another proof that games are indeed dumbing down

[jverne]

well yes ok, i just discovered water on room temperature but anyways

http://www.acecombatsix.com/index.php?l=interactive

as far as i can remember flight sims were always the pinnacle of realism and that stuff.

but i admit i don't have alot experience in the ace combat series.

[Gray Fox]

Ace combat has always been arcade.

[jverne]

Ace combat has always been arcade.

that's what i was a bit cautious.

i get the feeling flight sims died off due to their nature (realism,...).

i haven't heard about any new good flight sims lately. last i can remember is some game called modern combat or something (is it from bulebyte?)

[$kelet0r]

the only fighter sims worth their salt are Falcon 4.0 (Allied Force has me addicted), Il2 Sturmovich and Expansions, and Lock on Modern Air Combat (both of which ship with starforce, so a definite no go for me).

Keep an eye out for this though - http://www.fighterops.com/

[Gargantou]

Erm, I'd hardly called Flight Sims dead there's quite a few quality sims coming out, such as DCS: Black Shark, Fighter Ops, the sequel to Il-2 Sturmovik(Called Battle of Britain iirc)

I'm a hardcore simmer myself, own Falcon 3.0 Gold original, and F-117 Stealth Fighter 2.0(From the good ol' early 90s).

Falcon 4.0 is nice too but I stopped playing it after my computer crashed and I lost all my programming for my Saitek X52 HOTAS.:(

If you want a good simmer site, I really recommend SimHQ, it's one of the oldest and greatest ones out there.:)

[sea]

It's true that flight simulators have definitely become a niche genre, when previously they were fairly popular due to their high-quality graphics, full 3D movement, etc. They're probably just too slow for most people these days, though.

[Gargantou]

And too complciated, compare Falcon 4.0 Allied Force to say the original mega-hit flight sims like F-15 Strike Eagle series from MicroProse.

The closer the sims edged to realistic, the less people played'em.

[VictimOfScience]

And too complciated
Yup, I think this is where the problem lies. People are getting dumbed down by the crap they are spoonfed by the mainstream media these days, not to mention public education becoming more and more of a joke every single day (in the US at least). :(

[Gargantou]

I dunno what public education means in the US, but here in Sweden, government owned schools > privately owned schools, privately owned schools over here(I've attended 4 so I have some experience) mostly are alot of talk but no real experience to back it up, they treat us(students) as moneybags, nothing more nothing less.

That's why all schools I'm applying for now are state-owned.:)

[PvtRyan]

Yup, I think this is where the problem lies. People are getting dumbed down by the crap they are spoonfed by the mainstream media these days, not to mention public education becoming more and more of a joke every single day (in the US at least). :(

Right. Or because the vast majority of people don't care for watching gages and radar screens for hours on end. It's stupid to say that games are dumbing down based on the popularity of flight sims (which was never very popular to begin with). I'm not gonna say people are dumbing down based on the lack of quality agriculture sims, which you care as much about as I care about flight sims. Games aren't dumbing down, games are getting easier compared to "classic" games that were ridiculously frustratingly hard just for the sake of being ridiculously frustratingly hard (which, I might add is very bad game design) but not dumber.

In fact, games are far from dumbing down, they've gotten more and more complex, in gameplay and in storytelling. Games are coming close to being accepted as an art form. And you can't measure the intelligence of all games (or gamers for that matter) based on the abundance of lack thereof in a niche genre.

[VictimOfScience]

I dunno what public education means in the US, but here in Sweden, government owned schools > privately owned schools, privately owned schools over here(I've attended 4 so I have some experience) mostly are alot of talk but no real experience to back it up, they treat us(students) as moneybags, nothing more nothing less.

That's why all schools I'm applying for now are state-owned.:)

I mostly mean for the youngsters, so anything before the University level. They are dumbing down tests all over the place to makle teachers and curriculums look more successful. It is a crying shame. It is no wonder the US is falling behind the world in general intelligence of the youth.

As such, kids don't want to think about too much when they game. Hence the crap that has already flooded the marketplace that many of us more clever gamers have to wade through in order to find a gem.

Oh, and real flight sims HAVE to be on PC:

keyboard>gamepad for flight controls.

you can't measure the intelligence of all games (or gamers for that matter) based on the abundance of lack thereof in a niche genre.
Yes I can. Lack of adventure games = not enough people willing to shell out the money to try to wrap their heads around the crazy conundrums that the old-school adventure game developers invented. People are just getting dumber (read: lazier with their brains).

[PvtRyan]

Yes I can. Lack of adventure games = not enough people willing to shell out the money to try to wrap their heads around the crazy conundrums that the old-school adventure game developers invent. People are just getting dumber (read: lazier with their brains).

Oh yeah, old school adventures were just the pinnacle of complexity. You certainly need a lot of intelligence to randomly combine all the items in your inventory randomly with all items in the area only to find out two hours later that you were supposed to use the block of cheese on the baby pacifier to attract baby mouse that would scare a woman into running against a lightpost knocking out the light so you can get past it unnoticed. :rolleyes:

[Fliko]

They are dumbing down tests all over the place to makle teachers and curriculums look more successful. It is a crying shame.

Very true stuff.

Oh yeah, old school adventures were just the pinnacle of complexity. You certainly need a lot of intelligence to randomly combine all the items in your inventory randomly with all items in the area only to find out two hours later that you were supposed to use the block of cheese on the baby pacifier to attract baby mouse that would scare a woman into running against a lightpost knocking out the light so you can get past it unnoticed. :rolleyes:

The whole fun in the game is finding out the completely unobvious!

[VictimOfScience]

Oh yeah, old school adventures were just the pinnacle of complexity. You certainly need a lot of intelligence to randomly combine all the items in your inventory randomly with all items in the area only to find out two hours later that you were supposed to use the block of cheese on the baby pacifier to attract baby mouse that would scare a woman into running against a lightpost knocking out the light so you can get past it unnoticed. :rolleyes:
Hahaha! Someone sounds a little bitter. If all you were doing is guessing then you totally missed the point of all of those titles.

As much as some games across genres have become more complex, the vast majority have not because casual gaming is where most publishers are looking to invest their bucks. Sad but true.

[Gray Fox]

Oh yeah, old school adventures were just the pinnacle of complexity. You certainly need a lot of intelligence to randomly combine all the items in your inventory randomly with all items in the area only to find out two hours later that you were supposed to use the block of cheese on the baby pacifier to attract baby mouse that would scare a woman into running against a lightpost knocking out the light so you can get past it unnoticed. :rolleyes:

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/6935/flamboyanthomosexualvf6.gif

[Que-Ever]

Oh yeah, old school adventures were just the pinnacle of complexity. You certainly need a lot of intelligence to randomly combine all the items in your inventory randomly with all items in the area only to find out two hours later that you were supposed to use the block of cheese on the baby pacifier to attract baby mouse that would scare a woman into running against a lightpost knocking out the light so you can get past it unnoticed. :rolleyes:

Not to mention pixel hunting.

[VictimOfScience]

Not to mention pixel hunting.
Those were the bad ones. ;)

[Que-Ever]

Those were the bad ones. ;)

Indeed. (http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6117/pixeluv1.png)

[VictimOfScience]

Indeed. (http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6117/pixeluv1.png)
LOL. Yeah, the devs missed the point of those games as well. :P

[PvtRyan]

http://img370.imageshack.us/img370/6935/flamboyanthomosexualvf6.gif

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1989/emotawesomemu4.gif

[Gargantou]

Right. Or because the vast majority of people don't care for watching gages and radar screens for hours on end. It's stupid to say that games are dumbing down based on the popularity of flight sims (which was never very popular to begin with). I'm not gonna say people are dumbing down based on the lack of quality agriculture sims, which you care as much about as I care about flight sims. Games aren't dumbing down, games are getting easier compared to "classic" games that were ridiculously frustratingly hard just for the sake of being ridiculously frustratingly hard (which, I might add is very bad game design) but not dumber.

In fact, games are far from dumbing down, they've gotten more and more complex, in gameplay and in storytelling. Games are coming close to being accepted as an art form. And you can't measure the intelligence of all games (or gamers for that matter) based on the abundance of lack thereof in a niche genre.Flight sims was very popular in the early 90s, get your info straight, it was one of the backbone genres for Microprose whom were at that time one of the best and greatest game devs, F-19 Stealth Fighter, F-117A Stealth Fighter 2.0, F-15 Strike Eagle I, II, III, F-14 Fleet Defender, many WW2 sims, Dynamix(Sierra) made alot of money of their flight sims.

I agree partially with most of the other things you said, just not the "not very popular" because they sold ALOT back in the early to mid 90s.

[jverne]

i wasn't talking just about flight sims, but in general also.

today games are more complex? maybe technically but not that much in gameplay.

i completed morrowind once fully and replayed it a dozen times. i stopped playing oblivion after 2 days.

what bothers me the most is that games nowadays are aimed for the 14 years, so they don't really offer any worthwhile enjoyment for adults. GTA is similar straightforward crap.

HL2 was superb but it was not good as the first. i expected so much creativity for the physics puzzles but they offered challenges that lasted 3 seconds to complete.

civilization 4 is noticeably simplified than the previous installments, it's really a shame.


i lost all hope for games. even my most valued X-com series is probably about to be crapped on.



OH!!!! how could i forget...Fallout 3....now that was a real adult game! now? you'll be happy if a female even suggest selling her service. good bye lesbian action!

[Samon]

Games aren't being “dumbed down”; they are increasing in both sophistication and quality.

[Acepilotf14]

Flight Sim X, pretty much. I like how AC6 worked, it was arcadey, and lots of flying action. Fun.

Also, if you want a complicated game, make it yourself. Complaining isn't going to help.

[<RJMC>]

to be honest is kind of truth that some games are getting dumbed down

though the ace combat series was allways arcadei

but games are really getting like dumbed down,for example the tipical storyline of a action game:you are a soldier-whatever and you are in a battle against something-whatever you get defeated and now you are goin for the REVENGE,even the styles are getting similiars,gritty enviroments,hard boiled characters whit metal armors
though some have diferences but is kind the same exact concept at all