Fallout FPS: Bethesda shows BoS off, rapes logic

[Mikael Grizzly]

http://fallout.bethsoft.com/eng/vault/diaries_diary3-1.09.08.html

Apart from the concept art not looking like Fallout at all (especially the plasma pistol and laser rifle. Fallout ain't steampunk) and the under-armour dress completely contradicting logic and estabilished Powered Armour facts, it doesn't add up.

Why send a military mission (with a seven year old kid to boot) on a cross-country trek through radiation, mutants, miles-wide twisters etc. without any clear objective or target, while the West Coast has more than enough technology to keep you going for years to come?

Then there is the absurd - how exactly did the East Coast communicate with the West Coast, when even the PoseidoNet, estabilished by the Poseidon Oil and used by the Enclave, can't contact any station in the west?

And finally, why include the Brotherhood of Steel and the Supermutants? Is it really THAT hard to come up with something new and unique?

You'd wish as much thought was put into designing the setting and plot as into creating the PIP-Boy (http://fallout.bethsoft.com/eng/vault/diaries_diary2-10.24.07.html).

[Absinthe]

*Aimed shot at Mikael's groin*

[Mikael Grizzly]

Mikael Grizzly was critically hit in the groin for 16 hit points. He mumbles "Mother", as his eyes roll into the back of his head

Ah message window, I will miss thee.

[dekstar]

I was never that deep into the Fallout storylines and background, but it seems there are a few lore flaws according to you. Bethesda said they were huge fans of the Fallout series. Perhaps you could send them an email correcting their faults?

[Narvi]

Clear objective or target? They were looking for the Pentagon.

[StardogChampion]

What's up with that old guy's head in the concept art? It goes back about a mile.

[Krynn72]

Is it really THAT hard to come up with something new and unique?

It is considering no matter what they do that is "new and unique" you and all the other rabid bat-shit insane fallout fans will take a dump over anything they try to do and call it the stupidest idea ever.

[Mikael Grizzly]

It is considering no matter what they do that is "new and unique" you and all the other rabid bat-shit insane fallout fans will take a dump over anything they try to do and call it the stupidest idea ever.

Heh, another idiot not bothering to research the subject.

We would only complain about the lack of aesthetic and orignal gameplay mechanics, but when they take and rape the setting, backstory and lore, it's insult added to injury.

Clear objective or target? They were looking for the Pentagon.

Let me rephrase myself: Sending out a military contingent complete with families, completely disregarding the massive amounts of military ordnance and bases located on and near the west coast, including the Sierra Army Depot VI and others, with absolutely no knowledge if the Washington DC still exists and if anything of value exists there.

I was never that deep into the Fallout storylines and background, but it seems there are a few lore flaws according to you. Bethesda said they were huge fans of the Fallout series. Perhaps you could send them an email correcting their faults?

What do you think we do?

[Narvi]

Er, Fallout isn't steampunk, yes, but that concept art is probably for Brotherhood of Steel hand-made energy weapons, so they should look vaguely cobbled together.

[Krynn72]

BAAAAW

You're all crazies. Everybody knows it. Especially now that its been published in a magazine.

[Mikael Grizzly]

BAAAAW

You're all crazies. Everybody knows it. Especially now that its been published in a magazine.

Which is fun considering that after that article the magazine got exclusive screenshots for publishing.

Er, Fallout isn't steampunk, yes, but that concept art is probably for Brotherhood of Steel hand-made energy weapons, so they should look vaguely cobbled together.

They better be, although this still ignores the fact that the Brotherhood reassembles old tech. Heck, in Fallout 1 they reconstructed a Laser Pistol.

Though I wonder how one cobbles together a plasma forming chamber, a super-conductive barrel and magnetic housing.

[Krynn72]

Which is fun considering that after that article the magazine got exclusive screenshots for publishing.

I dont get what you're trying to say.

[Mikael Grizzly]

I dont get what you're trying to say.

Maybe this will help you:
July 17, 2007: Jeff Green declares Fallout 3 perfectly got the style of the Fallout
franchise down to a T.
July 19, 2007: Jeff Green and others mock the traditionalist Fallout fans on their
podcast.
Sep 28, 2007: Games For Windows publishes "My
Precious", in which they compare Fallout traditionalist fans to Gollum, selectively
quote from the interview they conducted with Brother None, failing to show the
points BN made accurately even though they have two perfect quotes to juxtapose from
Todd and BN.
Nov 21, 2007: Fallout 3 hits the frontpage of Games For Windows. In this
article, Jeff Green (known to be a good friend of Pete Hines), states "Some gamers
(including us) are thrilled by how faithfully Bethesda is preserving the look and
tone of the old games while bringing the franchise into the current millennium,
while others (especially some of the more rabid Fallout fan communities) continue to
deride every new fact, screen, or random piece of info that comes out of Bethesda
about the game. The truth of the matter is no one knows a damn thing yet about
whether the game will be good or not." He says that "[e]verything crucial to the
success of the game (...) is still a huge unknown." Despite the fact that everything
crucial is unknown, people who criticize are "rabid", while "[s]ome gamers
(including us)" are perfectly rational for praising Bethesda's work. Also, the
"continue to deride every new fact, screen, or random piece of info that comes out
of Bethesda about the game" is a lie, as NMA users praised, for instance, the
article Bethesda released about the PIPBoy.
Nov 25, 2007: Games For Windows is revealed to have the scoop, being the first to
get new screenshots of Fallout 3 since Game Informer.

Not to mention Leonard Boyarsky, the father of the Fallout look: "our ex wife [Interplay] had sold our children that she had legal custody of."

[Krynn72]

OOOOOOOOOOOOOH good one! All that shows is that they're being consistent in their opinion on the game and you guys. Magazines get exclusive screenshots every ****ing day. ITS A CONSPIRACY!

[Krynn72]

You give yourselves too much credit. It doesnt matter anyways, because many many more people will love the game for the reasons you hate it.

[Kadayi]

I personally feel that a post-apoc RPG would be a great change from the usual fantasy stuff, however I'd rather Beth created a new game of their own devising rather than try and expand on the existing fallout IP. Don't get me wrong, I hold fallout 1 & 2 in high regard, but the entire fabric/style of the games was built around an isometric turn based system, that really isn't suited for translation into full 3D. Larger than life mutants works in Isometric..in 3D it just looks kind of hackneyed/lame. They might as well be Orcs or Ogres with guns...

[Narvi]

Camp can be fun in 3D.

[Mikael Grizzly]

I personally feel that a post-apoc RPG would be a great change from the usual fantasy stuff, however I'd rather Beth created a new game of their own devising rather than try and expand on the existing fallout IP. Don't get me wrong, I hold fallout 1 & 2 in high regard, but the entire fabric/style of the games was built around an isometric turn based system, that really isn't suited for translation into full 3D. Larger than life mutants works in Isometric..in 3D it just looks kind of hackneyed/lame. They might as well be Orcs or Ogres with guns...

That's one of the points.

[Asuka]

Never played a Fallout game and i cant wait for this. All i know is that it kicks ass!

[Kadayi]

That's one of the points.

It's hard to tell whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me there Mikael. Can you expand your response?

[Nabobalis]

So would it be worthwhile to buy Fallout Collection? Or wait for number 3?

[AHA-Lambda]

Never played a Fallout game and i cant wait for this. All i know is that it kicks ass!

Same here. i haven't played the others as I didn't like the isometri POV as was already mentioned so I am going to just play 3 at this point.

[VictimOfScience]

Hahaha! A Mikael thread bashing Bethesda. Now this is new and unique!

[Mikael Grizzly]

Hahaha! A Mikael thread bashing Bethesda. Now this is new and unique!

I'm not bashing Bethesda, I'm bashing dumb design and plot choices. The same way I "bash" Black Isle for Monty Python encounters in Fallout 2 and uncoherent location design (New Reno, San Francisco and Redding to name a few), as well as making the final boss obligatory to defeat. And real-life weapons (a moronic decision at best). And crappy new sprites. And trash humour at parts. And...

Bethesda's design is atrocious here.

It's hard to tell whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me there Mikael. Can you expand your response?

Full agreement.

Never played a Fallout game and i cant wait for this. All i know is that it kicks ass!

Everything kicks ass for you, even if it's going to be a rock simulator.

So would it be worthwhile to buy Fallout Collection? Or wait for number 3?

If you like well designed games, with an unique setting, complex gameplay and which require more than just two neurons to rub together, then yes.

[AHA-Lambda]

Everything kicks ass for you, even if it's going to be a rock simulator.

Woah controversial. :P

[Kadayi]

Full agreement.

A like minded person in a sea of fanboys. :rolleyes:

I honestly think the game looks appalling and will blow hard:-

http://fallout.bethsoft.com/images/art/fallout3screens/screen05B.jpg

There is nothing remotely redeeming about that picture at all. The interface looks pig ugly and overblown and the super mutant looks like an extra from LoTR. That isn't post-apoc, that's Orcs with guns. They want to do Post-apoc in 3D, they should of looked at Stalker as a starting point for the direction to go in. Gritty Stalker game play, but in a much larger environment (on the scale of something akin to Deep Shadows boiling point for example) and with scattered remnants of civilization dotted through out, and a rich variety of missions would of been a much more intriguing prospect.

[Jintor]

I'm still reserving judgement. I really hope you can at least turn on the message window. :P

[Direwolf]

Hold on, the last good Fallout game was when? At this point I'll just be happy that someone's still trying, and if it rocks it rocks, and if it doesn't then its not a big loss.

[Jintor]

Hold on, the last good Fallout game was when? At this point I'll just be happy that someone's still trying, and if it rocks it rocks, and if it doesn't then its not a big loss.

Some say Fallout Tactics was quite a good game, even if it ignored quite a substantial part of the lore.

[Cheomesh]

I liked Fallout 1, and loved Fallout 2. I was purposely keeping myself away from any FO3 media, as Oblivion was crap, and expected nothing better from FO3...but...damn, if that battle system screen shot does not look awful.

If you want to have it in 3D, some aspects of the battle system have to go. Get rid of the old "aim at X" system, and let the player do it himself. Have an invisible check determine if it hits or not (perhaps via the weapons inevitable and dispiseable cone of fire narrowing as you become more skilled).

[Kyorisu]

If you want to have it in 3D, some aspects of the battle system have to go. Get rid of the old "aim at X" system, and let the player do it himself. Have an invisible check determine if it hits or not (perhaps via the weapons inevitable and dispiseable cone of fire narrowing as you become more skilled).

Lest they piss off a small community of people who in the end really don't matter when it comes to sales numbers.

[Krynn72]

Some say Fallout Tactics was quite a good game, even if it ignored quite a substantial part of the lore.

I played the demo several times and liked it a lot. Could never find the actual game though.

[Jintor]

I think that is a good idea, Cheo.

[Mikael Grizzly]

Lest they piss off a small community of people who in the end really don't matter when it comes to sales numbers.

You still on a crusade?

But I guess you're right, quality content is really not needed nowadays, only hyped-up crap.

[Cheomesh]

I think that is a good idea, Cheo.

Thanks. I do come up with some nice ones here and there.

[Herr Mike]

I played the demo several times and liked it a lot. Could never find the actual game though.

It was fun. It went on a bit too long but that's not really a criticism. There was a lot of game to be played, even if all the Fallout elements went unused.

I find it just as easy to nitpick the hell out of Fallout 2 than Tactics.

Talking Deathclaws?? SUCK!:cat:

[AHA-Lambda]

A like minded person in a sea of fanboys. :rolleyes:

I honestly think the game looks appalling and will blow hard:-

http://fallout.bethsoft.com/images/art/fallout3screens/screen05B.jpg

There is nothing remotely redeeming about that picture at all. The interface looks pig ugly and overblown and the super mutant looks like an extra from LoTR. That isn't post-apoc, that's Orcs with guns. They want to do Post-apoc in 3D, they should of looked at Stalker as a starting point for the direction to go in. Gritty Stalker game play, but in a much larger environment (on the scale of something akin to Deep Shadows boiling point for example) and with scattered remnants of civilization dotted through out, and a rich variety of missions would of been a much more intriguing prospect.

Thanks for the pic. I've not seen that before myself and it just looks weird. :|

[MRG]

Mikael Grizzly was critically hit in the groin for 16 hit points. He mumbles "Mother", as his eyes roll into the back of his head

Ah message window, I will miss thee.

ROFLMAO!

-MRG

[Jintor]

You still on a crusade?

But I guess you're right, quality content is really not needed nowadays, only hyped-up crap.

Look, if it works, it works, and if it doesn't, millions of idiots will buy it anyway. We're screwed no matter how you look at it.

[Kadayi]

Look, if it works, it works, and if it doesn't, millions of idiots will buy it anyway. We're screwed no matter how you look at it.

The point is though, with game development cycles being what they are now, you kind of want people who have the potential to make decent products to not waste time on stuff that isn't going to be all that, at the end of the day. I honestly don't think that after all these years the fallout franchise actually means that much in terms of sales, especially where the game is quite clearly not following in the footsteps of the earlier games. So I don't think it's a given that this game is going to shift like hot cakes. I think once people got past the hype, everyone visibly cooled about Oblivion and I think a lot of people will hold out for the reviews on fallout 3 before making a decision on whether to purchase it.

[Jintor]

The point is though, with game development cycles being what they are now, you kind of want people who have the potential to make decent products to not waste time on stuff that isn't going to be all that, at the end of the day. I honestly don't think that after all these years the fallout franchise actually means that much in terms of sales, especially where the game is quite clearly not following in the footsteps of the earlier games. So I don't think it's a given that this game is going to shift like hot cakes. I think once people got past the hype, everyone visibly cooled about Oblivion and I think a lot of people will hold out for the reviews on fallout 3 before making a decision on whether to purchase it.

Hmmm. You have a point there.

I'm not sure how large the idiot "Oh look guns and apocolypse that looks cool" market is, to be honest, so I was just guessing.

[Wanted Bob]

Hmmm. You have a point there.

I'm not sure how large the idiot "Oh look guns and apocolypse that looks cool" market is, to be honest, so I was just guessing.

How does that make them idiots? Some people have never played a Fallout game before, and media is as scarce as can be right now so its not too bad to get a good first impression from that concept.

[Cheomesh]

Hmmm. You have a point there.

I'm not sure how large the idiot "Oh look guns and apocolypse that looks cool" market is, to be honest, so I was just guessing.

I like that Genre tbh.

[CR0M]

"an advanced version of Radiant AI, America?s First Choice in Human Interaction Simulation. Facial expressions, gestures, unique dialog, and lifelike behavior are brought together with stunning results"

Advanced? You can't polish a turd.

Insta-FailTM

[AHA-Lambda]

Actually is this game going to have oblivion style gameplay and the enemy levelling up with you stuff?

[CptStern]

this game will sell bucketloads ..regardless if the faithful are pleased or not ..in fact I'd argue it'll be successful despite the angry cries of the faithful

[KagePrototype]

Actually is this game going to have oblivion style gameplay and the enemy levelling up with you stuff?

not really:

http://fallout3.wordpress.com/2007/07/14/desslock-explains-level-scaling-on-fallout-3/

Fortunately, Fallout 3 will not use Oblivion?s level-scaling, but contrary to what you may have read elsewhere, scaling isn?t completely discarded.

The first important change is that creatures never scale up in abilities to match your level, so each Deathclaw in F3 will always have the same attributes, regardless of your character?s level when you have the misfortune of encountering it.

Second, each territory in the game is now assigned an encounter level that determines the level and equipment of critters when you discover that area, so a first-level character that wanders into an area designated as ?encounter level 5″ will be badly outmatched by the inhabitants. Loot is also generally scaled to the area?s encounter level, but some item items will be hand-placed, which is similar to how Morrowind handled loot.

An area?s level doesn?t remain static, but it gets locked as soon as you enter it. If you enter a city block designated as a level 5 area, it will remain a level 5 area and never scale up in difficulty. Areas you haven?t yet encountered do ?tether up? in difficulty level, but the tethering level doesn?t linearly scale with your level, so there?s still an advantage to gaining experience levels.

The city block that?s initially designated as a level 5 area will tether up and be designated as a level8 area if you don?t wander into it until you?re a level 15 character. But since an area?s level is locked once you enter it, you?ll still get the satisfaction of returning to a previously difficult area and annihilating its residents once you have a more powerful character.

Bethesda?s still tweaking these systems, but they should make exploration more interesting and not diminish the regard for advancement by making you feel like you can never really get ahead. I?d still prefer a static world like Gothic?s, where encounters are always consistent regardless of your character level, but this toned-down scaling system sounds like a huge improvement over Oblivions.

That blog is actually a great source for Fallout 3 info.

[Kadayi]

this game will sell bucketloads ..regardless if the faithful are pleased or not ..in fact I'd argue it'll be successful despite the angry cries of the faithful

Fantasy & Sci-fi far outweigh Post-apoc in terms of genre popularity, I wouldn't take it as a given at all.

[CptStern]

Fantasy & Sci-fi far outweigh Post-apoc in terms of genre popularity, I wouldn't take it as a given at all.

agreed however this is a big name game from a big name developer ..that alone will sell copies

[Cheomesh]

not really:

http://fallout3.wordpress.com/2007/07/14/desslock-explains-level-scaling-on-fallout-3/



That blog is actually a great source for Fallout 3 info.

Huh...that's an interesting way to do it.

[Kadayi]

agreed however this is a big name game from a big name developer ..that alone will sell copies

But it's not a big name any more, your Average Johnny Highstreet isn't going to be big on fallout at all as it's been so long since the last game. The product is going to stand more on Beths reputation, and Oblivion wasn't that inspiring tbf.

[CptStern]

but it's still a known property ..and bethesda a known developer ..Oblivion didnt sell in the millions because of Elder Scrolls 2 ..sure there's always a fan base but that's the minority

[Mikael Grizzly]

agreed however this is a big name game from a big name developer ..that alone will sell copies

Fallout was never a big name blockbuster.

[CptStern]

so wasnt the Elder scrolls, yet ..

According to NPD sales figures, Bethesda's The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion has become the fastest selling Xbox 360 title to date, in North America. In addition, the PC version accounted for 13% of all Windows games sold during Oblivion's first week of release ? more than four times the percentage of the next best selling game.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/04/10/oblivion-records-record-sales-1-7-million-and-climbing/

[Mikael Grizzly]

so wasnt the Elder scrolls, yet ..



http://www.joystiq.com/2006/04/10/oblivion-records-record-sales-1-7-million-and-climbing/

Uh, Morrowind.

There was no good Fallout game released in the past ten years.

[CptStern]

what were the sales figures for morrowind?


anyways this is an excercise in hair splitting ..suffice it to say it will sell lots of boxes

[Kadayi]

what were the sales figures for morrowind?


anyways this is an excercise in hair splitting ..suffice it to say it will sell lots of boxes

Everyone expected Crysis & UT3 to sell bucketloads as well, and we all know how that turned out.

[CptStern]

perhaps for ut3 but not crysis ..there's not enough uber pcs out there to sell in the millions of copies

besides UT3 lost it's window of opportunity sometime last year

[KagePrototype]

Everyone expected Crysis & UT3 to sell bucketloads as well, and we all know how that turned out.

They were (uber)PC only, Fallout 3's a console game as well.

[Sui]

Monty Python encounters were great ;(

Personally, one the the main reasons I love Fallout 1 and 2 so much is that they never take themselves too seriously. However, one of the reasons for their success is that you can, if you wish, take them very seriously. It's this harmonious juxtaposition of comedy and tragedy, if you will, that make the games so appealing to so many people.

I really don't care what changes Bethdesa make to Fallout 3. I don't care whether they introduce giant bees, make the main antagonist a giant descending foot or alter the lore in profound and disturbing ways. All I care about is that the game is good, and enjoyable.

Of course, I've read many articles which seem to imply that certain aspects of the game will be, put plainly, crap. Such as the dialogue. Which is, like, the best bit.

[Wanted Bob]

I'm tempted to take the implication that since everyone hated Oblivion, and they seem to assume that they are going to mess Fallout 3 up based on that, that I will like Fallout 3 because I actually did like Oblivion.

[Kadayi]

They were (uber)PC only, Fallout 3's a console game as well.

UT was Console as well, and the spec wasn't that high for it on the PC tbh. The main thing is, though it's a well known big selling franchise and had immense amounts of coverage and favourable reviews and yet it tanked embarrassingly.

[Jintor]

Oh, yes, they seriously seriously need better writers than they had for Oblivion. Here's hoping.

[Operational]

There was no good Fallout game released in the past ten years.

I agree with Stern. An average game will sell just fine provided it's a known name.

I've never played a Fallout game (apart from maybe a demo) and yet I clicked on this thread and am about to read wikipedia about it just because I recognised the name.

[Mikael Grizzly]

I agree with Stern. An average game will sell just fine provided it's a known name.

I've never played a Fallout game (apart from maybe a demo) and yet I clicked on this thread and am about to read wikipedia about it just because I recognised the name.

I never played Far Cry, but I recognize Crytek's naming.
I never played FIFA, but I recognize the title.
I never played (insert game name) but I recognize (insert recognition).

Rudimentary gaming knowledge has no bearing on sales.

EDIT: http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showtopic=797865&st=0&p=11597438&#entry11597438

What diffrences do you see between super mutants from fallout 1 and from fallout 3? Or what do you see (what makes them look original, color, eyes or so) that makes them look as they do in Fallout 1?

Gary: Sprites vs 3d models? Large textures? Skeletal physics? The idea wasnt to make them "original" but to stick as close as possible to the Supermutants everyone has learned to love and to bring them to the 3d world. I think we have done a pretty damned good job of it so far and I hope you all agree when we are finished.

He's not even aware that they're doing it wrong.

[Cheomesh]

Yeah, they've a movie in FO2 that shows what the super mutant looks like up close, with Marcus.

[Operational]

I never played Far Cry, but I recognize Crytek's naming.
I never played FIFA, but I recognize the title.
I never played (insert game name) but I recognize (insert recognition).

Rudimentary gaming knowledge has no bearing on sales.

In terms of marketing getting you to recognise a name and what it represents is a large part of the battle it's why sequels and movie tie-ins exist.
If somebody plays FPSs and has heard of FarCry then they are more likely to buy FarCry compared to another FPS that they have never heard of before.

[Mikael Grizzly]

Ch: There were two FMVs in original FO, showing the muties in their hunched, hulking glory.

Op: Fallout has none of these, the last sequel was released in 1998 and the subsequent spinoffs butchered it, with the cancellation of Fallout 3 being the coup de grace.

[Cerpin]

Brotherhood of Steel was atrocious.