The end of the Source Engine...? [Archive]

Nicky 0123

08-04-2008, 02:31 PM

Will Episode 3 be the end of Valve's amazing Source engine, or do you think they will expand the engine to make it more powerful. Do you think Valve will scrap the current engine and create an entirely new one for the next in the HL franchise. Do you think the new engine will be as good?

Please note, I mean 'be the end' as in official games, obviously mods will be coming out for years to come.

But, what do you think?
!!!SSUCSID

saratos

08-04-2008, 02:37 PM

Why would they scrap it? They are just going to continue adding on.

FishBulb

08-04-2008, 03:42 PM

Source is pretty great as it is. I'd imagine Valve would just keep improving it when needed.

Samon

08-04-2008, 04:49 PM

No, Valve will simply improve the current Engine for HL3.

PimpinPenguin

08-04-2008, 04:59 PM

I don't think Valve could create a new engine, they are just to slow for that, they learned that with HL2. The Source Engine still has a lot of life left in it, it would be pointless to scrap it after Episode 3, especially if they want to continue with episodic releases.

Absinthe

08-04-2008, 05:00 PM

The Source engine will undoubtedly see further longevity, at least for any titles they produce until Half-Life 3. I do wonder though if its upgradeable nature will eventually hit a ceiling and it would just be more practical to make a new one. It's done a wonderful job so far of integrating new features and effects, but I have difficulty imagining HL3 running on it if Valve intends to make another technical leap like they did from GoldSrc. But then we've only witnessed gradual improvements over more frequent releases, so it's difficult for me to imagine how it could all look if they were given a few years to work on it in silence.

DigiQ8

08-04-2008, 05:34 PM

The Source Engine is designed to be highly modular, which makes it easy to add new features, upgrades and modifications without breaking other areas of the engine. So no need to make a new engine.

Przemek

08-04-2008, 05:49 PM

Based on what we've seen already from the engine updates during the last few years, I think Source has a long future ahead. Also, Valve is not id software and they do not need to develop a completely new engine from scratch for each game - that's a waste of time, effort and money (well, maybe not for id). Remember - it's not the engine that makes the game look good or fun to play.

99.vikram

08-04-2008, 06:01 PM

I read
!!!SSUCSID
as
!!!SSUCDIC
and got really offended. That is all.

lord_raken

08-04-2008, 06:13 PM

I think source will be with us for a long time. but is it capable of competing with the newer next-gen engines? for instance in Assassins Creed Altier's robe move very realistically in accordance with his movement. can source do this? is it possible to mod it to match the fire and watter effects of other top end games?

Nicky 0123

08-04-2008, 06:21 PM

Yeh, I also voted Improve the engine. It just seems more sensible to gain the most from it, rather than scrap it after only a few games.

Also, I decided to put the annual DISCUSS backwards...But unfortunately I didnt realise what it actually said...

And some people were offended :(

:|

:laugh:

Narvi

08-04-2008, 06:30 PM

My god, Darkside was right. The same topics... again... and again... and again...

Head for the hills!

Absinthe

08-04-2008, 07:53 PM

The Source Engine is designed to be highly modular, which makes it easy to add new features, upgrades and modifications without breaking other areas of the engine. So no need to make a new engine.

Yes, that's what they say.

But can it in actuality hold up for another 4 or 6 years of gaming? I'm only asking. I'm pretty ignorant to the technicals on these things.

Apocalypse89

08-04-2008, 08:38 PM

After immediately going from Episode Two to regular old HL2, I can already see the difference between current Source and old Source.

I think Source is here to stay.

Iron_cube

08-04-2008, 11:04 PM

The only offending thing in this thread is that fact that valve has not updated HL2 & Ep1 source with the ep2 version, unlike the 360

Justincase3

08-04-2008, 11:21 PM

The Source engine will continue to be used. These episodes were a test to see if such a thing can be done for the Half-Life games. And from the looks of the Orange Box, it certainly can be done and the Source engine with Steam grew a lot with Episodic content and the Orange Box.

Episode Two, Portal, and Team Fortress 2 proved that the Source engine can kick out graphics that seem very beautiful while still running fast and efficiently.

It would be a waste to destroy the Source engine when it has so much potential. Unless Half-Life 3 takes 11 years to make (which it may not since it is possible it will be made through Episodic content), getting rid of the Source engine is pointless.

And Doug Lombardi even mentioned (sorry, I can't say where) that as long as PCs don't undergo very drastic changes within the next few years (I would imagine extremely drastic), they will continue to use the Source engine.

DEATH eVADER

09-04-2008, 09:50 PM

I would like to think that Valve created a seperate tool to create gigantic outdoor areas and vistas that are based around using heightmaps, whereby assets created in Hammer (such as buildings that the player can enter) could be imported to.

It would allow flexibility of the engine as it would appeal to developers who want to make open-ground games without having to worry about selecting individual faces before applying things such as displacements of the mesh.

I think Valves big next step is to make their tools 100% compatible for Vista (the model viewer keeps on crashing before opening)

Humita

09-04-2008, 09:54 PM

Haven't there been several threads about the source engine in the last few weeks? why is everyonoe obsessed with it? It's perfect the way it is, it runs great in every computer (low-en or high-end), and if Valve modifies it will be great as well. Valve has never failed us...

L3N!N

10-04-2008, 12:23 AM

No, I don't think they will start doing anything of that sort until they start developing HL3, which might or might not run on a new Source engine. I'm guessing that if they took the time that they did with HL all the way to HL2 they could either make a new, awesome engine, or add on GREATLY to the current engine.

Iced_Eagle

10-04-2008, 01:27 AM

Source is here for the long haul.

If one area really needs work, Valve just works on it, and bam, it looks "new".

For example, the renderer constantly gets upgraded, so expect some awesome changes for Ep3.

kupocake

10-04-2008, 02:55 AM

Source will be upgraded, but only in the way that the Unreal engine has been continually upgraded... or the original Quake engine was upgraded to make GoldSRC, then Source. They'll strip out what they need to strip out, and at some point, it will have very little in common with the 1st generation Source Engine (or would it be more accurate to say 2nd Generation)?

Pesmerga

10-04-2008, 02:57 AM

I wonder if .bsp is still a valid geometry architecture.

DEATH eVADER

10-04-2008, 01:19 PM

A lot of devs are still using .bsp, but its on its way out

LackingSaint

10-04-2008, 03:05 PM

The only offending thing in this thread is that fact that valve has not updated HL2 & Ep1 source with the ep2 version, unlike the 360

Maybe because that would mean some people wouldn't be able to play it..? I can play HL2 and ep1 easy, but ep2 doesn't work at all for me.

If you just update everything, then why don't we update TF1?

PimpinPenguin

10-04-2008, 04:29 PM

Maybe because that would mean some people wouldn't be able to play it..? I can play HL2 and ep1 easy, but ep2 doesn't work at all for me.

If you just update everything, then why don't we update TF1?

Because TF1 is not on the Source Engine, Valve have already made the HDR maps for HL2 in the console versions, so there is not alot of work needed, simply using the old HL2 maps in the new engine gives you most of the new effects such as the shadowing system. Valve could make this update optional so people like yourself who couldn't play it don't need to get it.

LackingSaint

10-04-2008, 07:03 PM

Because TF1 is not on the Source Engine, Valve have already made the HDR maps for HL2 in the console versions, so there is not alot of work needed, simply using the old HL2 maps in the new engine gives you most of the new effects such as the shadowing system. Valve could make this update optional so people like yourself who couldn't play it don't need to get it.

Well, then.

Let's do that.

99.vikram

10-04-2008, 08:18 PM

LackingSaint

10-04-2008, 09:08 PM

Still, it doesn't really make a difference, I mean it basically looks the same apart from the shadows.

Pesmerga

10-04-2008, 09:48 PM

Woah that's weird because HDR doesn't have anything to do with shadows.

Huh.

LackingSaint

10-04-2008, 09:53 PM

Woah that's weird because HDR doesn't have anything to do with shadows.

Huh.

Sorry for not googling some research before posting, I suppose I should've made a more open example like 'graphics'.

Anyway, the Source engine is perfectly fine, there's really no need to get rid of what is basically a standard for Valve in favour of a new engine, which will basically end up being the same, if not similar.

highlander

10-04-2008, 10:36 PM

They won't ditch it, they'll simply keep adding on. I remember somewhere in a interview, Valve said something along the lines of "We wanted too make the source engine modular"

Operational

11-04-2008, 06:21 AM

I don't think Steam allows 'optional' updates.

Not entirely true
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Half-Life_High_Definition_Content

Crazy_killer

12-04-2008, 01:50 AM

They should use CryENGINE 2

PimpinPenguin

12-04-2008, 02:28 AM

They should use CryENGINE 2

Your joking right,please tell me you are.

Rizzo89

12-04-2008, 03:25 AM

CryENGINE RULES!

Blackthorn

12-04-2008, 03:09 PM

Either these comments are drowning in that always useful, nearly impossible to detect, internet sarcasm, or headcrabs are real.

Source is fantastic. The Orange Box gave everyone a chance to look at Valve's development evolution and they're sure to keep up that momentum. If you're playing Episode 2 and thinking of how a more advanced shader solution could enhance the appearance of walls viewed at an angle under direct light you're as boring as this sentence.

Justincase3

14-04-2008, 02:07 AM

The only large overhauls we will see in the Source engine (something that drastically changes the HL look) would be done in HL3. But it will very likely STILL be the Source engine, just a very changed build. Keeping the Source engine even into HL3 means that eventually Valve can bring all the Source games from HL2 to look like the most recent build of the Source engine. Not much about this is being doen right now, but I can see it happening eventually. Plus, the combination of Source and Steam is wonderful and sometimes I wish other developers started using it as well for their customers who buy boxed versions of the games.

I can see a huge overhaul for HL3 since that will be a drift in story, and probably gameplay since much more time will probably pass between Episode Three and HL3. And a huge new build of the engine for Episode Three will be a little annoying since we are technically still on the Half-Life 2 story, so we want the engine to bear similar graphical structures and looks like found in HL2. I mean, add-on graphical effects and tune-ups are a different story.

AciD

14-04-2008, 10:50 PM

Improve for sure :)

Wanted Bob

14-04-2008, 11:09 PM

Yeah, look how far the Source engine has come in the past years. I would doubt they would ditch it.

DEATH eVADER

11-05-2008, 10:40 PM

CryENGINE RULES!

I use to think so, but then I had an epiphany

Druckles

12-05-2008, 01:24 PM

69 says No.

Source is good.

Zeus

13-05-2008, 09:55 PM

There's no reason for valve to scrap the source engine after ep3. It's a very powerful and highly upgradeable engine. It's obvious that going from Source's original 2004 release to the 2007 Orange box version that it can be continuously upgraded to keep up with the latest standards (HDR, motion blur, dynamic lighting, cinematic physics are some features that were added to the engine over time). Also it took them forever to build Source, so I doubt they'll be willing to let it go so soon. They can just keep it and upgrade the engine for a long time. It's also extremely mod friendly. Look at the quake 3 engine, it was used for a lot of games and lasted for several years, and it was nowhere near as powerful, upgradeable, or mod friendly as source. There's absolutely no reason that Valve should need to build a new engine within the next 5 years (at the very least).