Zelda mini review: not that great [Archive]

CptStern

13-11-2006, 04:21 AM

In sum: it's clear that we're playing a GameCube game that's had motion-sensitive controls bolted on in order to move Wii boxes off of retailer shelves. Zelda will do that job admirably -- it will still sell in the millions. It will earn praise. But to compare this title to PC, Xbox 360, and PlayStation 3 games isn't fair to the game. To give any Wii titles a fair shake, we're going to have to compare them to Xbox, PlayStation 2, and GameCube games.

ouch

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/11/nintendos-new-zelda-falls-flat/

theotherguy

13-11-2006, 04:39 AM

:x

What the hell?

The guy goes on to say that signs are illegible, and he can't see how much his bobber is underwater?

Who gives a shit? Those things were in all previous zelda titles, and that didn't stop Ocirana of Time from being one of the greatest games ever. The signs are illegible for economic reasons: an international audience and lack of space to put content. You can't expect the texture artists to labor over thousands and thousands of signs just so you can read them from afar. Oblivion was different because there were a variety of signs that all had the same purpose, and almost every town was the same. In zelda, signs are diverse and give much more information.

Graphics do not make a game, and that seems to be all this asshole is looking at.

Absinthe

13-11-2006, 04:41 AM

There was word of this some time back as well. Wii-capability felt more slapped on than anything.

My opinion on Zelda in general:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v88/absinth3/zelda.gif

dream431ca

13-11-2006, 04:42 AM

I think many people will have that impression until they actually try the Wii.

JNightshade

13-11-2006, 04:44 AM

Meh. Those are all extremely minor issues :/

Steel.Inferno

13-11-2006, 04:48 AM

Graphics whores, like this guy, should be be hanged. You are not gamers.

zleppelin

13-11-2006, 04:54 AM

Graphics whores, like this guy, should be be hanged. You are not gamers.

I think expecting some improvement in the graphics of Wii games over the graphics of GameCube games does not make someone a graphic whore.

Personally, I think it's sad that it's nearly impossible to distinguish a Wii game from a GameCube game.

Steel.Inferno

13-11-2006, 04:58 AM

That's not what he's expecting. This guy is nitpicking over incredibly minor issues instead of reviewing the game/console.

Besides, the graphics are better... Clearly better, atleast in GC games I've played compared to Wii screenies. And console graphics improve over time as developers work with what is available.

<RJMC>

13-11-2006, 05:04 AM

yeah is true all his was "omfg this is not ps3 xbox 360 grafx it stucks!"
its obvious that the wii dont hav thesame amount of power,if they didnt know then they are really not gamers
then if that cases then why not compare psp and ds too since you can play videogame sin them too?

Mechagodzilla

13-11-2006, 05:15 AM

Art direction always supercedes graphics power.

In any case, it should've been clear for years now that game critics are, as a rule, utterly bankrupt in terms of ability to actually critique art.

hungryduck

13-11-2006, 05:20 AM

this worries me......

smwScott

13-11-2006, 05:33 AM

That's just what I was expecting from Zelda. I mean, I highly doubt that the Wiimote will add anything to that game. In fact I will go as far as to say that it is probably better off being played with the regular Gamecube controller (let's not forget, that's what it was designed on). The graphics don't appear to have been noticeably improved either.

Releasing Zelda on the Wii (and worse delaying it for the GC) is a very low blow on Nintendos part, a very transparent attempt to force its' fans to buy a Wii before they normally would have.

Another point: what's the point of releasing a new console at all if not for graphics? The Wiimote could have been released as a Gamecube accessory. For $250 you should get a lot more than access to a new peripheral and slightly improved graphics.

sea

13-11-2006, 05:39 AM

Actually, just about everything I've read has said that the Wii version does control better, once you get used to it, especially when it comes to the aiming of various projective items. There is also the interactivity in the game that just isn't present in the GameCube version. Sure, it's tacked-on, but does that mean it's going to be any less fun?

And for the record, I'm pretty sure that article is intended as a joke. The guy who posted it apparently has a bit of a reputation on Joystiq for being a troll.

Stigmata

13-11-2006, 05:41 AM

Another point: what's the point of releasing a new console at all if not for graphics? The Wiimote could have been released as a Gamecube accessory. For $250 you should get a lot more than access to a new peripheral and slightly improved graphics.Because there's no ****ing way developers would, of their own accord, develop an entire game around the use of an after-market, expensive control accessory based on completely unproven technology and gameplay applications.

This reviewer sounds like a bitch, though. I can see how the "zoom" for sign-reading could get a little irritating, but really, you're not going to read those signs more than once or twice each, and it's going to seem completely inconsequential in a game spanning dozens upon dozens of hours of play. "Oh no, they don't have readable text on signs for a game that doesn't run in HD resolutions, meaning that having signs that are readable at a distance would be a pointless waste of resources!"

Javert

13-11-2006, 06:48 AM

Hah, I'd LIKE to think that we can compare Wii, X360, and PS3 games to the previous generation, that of FFVII, Ocarina of Time, Metal Gear Solid, Splinter Cell, and Resident Evil 2.

AmishSlayer

13-11-2006, 06:53 AM

This article should hardly be even considered a "mini-review".

Let's list the issues he talks about:

-Leaves - color palate (apparently the beautiful scenery I've been seeing in videos screens and other media have been completely wiped out and replaced with drab settings :rolleyes:)

-Gamecube graphics (It's a GC game for f*ck's sake, no shit it won't have high poly counts and crazy DX9-10 visuals - oh noes, I can't tell exactly how deep my bobber is, let's forget that we can feel for the rumble of a fish biting or a sound or any other indication and let's focus on the ever-important "bobber-depth" issue :|)

-Signs - (how hard do you have to look in a game for faults when clicking a button to read a sign is something you write over 1/3 of the article about?)

Fliko

13-11-2006, 07:00 AM

Graphics do not make a game, and that seems to be all this asshole is looking at.

The engine that couldn't. Whenever someone dares voice his misgivings about the Wii's disappointing graphics rendering capability, defenders instantly parry, "It's the game play, stupid!" These folks are right that the controls of games are of primary importance, but do gaming a disservice when they artificially partition game play and graphics. Graphics can (and should) enhance game play.

*coughfanboycough*

The Wii is pretty much a gamecube stacked on with a 'special controller'.
It can't be to demanding in money to do a small upgrade on the specs... I mean, the more powerful, the more capable things you are doing. Just look at Alan Wake. (Well, you know... Of course they're not going to put a quad processor in a Wii. That just be way to expensive, but just to give you an idea)

In my honest opinion, the Wii is just way out of the console wars, if you look at the sales, its pretty much everyone in Japan buying as soon as they can get their hands on it.

Nintendo's 'life insurance' is Japan so to speak. They can, and do make a fortune for pretty much everything.

Lots of people say the console wars are good, but I kinda disagree, all it does is raise lots of fanboys, you've got the Sony people claiming that only the PS3 is next gen, the Nintendo people denying Raw Power has any 'increase' on how fun a game is, and the Microsoft people discrediting anything they hear.

Yes, that review was full of fanboyism, but yet he was attacked with even more fanboyism

For those who aren't fanboys... Damn, do I ever look up to you guys.

Potemkin

13-11-2006, 07:04 AM

I think expecting some improvement in the graphics of Wii games over the graphics of GameCube games does not make someone a graphic whore.

Personally, I think it's sad that it's nearly impossible to distinguish a Wii game from a GameCube game.
I believe that it was one of the developers that mentioned the fact that the graphics in the two versions are shared, in the sense that they're indicative of what the GameCube can muster, and the Wii version is dragged down by that limit. So the graphics in TP are at GC's max, and not the Wii's. If that makes sense. :D

While one could have wished for more graphical focus on the Wii version, it says nothing of the Wii's capabilities, according to a member of the Zelda team.

(Note: I'm not saying that the Wii can match the 360 or the PS3 in technical aspects.)

smwScott

13-11-2006, 07:37 AM

Because there's no ****ing way developers would, of their own accord, develop an entire game around the use of an after-market, expensive control accessory based on completely unproven technology and gameplay applications.[/i]"

My point wasn't that Nintendo should have released the Wiimote for the Gamecube, but that the Wii itself should be considerably more powerful considering the price.

I like the idea of the controller and I like the way it's being used in at least one game (Mario), but I'm not a big fan of the console itself.

Stigmata

13-11-2006, 09:10 AM

My point wasn't that Nintendo should have released the Wiimote for the Gamecube, but that the Wii itself should be considerably more powerful considering the price.Oh.

Well... Nintendo is trying to start the console off with a profit margin of something-greater-than-zero :p

WhiteZero

13-11-2006, 09:31 AM

I think we all knew already that it was a GC game with Wii Controls. It's even an open fact that Twilight is just using a [heavily] modified Wind Waker engine.

Joy needs to get their head out of their ass.

Mutley

13-11-2006, 10:25 AM

Theres a few games that they slapped on the motion technology last minute. Not saying Zelda is one of them.

I'm sure there is plenty of games that will really take the technology on and make it really worth while.

For Graphics, EH? I still can't see how CoD3 looks like Gamecube graphics.

Kschreck

13-11-2006, 10:52 AM

Almost everyone I talked to loves the controls and the game. Several journalists said they could never go back to the GC version. Most people seem to think this game will top OOT. I've seen some amazing things myself in this game. Just wait for the final reviews. :)

Warbie

13-11-2006, 11:59 AM

Let's wait for some proper reviews.

Cormeh

13-11-2006, 12:10 PM

I can't say I'm phased in the slightest.

Raxxman

13-11-2006, 12:29 PM

I remmeber all the arguments about the Cel Shading look of the wind waker.

A lot of those comments are on art style (lots of greys, none readable signs).

Zeldas Zelda, a great game set, people argue that Zelda is the same everytime round, yet they pan the crap out of any changes as soon as they're annonced.

Samon

13-11-2006, 12:50 PM

There was word of this some time back as well. Wii-capability felt more slapped on than anything.

My opinion on Zelda in general:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v88/absinth3/zelda.gif

Quoted for major truth.

Warbie

13-11-2006, 12:56 PM

noob :)

Samon

13-11-2006, 01:00 PM

har har :E

Lucid

13-11-2006, 01:23 PM

That was a piss-poor review, it didn't talk about the story or anything.

Move along...

StardogChampion

13-11-2006, 03:17 PM

http://img166.imageshack.us/img166/4793/92076920050516screen005mv0.jpg
graphical shortcomings result in decreased immersion and a lower overall fun factor
He's trying to say that the engine can't handle readable signs. To read that sign, 1 texture change is all that would be needed. Nintendo could've made them readable if they'd wanted to.

This reviewer sounds like a dumbass with a vendetta.

VictimOfScience

13-11-2006, 03:28 PM

Who actually cares what this idiot thinks?? I will make up my own mind with Zelda and I simply cannot wait to do so!!!

CptStern

13-11-2006, 03:28 PM

lol I find it funny how personally some of you take this reviewers opinion .I mean he's the only one amongst us who's played the game

anyways here's a response from someone else at joystiq

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/12/nintendos-new-zelda-most-certainly-doesnt-fall-flat/

Don't mind my cranky colleague. His childhood was bleak. Devoid of happiness. Mine was full of sunshine. I played in the woods. I climbed trees. I played Zelda games.

Warbie

13-11-2006, 03:38 PM

It was more the silly comments (readable signposts :/) that bugged me - especially suggesting the Wii should be compared to the Xbox and PS2 instead of the 360 and ps3 as though these machines were inferior. I could easily argue that the output of the aging PS2 has been considerably better this year than any format, 360 and pc, despite its lack of technical grunt.

The Wii's lack of power doesn't concern me, it's living up to the pedigree of the series (OoT in particular) that's the challenge. Alot of us expect the best Zelda ever - expectations don't really get any higher in this hobby.

StardogChampion

13-11-2006, 03:41 PM

I could easily argue that the output of the aging PS2 has been considerably better this year than any format
That's true actually. Games like Shadow of the Colossus etc etc.

Warbie

13-11-2006, 03:45 PM

Yup - Canum Canis Edit, Okami, Yakuza, FF12 in the last month alone - it's like the bloody energizer bunny.

VictimOfScience

13-11-2006, 03:57 PM

Yup - Canum Canis Edit, Okami, Yakuza, FF12 in the last month alone - it's like the bloody energizer bunny.
And God of War 2 and Rogue Galaxy soon to come, among others. I LOVE my PS2.

Personally, I think this will be the best Zelda ever, but if its not, it will assuredly be seriously amazing. And I am not worried about the power of the Wii either. As long as developers use their heads and aren't as worried about the almighty dollar, people everywhere will be able to reap the rewards of Nintendo's brilliance. We are already seeing that for the DS, which is why I am so excited about the Wii.

WhiteZero

13-11-2006, 04:01 PM

Yup - Canum Canis Edit, Okami, Yakuza, FF12 in the last month alone - it's like the bloody energizer bunny.

You do realize that Bully didnt get renamed to that, right?
It was a rumor.
Unless it did in other countries...

Anyway, yeah, Okami friggen rocked! Too bad Clover got dissolved by Capcom...

CptStern

13-11-2006, 04:06 PM

You do realize that Bully didnt get renamed to that, right?
It was a rumor.
Unless it did in other countries...

Anyway, yeah, Okami friggen rocked! Too bad Clover got dissolved by Capcom...

it was changed in europe

I think the point the reviewer was trying to make about the sign post and the wii's capabilites was that it was that it had to rely on a workaround (to make the sign legible) because the graphics capability was less than what the reviewer was expecting from a next gen console ...if next gen is exclusive to graphics (which I'm not sugesting but it's what the majority believe) than the wii is "current gen" ..according to the reviewers assessment

Warbie

13-11-2006, 04:11 PM

That depends on whether next gen is determined by visual power, how we play the game, or both. It sounds more like the guy had unrealistic expectations - everyone with an interest in the wii has known it's no more powerful than a GC for months and months.

CptStern

13-11-2006, 04:23 PM

I think we'd be lying to ourselves if we said that the typical gamer's perception of next gen isnt mostly about graphics ...but I agree he should know what to expect

VictimOfScience

13-11-2006, 04:41 PM

I think we'd be lying to ourselves if we said that the typical gamer's perception of next gen isnt mostly about graphics ...but I agree he should know what to expect
Yeah, don't forget physics and AI! :hmph:

CptStern

13-11-2006, 04:46 PM

WhiteZero

13-11-2006, 04:52 PM

no one mentions that ever .. not once in the history of video games has a console sold itself as "next gen" because of AI/physics ..it's all about graphics, that's all anyone ever talks about ..it's unfortunate/crippling to the industry but that's pretty much how gamers want it

Erm... I'm pretty sure that at at least one of the Sony conferences, when they we're talking about the power of the Cell processor, they were excited to tell you "blah blah graphics blah, and deliver to you amazing physics."
Like all the "rubber ducky" demos for PS2 and PS3... that was showing off vertex and physics.

Warbie

13-11-2006, 04:56 PM

I think we'd be lying to ourselves if we said that the typical gamer's perception of next gen isnt mostly about graphics

Perhaps that's something that will change. The DS has shown how well a new control method can be accepted. Eventually the visual race will slow and it'll be all about how we interact with video games.

On a slightly related issue - I was chatting with my brother, who's an artist for The Creative Assembly, about the level of detail in games today and how soon we'll reach photorealism. Already developers are choosing to reduce the detail in certain areas of games, as well as using other techniques to make them appear less lifelike. People don't want games to look real - the idea of the uncanny valley applies just as much to video games, perhaps even more, than it does with animation. Eventually focus will shift towards control and art direction rather than res/aa/af/shaders/polygons. That'll be a good day :)

CptStern

13-11-2006, 05:14 PM

Perhaps that's something that will change. The DS has shown how well a new control method can be accepted. Eventually the visual race will slow and it'll be all about how we interact with video games.

the DS is an exception ..the psp while graphically superior isnt as popular as the DS and that's entirely because of gameplay

On a slightly related issue - I was chatting with my brother, who's an artist for The Creative Assembly, about the level of detail in games today and how soon we'll reach photorealism. Already developers are choosing to reduce the detail in certain areas of games, as well as using other techniques to make them appear less lifelike. People don't want games to look real - the idea of the uncanny valley applies just as much to video games, perhaps even more, than it does with animation. Eventually focus will shift towards control and art direction rather than res/aa/af/shaders/polygons. That'll be a good day :)

I agree ...Oblivion is a good example of that ...realistic to the point of being kinda creepy in a marrionette/manquin sorta way ...games like WoW really push the design above realism and it couldnt be more convincing had they made it more realistic ..I'm kinda tired of reading about new games that are pretty much a bullet list of graphic features over it's competitors/last iteration

Warbie

13-11-2006, 05:21 PM

the DS is an exception

Wii'll see.

Sorry :E

CptStern

13-11-2006, 05:39 PM

lol! horrible that in this day age wii still use that outmoded brand of humour :naughty:

Stigmata

13-11-2006, 09:06 PM

lol! horrible that in this day age wii still use that outmoded brand of humour :naughty:Truly whoreible :naughty:

VictimOfScience

13-11-2006, 09:11 PM

I am getting a little tired of these Wiik attempts at humor...:dozey:

CptStern

13-11-2006, 09:18 PM

VictimOfScience

13-11-2006, 09:29 PM

wii understand such complaints and wii've taken steps to ensure that wii refrain from using wii in the incorrect manner, wii humbly apologise for any offence wii may have caused - signed, wii the people

A, B, C, D, E, F, Wii...H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, Wii...Q, R, S, T, U, Wii...W, X, Y, and Wii. Now I know my ABWiis, won't you please now rub my Wii.

*head explodes*

CptStern

13-11-2006, 09:48 PM

lol!

wheeeee ...oops ..I mean wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!

VictimOfScience

13-11-2006, 10:06 PM

lol!

wheeeee ...oops ..I mean wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!!

Yeah, its been a long time since I've had this much Wii on the brain. Since prison actually...;)

CptStern

13-11-2006, 10:11 PM

well I think of wii all the time

"son, are you sure you dont have to take a wii-wii?"

"no <grunt> daddy"

VictimOfScience

13-11-2006, 10:38 PM

Yes, children all over the world are going to be utterly confounded by the advent of the Wii Entertainment System. Parents too will feel the pain when kids want to throw a Wii party and the pants start coming down and the controllers come out!

Man, when I was young, the Wii entertainment System was free and it was actually attached to my body at the top end of my legs near where they join the rest of my torso. I guess I am just ahead of the times! :naughty:

Max35

13-11-2006, 10:39 PM

A, B, C, D, E, F, Wii...H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, Wii...Q, R, S, T, U, Wii...W, X, Y, and Wii. Now I know my ABWiis, won't you please now rub my Wii.

*head explodes*

I'm scarred for life now....:P

Direwolf

13-11-2006, 10:42 PM

From Penny Arcade today:
I took the Wii home over the weekend and was able to put quite a bit of time into Zelda. There was what I would describe as a “bru ha ha” over at Joystiq when one of their bloggers claimed the game was a flop. He cited its terrible graphics as reason enough to dismiss it entirely. The response in the thread afterwards was heated with lots of people claiming that the graphics weren’t as bad as he claimed and that the game actually looked really good. Having played it all weekend I’m here to tell you that’s not the correct response.

See the problem is that he’s partially right. The game doesn't look very good. I don’t just mean it doesn’t look like Gears of War either, I mean it doesn’t even look good for a GC game and let’s be honest here that’s what we’re talking about. I’ve seen beautiful games on the Cube. Crystal Chronicles, Wind Waker and Resident Evil 4 were all incredible looking games. Twilight Princess can’t really compare to any of them. So he’s right about that, what he’s wrong about is everything else.

Even though the game doesn’t look all that great, it’s still Zelda and it’s ****ing awesome. Our crew plays Gears of War every night and I had a hard time putting down my remote and nun chuck to join them. 1up has a minute by minute write up of the first ten hours of the game which seems ridiculous to me. I don’t know why you’d want to ruin such a great experience and it’s really not necessary. Maybe that’s that new games journalism I’ve heard so much about. Here’s everything you need to know about Twilight Princess:

-Playing Zelda with the Wii controller is super fun. -The game play is a blast. -The story is great. -You’ll never even think about the graphics while you’re playing it.

I recommend avoiding any of the extensive write ups about the game. I’m serious, Twilight Princess is too good to ruin it that way. Just wait a few more days and experience it for yourself.

CptStern

13-11-2006, 10:54 PM