IDM/Avant-garde Discussion

[ericms]

I realize the title is lame, but it's the best I could do (well, I could have gone with "I wear mittens when needed"). I know there are some people on this forum well into music that might be described as what the title of this thread is, so I'm hoping we'll have some discussion in here. Actually, it'll just fail miserably and all three of the people who end up reading this thread know it!

So, to kick start this, Autechre is releasing a new album, Quaristice, on March 3rd! Here's the official announcment:

http://warprecords.com/news/?offset=0&ti_id=1369

[KineticAesthetic]

Is Squarepusher IDM?

[ericms]

Ah, one of the three people has posted. :P

Yes, I would definitely say that Squarepusher qualifies as IDM, but don't worry that much about what does or doesn't suit the IDM name.

[KineticAesthetic]

Well, here's what I think of Squarepusher.

He's the man.

Also, don't you think that this is a kinda limited topic for discussion?

What else is IDM?

[sea]

I listen to avant-garde music, but it doesn't fall under the "dance" category.

[ericms]

I was actually thinking it was too broad, but again, don't fret over artists fitting into whatever the hell IDM is (because that's obviously what you're doing.. kidding) because I'd venture to say that it's a pretty meaningless term now.

That's fine sea, as long as your parents and friends hate it.

[sea]

Well, Arcturus, Solefald and Ulver aren't really that hate-able.

[KineticAesthetic]

I don't like labels, then, I guess. I don't listen to music because it's a genre. I like Squarepusher. But I also like non 'IDM' classified music. It seems a rather irrelevant classification.

[soulslicer]

Isn't all forms of downbeat and downtempo music avant garde? Why even art rock is avant garde I presume?

Lol, art rock, the name people give to genre's. Proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_rock

[Absinthe]

I've been mad ****ing psyched over Quaristice since hearing about it. I kept waiting for somebody to come out with a new IDM fix. Squarepusher's usually more prolific, and I don't consider Rushup Edge to be the next Aphex Twin album. I'm really interested in hearing what curveballs they'll throw this time.

[KineticAesthetic]

Still pretty irrelevant in my opinion.



Also, soulslicer, did you change your signature because I said the links in full were horrible looking?

[ericms]

My brother bought "Hello Everything" a few days ago and I'm really enjoying "Bubble Life," and "Plotinus." I've actually had the CD on my PC for a while now, but I thought it'd be easier to start my sentence by saying that I had my first listen recently. I guess it wasn't.. hah. I would say more seriously though that "Ultravisitor" is by far my favorite album by him.

I've been mad ****ing psyched over Quaristice since hearing about it. I kept waiting for somebody to come out with a new IDM fix. Squarepusher's usually more prolific, and I don't consider Rushup Edge to be the next Aphex Twin album. I'm really interested in hearing what curveballs they'll throw this time.

Oh, yes! I hope they'll completely redefine themselves, but considering their more progressive past I doubt it'll happen all in one go. I really dug "Pro Radii" from their last album for the simple fact that it was much different than anything else released by them.

[KineticAesthetic]

My Red Hot Car is great. From Hello I like Planetarium and Welcome to Europe.

[ericms]

Isn't all forms of downbeat and downtempo music avant garde? Why even art rock is avant garde I presume?

Lol, art rock, the name people give to genre's. Proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_rock

I'm not sure, I had AMM, noise artists, free improv, and others in my head when making the thread. It doesn't matter a whole lot though, and all the Warp artists users here know of are fine for discussion.

[TheAntipop]

I still haven't managed to give Untitled a good sit down. It's actually right next to me now, amongst a bunch of other CD's I got from Amazon ages ago. Listening to CD's is far too much effort when I have my documents full of music right here on my laptop.

Fact of the matter, I haven't really sat down with anything of the sort in a while to be quite honest. Looking forward to the next release, though.

On the subject of Squarepusher, whilst I quite enjoyed Hello Everything, it felt a bit too... ''with bells on'', if you follow. Probably not, but whatever. I hope he goes back to making much darker music in the vein of some of Ultravisitor tracks and songs such as Tundra 4, etc. Regardless, it was a nice listen all the same, but it hasn't got near enough plays to rival Feed Me Weird Things or Ultravisitor

I was going to go see him in London a few months ago, too playing a live jazz bass guitar session or something. Damned lack of interest and transport stopped me there, though.

[ericms]

http://angryape.com/news/2007/12/autechre-quaristice-track-listing-announced

Quaristice Track Listing:

1. Altibzz
2. The Plc
3. IO
4. Plyphon
5. Perience
6. SonDEremawe
7. Simmm
8. Paralel Suns
9. Steels
10. Tankakern
11. Rale
12. Fo13
13. fwzE
14. 90101-51-1
15. bnc Castl
16. Theswere
17. WNSN
18. chenc9
19. Notwo
20. Outh9X

Is this real you think?

[TheAntipop]

To be fair, you could headbutt a computer keyboard and come up with a bunch of tracks that could pass off for Autechre titles, so who knows. 20 tracks though, eh? We'll see.

[ericms]

To be fair, you could headbutt a computer keyboard and come up with a bunch of tracks that could pass off for Autechre titles, so who knows. 20 tracks though, eh? We'll see.

I think I did that once, and came out with a song off "Confield." I've heard it's been confirmed by Autechre anyhow. As long as the songs aren't as short as those on "Minidisc," but I guess that was an entirely different concept.

Autechre aside, does anyone have Oval's album "Ovalcommers?" I can't help but think it's a melodic Merzbow, along with an added dimensional and visual component that most noise artists don't have. It's on bleep actually.. I'm pretty sure.

[ComradeBadger]

My dabbling in IDM has been restricted to Kid606.. which, I really didn't like :|

[Viperidae]

Quaristice Track Listing:

1. Altibzz
2. The Plc
3. IO
4. Plyphon
5. Perience
6. SonDEremawe
7. Simmm
8. Paralel Suns
9. Steels
10. Tankakern
11. Rale
12. Fo13
13. fwzE
14. 90101-51-1
15. bnc Castl
16. Theswere
17. WNSN
18. chenc9
19. Notwo
20. Outh9X
Er... I sincerely doubt that's it. Their titles are admittedly pretty asinine, but these are just random. They usually mean something. Case in point. (http://www.rydia.net/~pyrop/autechre/) The number of tracks seems right. It's purportedly a double album.

The problem with IDM is that it doesn't mean anything. The original definition was applied to the original AI-era compilations. We've come a long way from that. I prefer Aphex's 'Braindance' catch-all, but admittedly it sounds silly. Personally I wouldn't put Aphex and Autechre in the same category--they try to do very different things with their music. Squarepusher and Aphex I'd say are closer in styles, but still not similar enough to be in the same category. I honestly can't offer a solution right now to the category problem with Warp artists.

The thing about Untilted is it's a companion piece to their live sets of 04-present. They took the pieces of that set that they liked most and threw it into an album--probably the closest we'll get to a live album from them, which results in some less coherent, track-like songs.

It's one of the least listened albums for me, but it still has its pros. LCC, Ipacial and Pro Radii are all brilliant--Pro Radii I just don't like as much. Augmatic is fun at first but is admittedly somewhat shallow in comparison to Ipacial. The killer track for me is Sublimit. They sampled Sparky D (Who? Tell me about it.) for lols, the drums are varied enough to be interesting and yet not so insane as to not be able to wrap your head around and it has the two-part track style that the rest of the album does, the latter of which has the most frightening pad lines I've ever heard from them.

I can understand if Untilted as a whole is a harder listen. It's certainly more clinical sounding compared to Draft, but at least it's fun (ie dance-like), as opposed to Confield.

[ericms]

Er... I sincerely doubt that's it. Their titles are admittedly pretty asinine, but these are just random. They usually mean something. Case in point. (http://www.rydia.net/~pyrop/autechre/) The number of tracks seems right. It's purportedly a double album.

Well, to me the track titles come off as being those which fans of Autechre might come up with, thinking they sound legitimate.

The problem with IDM is that it doesn't mean anything. The original definition was applied to the original AI-era compilations. We've come a long way from that. I prefer Aphex's 'Braindance' catch-all, but admittedly it sounds silly. Personally I wouldn't put Aphex and Autechre in the same category--they try to do very different things with their music. Squarepusher and Aphex I'd say are closer in styles, but still not similar enough to be in the same category. I honestly can't offer a solution right now to the category problem with Warp artists.

Yeah ok, but this whole IDM genre argument is now, and has been for a while, as meaningless as the term itself is. Honestly, how long and on how many different forums has this been disputed? No hard feelings though, merely a point that is probably in the back of most of our heads anyway.


I can understand if Untilted as a whole is a harder listen. It's certainly more clinical sounding compared to Draft, but at least it's fun (ie dance-like), as opposed to Confield.

In what respect is it more clinical sounding? I typically think of their albums in colors, and Untilted is a warm one (and apparently I think of colors in terms of temperature). I find
Confield to be monochromatic, and Draft 7.30 to have light to navy blue tones throughout. I think if most people were to think of them in colors they'd be similar to mine actually.

[Viperidae]

Clinical as dry. Very little reverb or delay is used. Few pads, very percussion-heavy. Beats take precedence over melodies. Very large dynamic range.

For me, Untilted is a very dark blue, almost black. Confield is rainy-day grey. Draft is dark brown and orange. LP5 is yellow, peach-coloured, with a trace of mauve. Amber is rust. Chiastic is steel grey, with a scattered broken glass texture, blotches of blue everywhere. I've also heard it described as underwater. The only image that Cichlisuite brings is of driving in the rain, faster and faster, until I crash into another car (LOL EMO MUISIC).

[ericms]

Clinical as dry. Very little reverb or delay is used. Few pads, very percussion-heavy. Beats take precedence over melodies. Very large dynamic range.

For me, Untilted is a very dark blue, almost black. Confield is rainy-day grey. Draft is dark brown and orange. LP5 is yellow, peach-coloured, with a trace of mauve. Amber is rust. Chiastic is steel grey, with a scattered broken glass texture, blotches of blue everywhere. I've also heard it described as underwater. The only image that Cichlisuite brings is of driving in the rain, faster and faster, until I crash into another car (LOL EMO MUISIC).

Really? I find Untilted to be almost tropical. I find their earlier albums like "Incunabula," "Amber," and "Tri Repetae" to be cold colors (nothing very interesting there, but I do enjoy Incunabula very much). My colors are soooo much better than yours though! Face it.. or don't.. in fact, pretend like you're facing it, but then do a backflip.

[Absinthe]

When Untilted was released, Booth and Brown said they thought the album was warmer than their previous albums.

How? I don't know. I tend to feel it's very clinical and dry. Not to say that's bad, since I love it. But I guess that shows how differently people can view the same thing. They've always had a relatively austere palette. But albums like Draft, Tri, or Confield gave me the impression of these big, alien constructs that hit with a lot of drive and force. Sonically, they're all over the place. Untilted sounds like it could give you whiplash in a lot of places with its quick, snappy quality.

On the subject of Squarepusher, whilst I quite enjoyed Hello Everything, it felt a bit too... ''with bells on'', if you follow. Probably not, but whatever. I hope he goes back to making much darker music in the vein of some of Ultravisitor tracks and songs such as Tundra 4, etc. Regardless, it was a nice listen all the same, but it hasn't got near enough plays to rival Feed Me Weird Things or Ultravisitor

I get what you're saying, but I've personally gotten a lot of play time from Hello Everything. He sounds like he's just having fun, making a lot of rich, melodic textures. "Welcome to Europe" and "Rotate Electrolyte" are songs I listen to almost regularly, and I find "Plotinus" to be pretty dark with it's orchestral doom theme. And while I generally prefer his electronic output, the jazz fusion songs are pretty damn catchy.

I think Ultravisitor was the culmination of some frustration or message he was trying to convey. It seemed to me a recurring element in a lot of his previous work, and it ended in a multi-faced collage that put on display all his talents and styles, from the sweetly melodic to the self-indulgent noise. Going further in that direction after Ultravisitor would strike me as redundant, and so it was good he released something totally different.

[TheAntipop]

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, Hello Everything was fantastic in the aspect that he went and did a whole bunch of cool new things, and it is a very, very nice album to listen to. With Squarepusher I have a lot of memories and traces of nostalgia to do with certain parts of the last 5 years and his music has really reflected off of that, most accurately the Feed Me Weird Things and Ultravisitor albums. That very dark, messed up and clinically weird stuff found on both albums is going to always have a really untouchable spot in my heart that no one else will be able to get to, but I'm all for change and I'm really looking forward to what he comes out with next.

On the subject of colours and Autechre, I hadn't really thought of anything else but Amber, which I always felt had a winter sunset type feel to it, but maybe that's because I use to listen to it constantly during the winter last year on afternoon/evening walks.

[CrazyHarij]

the whole point of idm is to endlessly debate what's idm or not. beards are idm. cats too. deep sea creatures aren't.. or are they?

[Ennui]

I'd say that deep sea creatures are idm.

On the subject of Squarepusher, whilst I quite enjoyed Hello Everything, it felt a bit too... ''with bells on'', if you follow. Probably not, but whatever. I hope he goes back to making much darker music in the vein of some of Ultravisitor tracks and songs such as Tundra 4, etc. Regardless, it was a nice listen all the same, but it hasn't got near enough plays to rival Feed Me Weird Things or Ultravisitor

I completely agree.

Does anyone else consider Amon Tobin to be idm? He's not as esoteric or inaccessible as Squarepusher, Autechre, or the non-fuzzy side of Aphex Twin, but his music seems to qualify and it's certainly masterful.

[Absinthe]

I'd call it IDM. Just listen to "Foley Room". Although he does have a significant big beat influence.

[Qonfused]

I hate the genre IDM. Anything electronic that can't be placed anywhere else is placed there. Taking just the words "intelligent dance music," most music in that category doesn't fit. No one would "dance" to Gantz Graf, though I would to Peacock Tail, both of which are considered IDM. It's a bad name for most of the music that's considered IDM, but I guess it's more specific than "electronic."

[Ennui]

IDM is a silly name, yeah. I usually refer to what I listen to as "experimental"

[Geogaddi]

Chris Clark (http://www.myspace.com/throttleclark) has a new album coming soon.

[ericms]

Chris Clark (http://www.myspace.com/throttleclark) has a new album coming soon.

Yeah, I was listening to his new EP that's out. I enjoyed it more than "Body Riddle," which is actually the only album by him I own. Speaking of which, "Herzog" is great off that album.

[ericms]

I'm loving the cover, probably one of my favorite of theirs (TDR).

[Viperidae]

Probably my least fave. The inside better be good.

[Ennui]

I'm more worried about the music frankly :p

[Viperidae]

Oh, I'm sure it'll alienate everyone as usual.

[Qonfused]

Album art equals the quality of the music.

[ericms]

I only wish that instead of using lines to distance the letters at the top they used dots. It's sort of hard to see, but they sure look like lines. Minimalism easily gets to me.

[Absinthe]

Hmm... The album art doesn't do anything for me. It reminds me a lot of their really early EP work. Is this a sign? Both AFX and Squarepusher have now put out their quintessential "retro" work, so I wonder if this is Ae's turn.

I like their more abstract visual designs, like on Draft 7.30. But of course, I'm not going to be buying it for the CD art.

[CrazyHarij]

Oh, I'm sure it'll alienate everyone as usual.



Haha spot on.

[Viperidae]

Is this a sign? Both AFX and Squarepusher have now put out their quintessential "retro" work, so I wonder if this is Ae's turn.
Technically, Untilted was theirs, as afaik they had a minimal use of computers (definately no generative stuff). But the same could be argued for Draft. Untilted, at least sonically (timbre and all those useless terms), sounds more retro to me.

[Absinthe]

From a production standpoint, perhaps. But I never really thought of it having a retro sound to it specifically. Maybe that's just because Hello Everything and the Analord series seemed drastically more steeped in it by comparison, where you could hear on almost every level that the music was being made with simpler/aged equipment and recording techniques.

[CrazyHarij]

From a production standpoint, perhaps. But I never really thought of it having a retro sound to it specifically. Maybe that's just because Hello Everything and the Analord series seemed drastically more steeped in it by comparison, where you could hear on almost every level that the music was being made with simpler/aged equipment and recording techniques.

Yeah untilted felt very electronic in my opinion, but I guess it depends on what you deem retro or futuristic. Autechre have the drawback(?) that their music has constantly been the strongest contender for possible future music, their influences are nowhere near squarepusher's or aphex's retro territory.