve would use to insinuate something, no?

From what I gather from this thread you appear to be relating the entire workings of the rebel and vortigaunt alliance from a little trip down an elevator. If the vortigaunts really were being oppressed and Valve wanted you to know this, you'd notice it quite clearly. Quite the opposite seems the case, however, particularly in Episode Two where you get the impression that the Vortigaunts and humans are working incredibly closely. This is evidenced with Griggs and Sheckley. Humans and Vortigaunts wouldn't fight side by side like that if one side were being oppressed. Furthermore, the awe and respect in their voices indicated they considered the Vortigaunts to be superior if anything. Another location you get the impression that they really are an alliance is in the White Forest base where the Vortigaunt Uriah works closely with Magnusson.

As to the Vortigaunt sweeping at the train station and Black Mesa East, it's easily explained by Valve simply reusing the model. Simple as. If you were to look at Half-Life 2 directly, you'd notice on the way to Black Mesa East there are several Vortigaunts who don't appear to be subservient, such as the Vortigaunt who attaches the tau cannon to your airboat. We didn't actually see that many humans in Black Mesa East and someone has to do the job. Maybe Vortigaunts are superior at cooking!

I don't think there's enough evidence to suggest they're slaves. Quite the contrary, I think there's more evidence to suggest they're strong allies. Particularly compared to how we see them in Half-Life.

[wrongworld]

the Vortigaunt near black mesa east says this and more. kinda says that they aint slaves, that they join together as allies.

We cannot forget those whose cords you cut.
Forgiveness is not ours to bestow. Unity of purpose, the shattering of common shackles, a single road we tread.
Your song we sing and shall sing for eternity. No matter the consequences of this struggle.
You have brought us grief and jubilation beyond measure.
With you beside us, a talisman of victory, the day of freedom draws nigh.
Your bright face obscures your darker mask.
We call you sib, although your mind and meaning are a mystery to us.
Far distant eyes look out through yours. Something secret steers us both.
We shall not name it. We have endured these chafing bonds for eons, yet a single moment of further servitude seems intolerable!
How often have we slipped our yoke, only to find it choking us again.
Let this war end in either total victory or our extinction.
No further compromise shall we allow.
We take our stand beside you, here, upon this miserable rock.

[hl_grunt]

As to the Vortigaunt sweeping at the train station and Black Mesa East, it's easily explained by Valve simply reusing the model.

Nope, different models. The one at the combine station has slave collar/cuffs.

Speaking of, rebel vortigaunts don't have them! So there, they're not as oppressed.
Oh, look, a cat. :cat: ... God, I love coffee.

[Tagaziel]

Also, why should they be unhappy about being cooks? They are the only ones that know how to properly cook a headcrab.

[Druckles]

I'd be happy being a cook, if only I could cook.

[Probydoby]

Yeh, I feel sorry for the vortigaunts, cooking in a warm safe place, instead of beeing out there with the headcrabs, zombies, combine etc with the rebels

everyone is just doing what he/she can, if that is shooting stuff, you do that, if it is building a rocket, so be it.

if it is cooking and charging batters, then do that.
We are in a war, against a superior enemy race, there isn't really time to argue about who can do what.

[thirty9th]

I do agree with all of the positive evidence you guys have given for the proper treatment of the Vortiguants, but I think I'll hang on to my theory until Ep 3 rolls around for two reasons.

- In spite of the Vortigaunts' apparent contentment (as you all have shown evidence for), I still think that the comparison of the Vortigaunt sweeping behind a chain link fence in both environments is a scene that Valve meant to show the player.

- If you look back at Page 1 of this thread, somebody posted a log of the All Knowing Vortiguant's sayings. Yes, he does mention that he will stand by Gordon against the Combine, but refer to the beginning of his monologue and you will see that even though they are allied for now, the Vortigaunts cannot forgive the killing of their brothers.

Thanks for the input so far; some compelling arguments have been made. Feel free to keep discussing.

[TugruL]

If Gordon saved my and my brethens arses,I wouldn't mind much about the death ones.

[wrongworld]

I agree Tugrul.
They are a race with great wisdom, he may have killed many of their bretherens -
You have brought us grief and jubilation beyond measure. but he also free them from the Nihilanth.
I dont think they go and seek revenge, a wise man wouldnt hang himself in such thourds, its a blinding feeling, they?ll lose them selves, they are smarter then that-
Your song we sing and shall sing for eternity.
and they truly admire The Freeman, they think highly of him.

[thirty9th]

I was playing through Episode 2 recently for I dunno, maybe the eighth time, and I finally payed attention to the Gman's speech when Alyx is being healed by the Vortigaunts. (Quoted as closely as I can remember)

They didn't always care for Ms. Vance; There was a time when the only memory they had of humanity was a crowbar coming at them down a steel corridor

Now why would Valve feel the need to put that in there?

Thoughts or comments?

[KineticAesthetic]

I'd say just to explain the current connection between Alyx and the Vorts, and how only after their liberation and contact with the resistance have they met Alyx/Eli/everyone.

And I think the crowbar corridor quote is simply a reference to Half Life, and again a bit of exposition on the Vortigaunt's initial contact with man.

[Que-Ever]

Maybe most vorts are actually pretty dumb, and can't do much more than sweep.

Or maybe they just get smarter the more of them are together. They are a hive mind. Like, you get thirteen of them all together in one room and they meld into one really... fat vortigaunt.

[thirty9th]

I'd say just to explain the current connection between Alyx and the Vorts, and how only after their liberation and contact with the resistance have they met Alyx/Eli/everyone.

And I think the crowbar corridor quote is simply a reference to Half Life, and again a bit of exposition on the Vortigaunt's initial contact with man.

Partial agreement with you, but why would Gman bring to light the negative aspects of the relationship between Gordon and the Vortigaunts and not any of the positive things?

[KineticAesthetic]

Partial agreement with you, but why would Gman bring to light the negative aspects of the relationship between Gordon and the Vortigaunts and not any of the positive things?

Erm, I guess, but once again he's talking about the contact period, and, at the time when the Vorts cared nothing for Ms. Vance, the only knowledge they had of man was, in fact, a crowbar.

Mushing up those hive mind bitches. You killed my scientist buddies.

Etc.

[thirty9th]

Ugh. Don't you hate it when you have to wait 1 to 15 years for a game to come out so you can prove or anull a theory?

I don't believe Valve would shed light onto all of these comparisons without some reason...

Even so, we'll just have to wait until Ep 3, now won't we...? .... :dozey:...:|

...
:hmph:
...



... :dork:

[ríomhaire]

The g-man's comment on the crowbar has multiple interpretations. It could be an attempt to remind Gordon of his first experiences with them, perhaps to make him trust them less. It could also just be a throw-away comment and him just trying to be clever. It could also be emphasising the how the Vortigaunts and humanity have come together. It could even be an attempt to make Gordon feel guilty for giving the creatures such an unfriendly welcome. It is not insignificant that Alyx is the daughter of the first man to collaborate with the Vortigaunts and Gordon is the human who has brought them the most death.

[thirty9th]

The g-man's comment on the crowbar has multiple interpretations. It could be an attempt to remind Gordon of his first experiences with them, perhaps to make him trust them less. It could also just be a throw-away comment and him just trying to be clever. It could also be emphasising the how the Vortigaunts and humanity have come together. It could even be an attempt to make Gordon feel guilty for giving the creatures such an unfriendly welcome. It is not insignificant that Alyx is the daughter of the first man to collaborate with the Vortigaunts and Gordon is the human who has brought them the most death.

Well said.

[TugruL]

The g-man's comment on the crowbar has multiple interpretations. It could be an attempt to remind Gordon of his first experiences with them, perhaps to make him trust them less. It could also just be a throw-away comment and him just trying to be clever. It could also be emphasising the how the Vortigaunts and humanity have come together. It could even be an attempt to make Gordon feel guilty for giving the creatures such an unfriendly welcome. It is not insignificant that Alyx is the daughter of the first man to collaborate with the Vortigaunts and Gordon is the human who has brought them the most death.

This one.

[Mech Man]

you get thirteen of them all together in one room and they meld into one really... fat vortigaunt.

I have a temptation to go fatten up a vort in gmod now :p

[thirty9th]

New piece of evidence for my theory:

At the camp in Sandtraps just after you acquire the bugbait, notice the Vortigaunts conversing under the awning. (Quoted as I remember)

Our apologies Freeman, it is impolite for us to converse by flux shift in front of those whose vortal inputs are impaired. Thus, we will converse in normal speak, unless of course we wish to say unflattering things about you.

Other: Just so.

And so they begin conversing in flux whatever again.

Comments or thoughts?

[ZT]

I would seriously cry if the Vorts turned against me, I've learned to love them a lot, especially after Ep. 2.

[hl_grunt]

I would seriously cry if the Vorts turned against me, I've learned to love them a lot, especially after Ep. 2.

:O:|:hmph:

*typing*

Dear gabe, I feel like half life 2 is really missing out with the lack of hostile vortigaunts, in fact, so much so that blah blah blah

[Van Kayne]

Just throwing this in for consideration:
We know Vortigaunts are "coterminous" creatures. At the lowest level, they share thoughts telepatically, from what Alyx says when 'gaunts get captured and send out images of Nova Prospekt. I assume this means that what one thinks, all thinks. What one knows, all know. What one sees, all see.

This could make for a very different outlook on life than what humans have. Think about it: You could devote your entire life to sweeping, or cooking, or reading the most dull, abstract theoretical physics papers, and still have the excitement, glory and action of a freedom fighter on the front lines so long as even one Vortigaunt did so.

Also, they might wish to voluntarily take vital (power supply) or non-vital (sweeping) tasks as a way of repaying humanity for being forced to kill humans at Black Mesa. I pose the question: what else could they do to repay humanity, besides whatever the humans need? Or perhaps they recognize that the best chance to overthrow the Combine is to join up and offer whatever help they can give to the rebels.

And the crowbar quote...when I played, I felt that they were really the victims, but that they were civilized enough,that even though they were at war with us and were victims of our brutality, they were intelligent and forgiving enough that they were able to unite with us in the end. How many human nations in the world would willingly forgive another nation that attacked them?

Hope I haven't messed up anything.

[Druckles]

I would seriously cry if the Vorts turned against me, I've learned to love them a lot, especially after Ep. 2.

It would be a helluva lot cooler, though.

I half expected them to, though, the first time I played Half-Life 2.

[thirty9th]

Well said, Kayne. And I do believe that Valve wants us to feel a kinship with the Vortigaunts at this stage in the series, but why put all of these 'hints' into the storyline? (Refer to my above post on this page and give me your thoughts on it) Unless I'm just looking into this too much...

[Vaun]

When humans win, if the vorts go back to being antlion farmers (as stated in ep2 , working in "antlion husbandry") then thats the last earth will probably see of them, or theyll remain on earth with all the rights and freedoms as anyone else. For jobs though, theyll probably work in "power plants" using their energy powers to power homes, buisnesses, etc...

[Van Kayne]

Well said, Kayne. And I do believe that Valve wants us to feel a kinship with the Vortigaunts at this stage in the series, but why put all of these 'hints' into the storyline? (Refer to my above post on this page and give me your thoughts on it) Unless I'm just looking into this too much...

Well, I always assumed that was just Valve being funny. I think the Vortigaunts are kinda like how Chewbacca was used in the Star Wars movies (the original ones) as kind of a humorous way of thinking about the world. Or the coversing in flux shift could be more innocent, maybe they were just talking about his appearance. After all, an orange HEV suit doesn't look too flattering on *anyone*. Except maybe Dr Gina Cross ;).

I think the Vorts would stick around on Earth even when the Combine is defeated, because I doubt the antlions will leave when the Combine do, so the Vort's will hang around and herd the remaining antlions.

[Vaun]

Ya, by the way, didnt killing the Ancient Guardian kill all the antlion eggs or something? thats a lot less npcs to kill...

Well, all the eggs in that hive.

[thirty9th]

Yes, that hive. There surely many more hives around the world by now.

[Mech Man]

Yeah , there are going to be hundreds of hives , the one we were in wasnt even that big , i bet they could get much bigger than that.

[Vaun]

So the only way to kill off all the antlions is killing the ancient guardian(s) of the hive, killing all the future antlions, then just deal with the current ants and thats that, but thats still a huge undertaking... then again, if earth can make use of tanks and such (if theres any left) then it could be a tiny bit easier...

[Mech Man]

That is wrong on so many levels. First of all killing the guardian will kill the larvae but they can just birth more , similar to how ants work. Second of all how do you suppose getting tanks into a series of underground tunnels? And third its most likely impossible to tell how many hives there are , and even if they do some how manage to destroy the hives they know of there will definatly be more that they do not know of , like ones hidden deep underground , or ones hidden behind an immovable object sealing the antlions in.

[elkaebee]

We do a Gears of War:That'll teach 'em.

[crowbared]

i feel sorry for vorgiluauts (<-- how ever thery called) theyr inside the safe kitchen/trainstation/etc. not like outside living in caves being all alone out there with the zombies and combines and striders and rebels in war eating bugbaits .. inside theyr safe...playing cards(if you go explore black mesa east on noclip youll find out) listening to music ,cleaning,washing,cooking,enjoying them selfs....

[ríomhaire]

i feel sorry for vorgiluauts
It's in the ****ing thread title, cowbread.