What could have been done better?

[Max35]

So, what is your opinion on what could have been done better in Ep1? Graphics? AI? Gameplay? Don't be afraid to get specific.

[Rim-Fire]

The escort scene and I think Alyx should tell you to hurry up if you wait around for a few minutes. That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

[Solver]

Okay, this may seem somewhat harsh and make it look like I don't appreciate Ep1. That is not true. However, it is my style, so when I write posts criticizing some aspects of a game, they tend to sound somewhat harsh.

First, AI in Exit 17. As I said in the other thread, the AI there has faults incompatible with Valve quality, and I am baffled as to how they could be missed in playtesting. In case the fault isn't obvious, it's that the citizen AI is not quite intent on following you, nor on escaping. It acts much like the standard rebel AI. When you're escorting citizens through the courtyard, if you run into that shack, the citizens will stay outside fighting the soldiers and may - only may - come to you while returning fire. I've also seen them just get stuck there fighting.

This is totally unacceptable. The citizens should be concerned with nothing except getting the hell out of there. Fighting should have been a secondary goal. This would also give the player more choices. If you want to run quickly through the courtyard and into the shack, the citizens should damn well follow while laying down some fire on the move. Not try to take cover and fight the soldiers. Of course, if you want to sit there and fight, so should they.

This particular thing, I think, sticks out like a sore thumb in Ep1, which I was overall blown away. Oh well.

The damage to City17 could have been shown better. I think that the city was, overall, at just about the right level of destruction, and I liked the little touches, such as windows without glass but boarded up. However, they could have placed, as Samon suggested, a dead Strider embedded into a building or a bunch of other things. Half of a gunship sticking out of a crater in a street.

The dialogue in the game, while fun, didn't cut it in a couple of places. The exchanges, if you can call them that, between Gordon and Alyx were good. But in Urban Flight, the sequences were not so good. The rebels you met were thinking about evacuation, yes, but there wasn't enough panic. They didn't seem to be aware of the fact that the Citadel can blow any moment, vaporizing the city - made even more noticeable by the fact that they (the rebels) had a TV with Kleiner stating this very fact on. I say that having rebels was good for gameplay reasons, but the dialogue there could have been done somewhat better.

One miss that Valve acknowledge in their comments is with Alyx giving hints. The player isn't "trained" to use this function, where pressing E on Alyx can have her give you a hint / remind you as to what you're supposed to do in numerous puzzle situations.

Vortigaunts. They could've shown them. Yes I know they were in the opening. But City17 also had a number of Vorts that, one should assume, can get vaporized just like humans. As such, they should also evacuate. However, you see no trace of Vortigaunts getting out of the city. There are no dead Vortigaunt bodies in the streets, and there's no Vortigaunt boarding the trains, either. A little detail somewhere to show that the Vorts were also going through this would've been good.

I must say, I absolutely can't imagine a single complain against the first two-thirds of the game (from the start until you emerge back into the city). It's too good.

[Rim-Fire]

The last Vort you see in HL2 is a dead one in Nova Prospekt. I think perhaps intentionally left out Vorts in the city sections of HL2 and EP1.

[Samon]

Solver raised most of my points.

Most of my complaints are lodged against the City sections, because I simply don't feel as though they have been executed with as much care, precision and thought as the Citadel chapters. There simply isn't enough emphasis on evacuation, the dialogue exchanges are fairly mediocre and the cooperative gameplay bogs down the pace in what I believe should be a hectic final two chapters.

[Jintor]

I wonder if Vorts can still port-jump like in HL, or if that was a Nihilith thing.

All other main complaints have been lodged.

[Mahalis]

Pretty sure they can teleport, if that's what you mean... obviously they can get in and out of G-Man's storage area, which may be a special case, but they also get Alyx out of the Citadel explosion, which (afaik) is not G-Man territory.

[Acepilotf14]

G-Man owns all fool. And, I think They should've added a new gun... I mean come on, same old guns are starting to get boring. Or maybe Alyx gives you a scope attachment for the pistol in the middle of the game... SOMETHING!

[Samon]

I'm pleased there were no new weapons. It simply wasn't needed.

[Atomic_Piggy]

Okay, this may seem somewhat harsh and make it look like I don't appreciate Ep1. That is not true. However, it is my style, so when I write posts criticizing some aspects of a game, they tend to sound somewhat harsh.

First, AI in Exit 17. As I said in the other thread, the AI there has faults incompatible with Valve quality, and I am baffled as to how they could be missed in playtesting. In case the fault isn't obvious, it's that the citizen AI is not quite intent on following you, nor on escaping. It acts much like the standard rebel AI. When you're escorting citizens through the courtyard, if you run into that shack, the citizens will stay outside fighting the soldiers and may - only may - come to you while returning fire. I've also seen them just get stuck there fighting.

This is totally unacceptable. The citizens should be concerned with nothing except getting the hell out of there. Fighting should have been a secondary goal. This would also give the player more choices. If you want to run quickly through the courtyard and into the shack, the citizens should damn well follow while laying down some fire on the move. Not try to take cover and fight the soldiers. Of course, if you want to sit there and fight, so should they.

This particular thing, I think, sticks out like a sore thumb in Ep1, which I was overall blown away. Oh well.

The damage to City17 could have been shown better. I think that the city was, overall, at just about the right level of destruction, and I liked the little touches, such as windows without glass but boarded up. However, they could have placed, as Samon suggested, a dead Strider embedded into a building or a bunch of other things. Half of a gunship sticking out of a crater in a street.

The dialogue in the game, while fun, didn't cut it in a couple of places. The exchanges, if you can call them that, between Gordon and Alyx were good. But in Urban Flight, the sequences were not so good. The rebels you met were thinking about evacuation, yes, but there wasn't enough panic. They didn't seem to be aware of the fact that the Citadel can blow any moment, vaporizing the city - made even more noticeable by the fact that they (the rebels) had a TV with Kleiner stating this very fact on. I say that having rebels was good for gameplay reasons, but the dialogue there could have been done somewhat better.

One miss that Valve acknowledge in their comments is with Alyx giving hints. The player isn't "trained" to use this function, where pressing E on Alyx can have her give you a hint / remind you as to what you're supposed to do in numerous puzzle situations.

Vortigaunts. They could've shown them. Yes I know they were in the opening. But City17 also had a number of Vorts that, one should assume, can get vaporized just like humans. As such, they should also evacuate. However, you see no trace of Vortigaunts getting out of the city. There are no dead Vortigaunt bodies in the streets, and there's no Vortigaunt boarding the trains, either. A little detail somewhere to show that the Vorts were also going through this would've been good.

I must say, I absolutely can't imagine a single complain against the first two-thirds of the game (from the start until you emerge back into the city). It's too good.

Your my new god. *bows before Solver and worships him :angel:

[Solver]

Take my blessing, oh the most atomic of my worshipers!

[Max35]

Well, that was a rather quick shift in the balance of power...

[stewe231]

I think that the vorts teleported out after they teleported alyx from the explosion, cause after that, i saw no more vorts -.-, and i like those vorts shooting thier laser things outa there hands -_-


also I think you get a new vehicle in ep2, maybe a new weapons to :D

i know what would be cool, they change the grenades in the smg, to like electrical nades so they like "fry" the striders or hunters :D :D :D

[Rapstah]

Episode 1 had a planned new weapon, Black Hole Grenades, but it was dropped and the concept was put into Portal instead.

[Shift]

G-Man owns all fool. And, I think They should've added a new gun... I mean come on, same old guns are starting to get boring. Or maybe Alyx gives you a scope attachment for the pistol in the middle of the game... SOMETHING!

The weapons wont change because we have seen every branch of the Combine Overwatch in City 17 and hence seen all the weaponry they have, so for them to just all of a sudden have a new weapon to use against you would have been inaccurate, same as Alyx all of a sudden having a new scope upgrade for your pistle, hmm she has it all this time and decides to give it you AFTER the Battle of City 17. As samon said, it simply was not needed.

Basically what solver said, they really could have beefed the ruined City 17 a lot, like Combine soliders and rebels dotted around the streets, an APC with smoke billowing out of it smashed through a wall, blood on the floor. Just show a sense that this was one ****ing furious battle.

[Mahalis]

and the concept was put into Portal instead.
Buhwaah? Source?

[Rapstah]

Buhwaah? Source?

Were we supposed to understand that? :P

[Mahalis]

and the concept was put into Portal instead.
What? Whence came this information?

[Rapstah]

Souce tells me he wanna stay secret.

[Atomic_Piggy]

Suuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrreeeeeeeee. Your "source". Right.

[riomhaire]

Episode 1 had a planned new weapon, Black Hole Grenades, but it was dropped and the concept was put into Portal instead.
It's called the hopwire and it's available in via the console.

hopwire_vortex 1
give weapon_hopwire

Fun little gadget.

[Mahalis]

What confuses me about black hole grenades -> Portal is that Portal is a puzzle game, not a FPS. The ASHPD is the only weapon you have, from everything we've seen/heard so far, ever, and the only actual damage-dealing objects are the guns on the turrets and the energy balls. Grenades totally do not fit into any of that at all.
Unless they're in multiplayer or something... but that still doesn't make sense, because with actual weapons available there's no incentive to use the portal gun.

Fun little gadget.
Except when you toss it, and Alyx runs in front of you, and you lose...

[Jintor]

Not really. It spawns a million ragdoll clones of her and drags them in.

Trust me, I've tried.

[Mahalis]

Really? I always get the black "Alyx Died" screen.

[Flyingdebris]

I think the last fight with the strider could have been handled a lot better. The only realy surprise in that whole fight was that it could shove around a few containers, only one of which posed an actual threat. There just wasn't enough drama in the last fight. Maybe if there were 2 striders or a strider and a gunship. Or maybe if you actually had to fight off incoming gunships while the train was in motion. Don't get me wrong, the citadel 'splosion was a great ending, but you're a captive audience at that point. I just wish the fight prior would have been more dramatic or fresh than just a strider battle with 1 new trick.

[Jintor]

Really? I always get the black "Alyx Died" screen.

Come to think of it, I havn't tried it during *combat*. Generally because I don't look where it is and end up getting sucked into it myself.

I tried it on the cliffs at the beginning, because of a glitch. Well, not a glitch. I had notarget on and that stopped me activating something or other, so Alyx was stuck - so I tried to make her move by spawning Combine, whatever. I think she's invincible for that part of t3h game.

[riomhaire]

What confuses me about black hole grenades -> Portal is that Portal is a puzzle game, not a FPS. The ASHPD is the only weapon you have, from everything we've seen/heard so far, ever, and the only actual damage-dealing objects are the guns on the turrets and the energy balls. Grenades totally do not fit into any of that at all.
Unless they're in multiplayer or something... but that still doesn't make sense, because with actual weapons available there's no incentive to use the portal gun.


Except when you toss it, and Alyx runs in front of you, and you lose...
impusle 203

[DEATH eVADER]

Episode 1 had a planned new weapon, Black Hole Grenades, but it was dropped and the concept was put into Portal instead.

As a matter of fact, the BlackHole Gun was originally conceived in pre-alpha HL :O

[Rapstah]

Hopwire - Wannabe SLAM.

Blackhole - Looks like hopwire, pulls people in.

Now, it was way too powerful for the game. Some smart Valve guy saw them, was reminded of Narbacular Drop, and there we go.

[Mahalis]

Hopwire - Wannabe SLAM.

Blackhole - Looks like hopwire, pulls people in.

Now, it was way too powerful for the game. Some smart Valve guy saw them, was reminded of Narbacular Drop, and there we go.

What?

Some Valve guy saw what, exactly? Black hole grenades? Which for some reason reminded him of Narbacular Drop, which reminded him of Portal, which made him decide to put black hole grenades in Portal?

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

[Jintor]

Truth.

[Atomic_Piggy]

Hopwire - Wannabe SLAM.

Blackhole - Looks like hopwire, pulls people in.

Now, it was way too powerful for the game. Some smart Valve guy saw them, was reminded of Narbacular Drop, and there we go.

Actaully your wrong. Valve saw Narbacular Drop at a conference and hired the team on the spot after showing it to Gabe. The portal team has confirmed this. Valve has confirmed this. Your source is wrong. Tell him/her he/she sucks and he/she is wrong. (Plus, the black hole grenade has nothing to do with portal.)

[Rapstah]

Actaully your wrong. Valve saw Narbacular Drop at a conference and hired the team on the spot after showing it to Gabe. The portal team has confirmed this. Valve has confirmed this. Your source is wrong. Tell him/her he/she sucks and he/she is wrong. (Plus, the black hole grenade has nothing to do with portal.)

Yeah, my source sucks. :E

[Xendance]

I'm pleased there were no new weapons. It simply wasn't needed.

I aggree.

[sarcastinator]

Posting on topic (is that allowed here?), I'd like to say I didn't dislike the escort mission as much as some people, but it needed more intensity. And by "intensity" I mean "oh crap, we're gonna die!" I wanted to feel outgunned and desperate like I did the first time I played the Water Hazard chopper chase (which I always thought could have been a bit longer, it was the best part of the chapter); instead it was 'bang, kill some combines, blow some crap up, done'.

Oh, and the non-Alyx AI is still like herding cats. I really hope they seriously overhaul the AI, especially for the other 'special' characters. Barney was fighting aliens when Alyx was figuring out how to use a fork.

[Jintor]

And yet he still likes to charge blindly into landmines.

[Atomic_Piggy]

Yeah, my source sucks. :E

Oh yeah sorry about my harshness. :imu:

[Shift]

And yet he still likes to charge blindly into landmines.

lol indeed

Alyx kicked more ass than barney imo

[Xendance]

I reckon all of it was absolutly brilliant.

[Max35]

I reckon all of it was absolutly brilliant.

That's a little over the top, wouldn't you say. I loved the intro, but not ALL of it was brilliant. The last chapter especially needed to be re-designed, IMO.

The Citadel explosion at the end was great, though.

[KineticAesthetic]

Ah, he's just being a groupie. I'm also not completely sure about the Urban Flight chapters needing more destruction... In my opinion, the kind of ghost ton thing is right- There was alot of destruction in HL2, and after the Citadel began to go critical heaps of citizens just fled... There doesn't need to still be urban warfare of the scale seen in Anticitizen One and Follow Freeman.

[Jambi]

dude just legnth was the main issue for me, i know its only the first in a series of episodes but for its price it was pretty short, i thuoght it was very well done thought no complaints at all

[Tenebrous]

Length was definitely an important issue. When I got on the train, I had absolutely no idea I had come to the end sequence. I was sure we were going to run into more trouble. In retrospect, they should have made every single chapter just a few minutes longer. Episode 1 was much faster-paced than in HL2 (except for the Citadel, which was just awesome) and I recognized and liked that, but I didn't want to sacrifice game length for more action-packed chapters.

Alyx was awesome. I loved having her around. Still, she could have had more urgent dialogue. Just a little more weariness, more fear, stuff like that.

The first two chapters were gold. I loved the ruined citadel. So cool. There could have been more enemies, though. I wanted to use my white gravity gun much more than I did. The elevator part was genius! Great time.

I feel that we did get new weapons in Episode One. The rollermine override function, for example. Flares. Alyx with the sniper rifle. Okay, we didn't get new weapons, but we found new ways to deal damage to our enemies. Just as good, and possibly even more fun.

City 17 could have been more devastated, yes, but the first time I exited the underground to see the Kleinercast, the smoky air, the citadel, the strider, the gutted buildings, it was gold, man! I loved it. Got my dose of dystopia there. No complaints, but there was room for innovation.

Urban flight wasn't so good. The civilians needed better AI. Before the enemies started coming in, I had lined the path towards the train station with barrels, placed rollermines strategically. Didn't work at all when the civilians charged into battle. They should have been moving almost constantly towards the trainstation.

Strider battle could have been more intense, it didn't feel like an end-boss. I would have liked to fight a gunship or strider while on the train. Very cool ending.

[Samon]

Some nice thoughts there Tenebrous. The first two chapters aew easily some of the best Valve have ever produced, and I agree with you on the 'new weapons' front. Flares/Rollermines are simply a more inventive way to take on the enemy than some machine gun variant.

[Mahalis]

First three, methinks. Lowlife was a great setting, more cramped and creepy even than Ravenholm - all the way through, I had the feeling of "I'm god-knows-how-far below the surface, trapped, with a huge explosion on the way, and HOLYSHIT ZOMBIES." :E

[GordonFreeman911]

Episode 1 had a planned new weapon, Black Hole Grenades, but it was dropped and the concept was put into Portal instead.

I know about the Grenades, but what about the concept in portal, which I think is wrong. Are you sure? Source?

[nokori3byo]

I think a useful exercise for wieghing the merits and demerits of Ep. 1 is thinking about what it would have been like as the last 5 chapters of the original HL2. If the whole thing were just stiched together seamlessly, then what would you make of Ep. 1's content? How much of it would seem tiresome and redundant after the rest of HL2.

Now, in a sense, this kind of comparison isn't fair, because the games were created in different timeframes and people are bound to be more tolerant of yet another dark, subterranean zombie level when they haven't played one in nearly two years. But think about it. If you play the games back to back, doesn't Urban Flight seem a little bit too much like Anticitizen One with antlions? It really sort of made Valve seem tapped for ideas, which I don't for a moment believe is the case.

The two Citadel chapters are fully justified, because they addressed the common complaint about the original Citadel levels being two short and not being challenging enough. The final puzzle in Direct Intervention is one of the best in the series, IMO. Not overly difficult, but logical, well-constructed and rewarding.

To my surprise, I actually really liked "Low Life" for two reasons: the tripple-level antlion puzzle was innovative and hectic, and the elevator sequence ended on one of the most brilliantly cinematic notes of any video game scene I've ever played. By chance, the zombies clawing on the gates were all on fire, when I got through it--which was awesome. After that, a well-placed breather with Kleiner's speech then back into the fray.

I was disappointed by "Exit 17", not because I felt it was redundant within the HL2 cycle, but rather because I felt I'd travelled back in time to the 90s, when designers were less conscious of annoying players with repetitive play. Then again, I loved the final battle and the closing scene. With games, as with movies and books, I will overlook a lot, if the ending delivers. Ep 1. served up an finale that was vintage Valve: dark, ambigous, and grandly destructive. Actually, I've always liked the idea that HL2 (proper) could have ended with a train ride out of town. It would impose an elegant symetry on the City 17 saga which, of course ended at the conclusion of Ep. 1.

[Mahalis]

I know about the Grenades, but what about the concept in portal, which I think is wrong. Are you sure? Source?
We've been over that. It's wrong.