The G-Man's Employers [Archive] - Halflife2.net Forums

Paradoxy

25-01-2007, 02:51 PM

The G-Man's Employers:

The Combine are aware of the G-Man's organisation. You've got to wonder what relationship they have with it: Is it a threat to The Combine? A rival player/empire? I don't think so - all the talk of contracts, bidders, and employment, there's the strong impression that this is business, that the G-Man's organisation is a for-profit organisation of time-manipulators; offering their services to a pan-dimensional pan-temporal market. The entire Half-Life 2 story is an example of how their business works. It's Determinsim - they are able to speculate all the factors and find out the most expedient means to get something done - The Right Man, In The Wrong Place, Can Make All The Difference In The World. All they had to do was insert a certain individual in a certain place at a certain time and events would proceed from there which would achieve the desired ends.

Is The G-Man Human?

I think the G-Man himself IS human, although I will be interested to see if his organisation is a human one as well. If it is, this opens up the interesting idea that, at some time, somewhere, in some dimension or state of existence, humans are technologically embued with the power to toy with time and space. And yet of course, naturally, they still pursue what human society does best: capitalism and offering their values and service for gain - in this particular case the fascinating product they offering is the chance to buy the past or future, changing events along the causal timelines to get desired consequences. If a person can own belongings, or land, or intellectual ideas, why can't a person buy past and future states of events?

If The Organisation IS Human:

Why shouldn't this organisation feel any loyalty to the humans suffering under the Combine? Surely they could have routed the combine before this ever began? Why didn't they? One could ask the same question for ALL the people throughout human history suffering under slavery, dictators, genocides, famines, climate changes and wars. They must treat the history of human suffering amorally and as a commodity, just as for example a meat industry must treat the lives of animals amorally and as a commodity. In Half-Life 2, a particular set of events has been pruchased, and this organisation simply uses the most expedient method to get the job done, and considering their powers to manipulate and forecast the causes and consequences of events - they are able to tell when the right man in the wrong place will make all the difference, whatever that difference turns out to be.

Samon

25-01-2007, 03:42 PM

Welcome Paradoxy. Moved post to correct forum. I don't think Gman is human.

Evo

25-01-2007, 04:15 PM

G-Man is freelance, and considers Gordon to be part of the package of services he provides.

Someone hired the G-Man to eliminate the Cominbe in City 17, who as such used the resources he had, Gordon

G-Man is not human

This is conjecture btw

Darkside55

25-01-2007, 04:49 PM

Welcome to the forums, first off.

I like the way you presented your theory. In fact I'd be inclined to agree with it if there weren't some outstanding facts that run counter to it, or at the very least need to be taken into account.

The first is that you have to remember the G-man's words at the end of Half-Life 2; specifically, there were offers for Gordon's services that he ordinarily would not contemplate. This implies that there are some limits to which offers are made, certain parties that he would not have loaned Gordon out to under any circumstances. Were the G-man part of a pure for-profit organization then there would be no offer they would not consider as long as the bid was sufficient. However, the G-man's words imply that they have standards, and perhaps an agenda with which they use their power.

Secondly, it's entirely conjecture that the rebels paid anything for Gordon Freeman. While Dr. Breen mentioned that he was up for bid, we don't know at what time Gordon's contract with the rebels was up or if the G-man even had a contract with them. That is to say, if the G-man started listening to "interesting offers" during the course of Gordon Freeman's work in City 17, he could've only then started putting his services up for auction. Nothing really suggests that the rebels purchased him...in fact there's counter evidence to that, although it may no longer be canon.

Third, bringing up the agenda again, I must staunchly cling to a comment made in the G-man's NPC code that reads, "//misunderstood savior of humanity." Again, this implies that at least the G-man--if not his employers--has a very specific purpose. Before the climactic events in City 17, then, all offers made on Gordon Freeman must have followed a specific ideal, been for a goal that would in some way benefit mankind. And while it's arguable that Gordon's contract COULD have been offered between the rebels and the Combine, as both view their own way as beneficial to man, the rebels for whatever reason won out. I choose to believe that Gordon would never have been offered to the Combine, as their way--while securing mankind's future and guaranteed immortality--would have destroyed humanity in all but biological data.

Also, G-man IS human. Samon, Evo, you make baby Gordon Freeman cry. :p

Rapstah

25-01-2007, 07:44 PM

"You are man...he is not man...for you he waits...for you..."

Enough said.

Darkside55

25-01-2007, 08:14 PM

There's nothing linking that to the G-man. In fact the only time I have ever heard the Nihilanth say that IN-GAME is if you are teleported a third (or fourth?) time to an underground cavern where there is a gargantua waiting for you (one of those times it's the same area but there is an ichthyosaur instead).

People have attached that line to the G-man after hearing it in the pak0.pak file and it's always stuck with him. But there's never been any in-game link. Quite the opposite. :)

Samon

25-01-2007, 10:33 PM

He isn't human Dark. Don't be stubborn. Move on. Also, the line is obviously talking about Gman. :p

Darkside55

25-01-2007, 10:41 PM

Conjecture! And also, what reason would a non-human have to save humanity? He's a man, I tell you! A MAN!

Also telling me not to be stubborn is like telling me not to breathe. G-man is human! Dr. Breen is alive! The Combine were right! Race-X was on Xen! Otis ate the last donut!

Samon

25-01-2007, 10:44 PM

He doesn't want to save humanity! That just falls into his agenda by sheer chance!

Mahalis

25-01-2007, 11:36 PM

I must staunchly cling to a comment made in the G-man's NPC code that reads, "//misunderstood savior of humanity."
"Misunderstood servant of the people", IIRC

Darkside55

25-01-2007, 11:53 PM

Right. I've said it so many times I've forgotten what it is, haha. How is that possible? I guess it's because I haven't had to say it in a month or so. ;) Thank you for the correction.

Mikael Grizzly

26-01-2007, 12:04 AM

Darkside, when you prove that a human can brave a facility fallling appart, riddled with aliens and soldiers wearing a suit, tie, carrying a briefcase and walking where no sane person would, then I'll believe you.

G-Man, for obvious reasons, cannot be human.

As for the line... people, not humans.

Darkside55

26-01-2007, 12:21 AM

...Gordon Freeman can do it. You can play HL without the HEV suit, which means Gordon's simply in his lab uniform. :p

Besides we know a few things: the soldiers don't attack G-man, having received orders from him or at least acknowledging him as a person who is not to be harmed.

The G-man can manipulate time and space. This keeps him out of harm's way. Also notice that he is never DIRECTLY in harm's way throughout the game.

Jintor

26-01-2007, 02:11 AM

Servant of the people. Right. But which people?

Mahalis

26-01-2007, 02:17 AM

the chance to buy the past or future, changing events along the causal timelines to get desired consequences
This idea makes great story-sense. How else would there -always- be some door, some bent fence, some hole in the wall that Gordon can just fit through to get where he needs to go? I've always wanted there to be a good explanation for that beyond "it's just a game".

Rapstah

26-01-2007, 03:15 PM

Besides we know a few things: the soldiers don't attack G-man, having received orders from him or at least acknowledging him as a person who is not to be harmed.

They don't see him. He's invisible.

function9

26-01-2007, 05:49 PM

The Gman is an intergalactic pimp.

Darkside55

26-01-2007, 07:51 PM

They don't see him. He's invisible.
Where'd you get that idea? :p

They see him. Check your Opposing Force manual. Oh, they see him alright. Plus everyone else sees him, even in HL. He's seen on a tram with a scientist in the beginning, and also arguing with another scientist in Sector C.

Samon

26-01-2007, 08:19 PM

Opposing Force manual: not canon.

Atomic_Piggy

26-01-2007, 08:26 PM

I beleave GMan is an alien. I agreed with you Darkside55 until I reread my guide; note "as if he is not quite confortable with human speech". This is a major hint that suggests that he is not human. While it could be Marc
Laidlaw messing with us, there would be little point and would only fustrate the fans.
That quote was one quote from the SDK, and while it is canon (not saying its not) it has little "value" (if you know what I mean) in the grand scheme of things compared to the evidence he is alien. If he is a human agent then why did we lose the 7-hour-war? We could have just bent time and space and wtfpwnd their citadels. We could teleport to Xen (theres no proof the combine are actually on Xen) and as someone pointed out earlier, that quote doesn't suggest which people he serves...

Opposing Force manual: not canon.

But but...the canon...those long arguments...Op4 didn't happen?...I don't know what to say except **** YEAH HAVE THAT SHEPARD YOU BASTARD HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

Rapstah

26-01-2007, 08:35 PM

Where'd you get that idea? :p

They see him. Check your Opposing Force manual. Oh, they see him alright. Plus everyone else sees him, even in HL. He's seen on a tram with a scientist in the beginning, and also arguing with another scientist in Sector C.

The soldiers in the evacuation OSPREY didn't see Gman.
The scientist in the tram didn't show he saw him.
And besides, a lot of Xen aliens don't attack him, which they should.

Atomic_Piggy

26-01-2007, 08:45 PM

The soldiers in the evacuation OSPREY didn't see Gman.
The scientist in the tram didn't show he saw him.
And besides, a lot of Xen aliens don't attack him, which they should.

Aye, he clearly can make himself known to however he wants OR he has some pwoer over the creatures (though the latter isn't to likely). The overwatch ignore him as well.

Darkside55

26-01-2007, 09:33 PM

Opposing Force manual: not canon.
Canon, except for things that go against canon. Remember what Laidlaw said? It's canon unless it conflicts with something. That being said, Marc also said he never pays attention to the expansion packs when he's writing for HL. :laugh:

Of the line in the Prima guide, it's just there to mess with us. I'm sure of it. Reason being, those words were something fans came up with after Half-Life. Before anyone even knew about Half-Life 2 being in development people were saying, "Listen to how he sounds, he can't be human." And if you're a writer and you want to keep people on the edge what better way to confuse them than to throw a bone to an already-existing theory? It's the same with using "interdimensional bureaucrat" on the Episode 1 site. Neither of those specifically say he's an alien, but they're certainly fuel for the fire. And I already have my own little theory about that precise wording from the EpOne site (had it long before, but the way it's phrased lends more credence to the theory).

No, the only thing that I would ever question the meaning behind is the fact that you can't kill the G-man. And while that was originally just plot armor (in the most literal sense), there was a recent interview where someone, I forget who, said, "If you can't kill him what does that mean about his character?" That's the only curious bit of information I've ever heard that drops my 100% belief that he's human down a few notches.

Also, with regards to invisibility:

1. Scientist on tram had no reason to acknowledge him
2. Other scientists repeatedly mention the G-man's presence
3. What Xen aliens? I don't recall EVER seeing any aliens around that should have attacked him. He was always well out of harm's way.
4. Same goes for the Overwatch. Overwatch never sees him.

Atomic_Piggy

26-01-2007, 09:44 PM

Aye, the guide aknolodges his invincibility as well, in the canals section.
As for the human-alien argument, I know Valve toy with us all the time but pratically saying something (and have been since the gmans intro in HL) - I'm reffering to the alien thing of course - and then saying something later would fustrate me a lot. Maybe thats just me though.

Darkside55

26-01-2007, 10:48 PM

Right now we're all assuming that the G-man's identity will be revealed to us at some point it the future, when it might never be.

So it all becomes moot. :p

Xendance

26-01-2007, 10:54 PM

Its quite amazing how Half Life and Half Life 2 can cause such arguments about the storyline.

Rapstah

26-01-2007, 11:31 PM

It's a wee bit off topic, but Combine actually attack Gman.

highlander

27-01-2007, 12:29 AM

In Gmod maybe :P

Rapstah

27-01-2007, 12:43 AM

There is a console in the normal game too, you know.

Mahalis

27-01-2007, 01:59 AM

It's a wee bit off topic, but Combine actually attack Gman.
GMan's just not on the same "team", codewise, as anyone else, so anything that has a "rarr kill everything that's not my team"-type AI (e.g. Combine, headcrabs, etc.) will go after him.

Atomic_Piggy

27-01-2007, 06:50 AM

Right now we're all assuming that the G-man's identity will be revealed to us at some point it the future, when it might never be.

So it all becomes moot. :p

Pretty much yeah D:

riomhaire

27-01-2007, 01:31 PM

3. What Xen aliens? I don't recall EVER seeing any aliens around that should have attacked him. He was always well out of harm's way.
Actually, in the Nova Prospekt moniter sighting you can sometimes see antlions running past the g-man in the background.

Now, on to my theories. I think that the g-man is not human and that he is a mercinary. He takes a contract and does whatever it takes to fufil it. In HL1, the Combine were his employers, his objective: Sieze Xen. He also took this oppertunity to hire Gordon. In HL2 his probable employers are the Vortigaunts/Resistance.

Piers89

27-01-2007, 05:55 PM

If the gman isnt human then what is he?
A robot?
A shape shifting alien?
An alien wearing a human's skin? (like men in black 1)

no im sorry these are all pretty preposterous, we already know teleportation is a very real thing in the half life universe - so the gman being a man with some mobile teleportation technology is a very real possibility

Samon

27-01-2007, 09:11 PM

"As though he is not quite comfortable with human speech."

AHA-Lambda

27-01-2007, 11:09 PM

At least we have avoided saying Gman = God or Gman= Gordon from the future etc.

Ap2000

28-01-2007, 01:20 AM

"As though he is not quite comfortable with human speech."

That pretty much settles it I'd say.

Jintor

28-01-2007, 03:06 AM

Maybe he's just not quite comfortable with English.

He speaks Chinese well enough.

Darkside55

28-01-2007, 07:25 AM

You guys cling to that line too hard. You really think Valve's going to come out and say, "...as if he's not comfortable with human speech WINK WINK NOD NOD JABBING YOU WITH MY ELBOW KNOW WHAT I MEAN?" Pretty poor storytelling. We're talking about a bunch of designers who withhold information like it was precious gold, and they're going to come right out and drop a bomb like that long before the story's climax? Because make no mistake, Half-Life will either climax with the revelation of the G-man and his employers or it's going to be such a pivotal moment that they're going to want to snap it out there at you. Like, "BANG this is what it is!" not "Let's drop a bunch of hints leading up to it."

I mean maybe I'm just going a bit far and interpreting it how I think it should be, but I'm an avid reader and writing's my passion. I know how a story should unfold. I know the elements of setting up something like that...and if you want to get people off their guard you're going to be throwing them misinformation. And it isn't going to be labeled as such, you're going to be playing to something people already believe (like I mentioned in my previous post). That's illusion right there...the magician gets you to focus on his left hand while he's palming the card in his right.

Maybe he will turn out to be an alien or a robot or some kinda "thing" wearing a man's skin. I can't say for certain. But I'm telling you guys...don't trust little bits of information like that. Right now, from all we've seen, he's a man with a speech impediment. All that talk of host bodies and unfamiliarity with the nuances of human speech, that's drawing your eye. That's just a real clever way for the writer to say, "Hey, look over here. Over here. Right here, there we go." And for the time being, I'm not buying it.

Samon

28-01-2007, 11:04 AM

You say that, yet you cling so tightly to this.

"//misunderstood savior of humanity."

I'm not clinging to the "speech" line, I'm simply using it as evidence. For instance, lines such as this.

The victory is short-lived, however. Gordon's heroics catch the attention of a sinister interdimensional bureaucrat.

I find it obvious that Gman is not human, looking at all the clues and hints throughout the game.

Piers89

28-01-2007, 12:21 PM

An interdimensonal bureaucrat could easily be human.

Bureaucrat is a human word after all...

Narvi

28-01-2007, 02:07 PM

An interdimensonal bureaucrat could easily be human.

Bureaucrat is a human word after all...

English is a human language too.

riomhaire

28-01-2007, 02:38 PM

For some reason an idea for a scene in EP2/3 popped into my head last night. It went something like this:
You are in the black void, the g-man enters from the side, but doesn't look in your direction. A Combine Advisor appears. They start arguing over Gordon's contract (but only the g-man's lines can be heard). Suddenly a load of Vortigaunts appear. The g-man and the Combine just turn to them, pissed off, wave their hands (or somesuch gesture, whatever the giant floating slug can do) and the Vortigaunts disappear again, possibly in violent-looking fashon. After a bit more psychic discussion the g-man finally finally says "Agreed". The Advisor disappears again and the g-man walks towards Gordon, gives a little speech or just a sentence and you are thrown back into the game.

Just thought I'd share that.

Atomic_Piggy

28-01-2007, 02:47 PM

riomhaire

28-01-2007, 03:15 PM

It actually wasn't a dream. Just something that popped into my head after reading this thread.

I can only ever recall dreaming about a game once, and that was C&C3. Strangly, I dreamt up a cut-scene where a group of CABAL Cyborgs burst into a Nod base and captured it. There was really bright-neon stuff all around the base, a little bit like Tron. (when the Cyborgs took over the base, all the neon went from red to blue)

Darkside55

28-01-2007, 03:24 PM

You say that, yet you cling so tightly to this.

I knew you'd bring that up, but the difference between them is that line was a comment in code the devs saw, vs. something published in a book. You see the difference between the two; one is largely read and known to the general public. The other, I must continually bring up on a regular basis because nobody's heard of it. :p

Although, Valve isn't stupid and they don't believe their audience to be either. They likely knew the comment line would be uncovered, so here's the question: who's being led astray? Although, being a servant of the people doesn't necessarily make one human in the first place. In addition the thought came to me earlier this morning that "the people" might not even be referring to humanity. "The people" might be his employers, and they might not be human either (in fact "interdimensional" implies that they're not).

But I still say that the evidence for him being an alien is, at this point, circumstantial, and were I writing the story I'd keep throwing out little hints like that to keep people guessing.

riomhaire

28-01-2007, 03:41 PM

Dark, I wouldn't read too much into that little line. Some programmer probably stuck it in there as a joke behind Laidlaw's back :P

W4d5Y

28-01-2007, 04:06 PM

"Misunderstood servant of the people", IIRC
Maybe it doesn't imply human people, but just people in general, maybe seeking to address a wider audience, such as potential contract partners, purchasing the gman's offers for..getting their homeworld back? ^^

Piers89

28-01-2007, 05:29 PM

I think we should base our opinions on what he looks like.

He looks like a human, so he is a human.
Interdimensonal to me suggests hes from the future or such like.

Mahalis

28-01-2007, 05:35 PM

I think we should base our opinions on what he looks like.

He looks like a human, so he is a human.
Interdimensonal to me suggests hes from the future or such like.
That's it! Ooh... I just thought of something.
GMan =

GORDON FROM TEH FUTARE! :angel:

Piers89

28-01-2007, 05:37 PM

Well, no, not at all.

Mahalis

28-01-2007, 05:49 PM

:p I know. But nobody'd brought it up so far, so, you know, just putting it out there.

Anyhow... the trouble with the GMan = human-from-future thing is that it doesn't really explain anything. His funky speech, for one thing; his apparently limited power, another. If you can travel in time, how can anything possibly stop you? Vortiguants take your pawn - go back a few minutes before they arrive and stow the pawn elsewhere. That kind of thing.
Time travel, in this case, creates more problems than it solves. It also smells of lazy writing, which is very classic non-Valve.

Piers89

28-01-2007, 05:54 PM

Very true, i just prefer it over gman being an alien...

riomhaire

28-01-2007, 06:08 PM

Sorry, double post. See below.

riomhaire

28-01-2007, 06:11 PM

I think we should base our opinions on what he looks like.

He looks like a human, so he is a human.
He looks like a normal person...wait now. He looks like if you threw a grenade at him, he would die...damn it.

Interdimensonal to me suggests hes from the future or such like.
I hurt my brain trying to figure out the reasoning behind that statement :bonce:

Also, I have made two demonstrations on the g-man that can be found here (http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/7420/notfreemancopylg0.jpg) and here (http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/7691/gmantimecontrol8jq.jpg).

Piers89

28-01-2007, 06:21 PM

WOW, you clearly didnt see me disagreeing that gman was gordon, you know it would be possible for someone from the future to not be gordon, you know?

Also, 'throwing a grenade at him' and killing him would pretty pointless, thats just like saying if gordon died by falling off a ledge, or drowning in water, or shot by the combine he would be dead. End of. No more gordon.

riomhaire

28-01-2007, 06:39 PM

WOW, you clearly didnt see me disagreeing that gman was gordon, you know it would be possible for someone from the future to not be gordon, you know?
The 2 pics weren't directed exclusivly at you. I just felt like throwing them in there. I saw the post where you disagreed with the Gordon Freeman theory.

Ophiguris

29-01-2007, 12:05 AM

Could some one please put a bunch of hard work into a post with lots of 'eveidence' of Gordon being the Gman, from ANY time period?

I feel a whole lot of Gordon Cave Man jokes coming on...

nokori3byo

29-01-2007, 12:22 PM

No, the only thing that I would ever question the meaning behind is the fact that you can't kill the G-man. And while that was originally just plot armor (in the most literal sense), there was a recent interview where someone, I forget who, said, "If you can't kill him what does that mean about his character?" That's the only curious bit of information I've ever heard that drops my 100% belief that he's human down a few notches.

Hold the phone here! Has it ever been speculated that the comment about G-Man's invulnerability might've pertained to his (possible) status as an ally, rather than as a human/alien/what have you? In the context of Half-Life 1, of course, it wouldn't matter, since you can pretty much go hog wild killing anyone other than the G-man. But if we're talking Half-Life 2, it's a whole different ballgame. Maybe his invelnerability has to do with the friendly fire prohibition...

Of course, if the comment you alluded to was made in reference to HL1, please ignore everything I just said.

It's interesting to see the debate laid out point by point in a thread like this. Personally, I just think the G-man is a cool character and that the element of mystery is a big part of what makes him that way. The only thing that would really bum me out is if the G-man arc (which is likely to continue for the duration of the Half-Life series) ended stupidly--eg. with G-Dawg donning a mech suit for a final duel. But, no, they'd never do that to him. Mystique killing is a veritable blight.

By the by--and excuse this noobish question from a late-comer to the debate--has it ever been suggested that he works for a rogue faction within the Combine?

Mahalis

29-01-2007, 05:42 PM

Interesting thought. He clearly has local teleportation tech, though, which is exactly what the Combine don't have... so unless he's some kind of rogue Combine scientist researcher guy (which is possible), it no quite work.

Maybe his invelnerability has to do with the friendly fire prohibition...
Nothing else can kill him either - no Combine, no aliens. Only way I've ever seen him die is via turrets and vehicle-guns in GMod.

Narvi

29-01-2007, 06:11 PM

Interesting thought. He clearly has local teleportation tech, though, which is exactly what the Combine don't have... so unless he's some kind of rogue Combine scientist researcher guy (which is possible), it no quite work.

Nothing else can kill him either - no Combine, no aliens. Only way I've ever seen him die is via turrets and vehicle-guns in GMod.

Inaccurate. He simply has a ****ton of health in GMod. Besides, GMod ain't exactly the most accurate of things in terms of HL2 gameplay mechanics.

It's fun watching him bounce around when you spawn a Myrmidont near him though.

Atomic_Piggy

29-01-2007, 06:35 PM

gman is gordon

You will die now.

Remus

29-01-2007, 06:38 PM

I don't actually have any proof to support my theory about the G-Man but here goes.
I think he really is human, but not from the past or the future (Gordon from teh futures!!11:upstare: ). I think he is form another parallel universe very similar to Earth.
To answer the question:" if he is human then why doesn't he do something to help"
I have an interesting answer to that too, what if G-Man is the only survivor from his homeworld after some horrible cataclysm or war (that would explain what the G-Man said in HL1 that Gordon reminded him of himself a "survivor").Therefore sending an army from home to help Earth wouldn't be an option. I think he is on no ones side, he is on his side. However in the end it might turn out that he is one of the "good guys".

Darkside55

29-01-2007, 06:39 PM

Hold the phone here! Has it ever been speculated that the comment about G-Man's invulnerability might've pertained to his (possible) status as an ally, rather than as a human/alien/what have you? In the context of Half-Life 1, of course, it wouldn't matter, since you can pretty much go hog wild killing anyone other than the G-man. But if we're talking Half-Life 2, it's a whole different ballgame. Maybe his invelnerability has to do with the friendly fire prohibition...

Of course, if the comment you alluded to was made in reference to HL1, please ignore everything I just said.
Yes, the quote from the interview was referring to HL1, where shooting him just results in sparks.

The only thing that would really bum me out is if the G-man arc (which is likely to continue for the duration of the Half-Life series) ended stupidly--eg. with G-Dawg donning a mech suit for a final duel.
That's Dr. Breen's schtick. For the final duel with Gordon, the G-man is going to only use his briefcase to pummel you into submission. Half-Life 5: Crowbar vs. Briefcase! Coming in 2015.

Nothing else can kill him either - no Combine, no aliens. Only way I've ever seen him die is via turrets and vehicle-guns in GMod.
You can set him on fire during the intro sequence in HL2. I don't remember the command, but that'll kill him. There's a youtube video of it somewhere.