MGS Story question

[ktimekiller]

http://mgsplanet.online.fr/images/tts/tts19.jpg

is the guy in the orange suit raiden? im confused. Im trying to see if i can understand the story without playing the game :P

[DeusExMachina]

You're never going to understand it if you don't play it. The games aren't that hard to beat.

And no, that's Gray Fox. Thats from the first MGS. Raiden wasn't introduced until MGS2.

[ktimekiller]

alright, i see

[Sui]

It's actually a picture from Twin Snakes (The Gamecube remake), which is why the graphics are MGS2 quality.

[AmishSlayer]

If you're trying to get the story from the entire series I suggest you play the games.

Although if you can't, try this link out.

http://db.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/file/metal_gear_solid_13_plot_char.txt

I haven't read it all the way through but it looks like it'll sum things up nicely for you. You might miss some interesting specifics but it'll serve your purposes.

[ktimekiller]

im getting link error.

[Dodo]

It's actually a picture from Twin Snakes (The Gamecube remake), which is why the graphics are MGS2 quality.
wow, didnt realise that it was the gamecube version.. i remember mgs1 on the psx looking soo good. wait let me google grey fox.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a310/dutchbat_felix/1-1.jpg

hmm, ...

-dodo

[AmishSlayer]

im getting link error.

Try this then

http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/ps2/game/913941.html

Then click the "Series Plot/Character Analysis" under the In-Depth Guide section.

EDIT: Check this out or scripts people have transcribed on similar gamefaqs pages.

[Slacker]

DO NOT READ MGS SPOILERS IF YOU HAVE EVER EVEN THOUGHT OF PLAYING THE GAME.

I did that assuming I'd never play the games, and I regretted it later. The stories of MGS are ****ing fantastic and should be experienced first hand, not read off of a ****ing website.

[Gargantou]

DO NOT READ MGS SPOILERS IF YOU HAVE EVER EVEN THOUGHT OF PLAYING THE GAME.

I did that assuming I'd never play the games, and I regretted it later. The stories of MGS are ****ing fantastic and should be experienced first hand, not read off of a ****ing website.
Quoted For ****Ing Truth!

[Samon]

DO NOT READ MGS SPOILERS IF YOU HAVE EVER EVEN THOUGHT OF PLAYING THE GAME.

I did that assuming I'd never play the games, and I regretted it later. The stories of MGS are ****ing fantastic and should be experienced first hand, not read off of a ****ing website.

Disagreed. Kojima is an awful writer. And his stories are average at best.

[Atomic_Piggy]

It's mostly the way the characters talk, answereing everything in the form of a question, its annoying.

[Gray Fox]

If you want to find everything out about mgs go to http://metalgearsolid.org/
The site is great, they have the best explenation of the story, the ideas behind it, the concept of the game and how it fits in with the story, especially of mgs2.
You can even read the original mgs2 gameplan, translated by none other then Laidlaw himself.

[Samon]

How wonderfully interesting of Laidlaw.

[Atomic_Piggy]

:laugh:
BTW theres an error loading the page.

[Slacker]

Disagreed. Kojima is an awful writer. And his stories are average at best.

Explain yourself, or get off my plane.

[ktimekiller]

snakes on a plane

[Gargantou]

snakes on a planeROTFL!:laugh:

[DeusExMachina]

Explain yourself, or get off my plane.

You don't wanna get into this with him. He'll start saying how awful dialogue is, I'll tell him Half-Life 2 is a horrible game, he'll tell everyone how I secretly love all Half-Life games...it's just gonna end messy.

[Samon]

Yeah, and all of our secrets will come out. And it'll all end in tears.

[Combine Hybrid]

MGS plot > Half Life plot

Sorry, but it's the truth. And truth hurts...

[Atomic_Piggy]

MGS plot > Half Life plot

Sorry, but it's the truth. And truth hurts...

I hate it when people (specifically you at the moment) do one or both of these things.

A) Says things like "sorry but its the truth" when its just YOUR opoinion.


B) YOu are not backing up your claims. I refuse to acknoledge your opoinion if you do not show evidence.

[DeusExMachina]

The MGS games existence is evidence enough ;).

But it's all a matter of opinion. I can understand anyone seeing problems with the MGS plot and dialogue. It can get awkward sometimes, no doubt. But, I found that it doesn't happen very often, others would say different.

[Slacker]

MGS plot > Half Life plot

Sorry, but it's the truth. And truth hurts...

Half-Life has better dialogue, MGS has better...well...everything else.

[ríomhaire]

Half-Life has better dialogue, MGS has better...well...everything else.
HL2 has better dialoge and less clichés and makes a bit more sense (there might be alien burocrats stopping time but it doesn't have any magic girls deflecting missles)

[AmishSlayer]

HL2 has better dialoge and less clichés and makes a bit more sense (there might be alien burocrats stopping time but it doesn't have any magic girls deflecting missles)

HL2 has magical teleporting one-eyed aliens and the time and reality bending G-Man...

[Slacker]

HL2 has better dialoge and less clichés and makes a bit more sense (there might be alien burocrats stopping time but it doesn't have any magic girls deflecting missles)

I'll give you that MGS2 had a pretty apeshit plotline.

But the first game had a great plot, and MGS3's plot was beyond incredible.

[Gray Fox]

I'll give you that MGS2 had a pretty apeshit plotline.

But the first game had a great plot, and MGS3's plot was beyond incredible.

Mgs3 Utterly boring and predictable, unless offcourse you never had history class and you need Kojima to tell you about the Cold War.
MGS1 had a very good plot and mgs2 has a birlliant plot.

[Krynn72]

HL2 has magical teleporting one-eyed aliens and the time and reality bending G-Man...

http://www.ssnake.free.fr/Fatman_01.jpg

and he roller skates.

[Sui]

Personally, I think MGS1 is a far better singleplayer game than Half-Life 1. HL1 is great and all, but at the end of the day, it was the engine and the mod scene which brought it success. The storyline was intriguingly vague, but still extremely vague, and I'd rather have a rollercoaster ride full of plot twists and exciting drama than a line of dialogue every 2 hours. In MGS, you know who the characters are, you care for them, you hate them, you travel with them. You know them. In HL1, you have no idea who anyone is or what their purpose is. "Woah, who's that guy? ...I have no idea."

MGS2 was... okay... well... meh. I enjoyed it, but It's not very good. Mainly because of the weirdness. But a very fun game, and the graphics were simply amazing for when the PS2 was released.

[Slacker]

Mgs3 Utterly boring and predictable, unless offcourse you never had history class and you need Kojima to tell you about the Cold War.

Did you and I play a different game or something? Other than a back drop, the story really had NOTHING to do with the Cold War.

[Krynn72]

I liked MGS2 solely for Vamp. He was badass. MGS1 was ok, but I only played it as Twin Snakes, after MGS2. MGS3 was also ok.

I think the whole series is good, but nothing amazing. The dialogue is often way too long and full of word that mean nothing but seem "deep." I do agree that its one of few games that actually make me care for a character though. The only other game that made me care about a character was Deus Ex.

[Gray Fox]

Did you and I play a different game or something? Other than a back drop, the story really had NOTHING to do with the Cold War.
Yes it did, the cold war played a very integral part in the story of snake eater, one it's main themes was how the time and setting influence the perspectief, the cold war was brought up multiple times and explicitly woven in to the plot.

Now as far as MGS2 story beeing shit, well that's probably more on account of you not taking the time to understand it and prematurely judging it.

Fortunatly the majority of the mgs community disagree's with you. Seeing as they have a shitload of great article that delve into mgs2 , in it's plot, it's theme's, it's characters, more so then for any other mgs2 game. http://metalgearsolid.org/features_mgs2.php

[Samon]

MGS plot > Half Life plot

Sorry, but it's the truth. And truth hurts...

Your opinion is not the truth. Go away.

Mgs3 Utterly boring and predictable, unless offcourse you never had history class and you need Kojima to tell you about the Cold War.
MGS1 had a very good plot and mgs2 has a birlliant plot.

I'd agree with MGS3. I mean, the opening was enough of a :|
MGS1 I'd say had a good plot. IMO, saying MGS2 had a brilliant plot is going a little far. Kinda like Kojima took everything too far.

Half-Life has better dialogue, MGS has better...well...everything else.

Disagreed. Completely. Except for the first bit, which is obvious. Better...what, exactly? Very, very little.

HL2 has magical teleporting one-eyed aliens and the time and reality bending G-Man...

Ignoring the existence of the rollerskating mad bomber, the magical arm that possesses a mans mind and can take control of the host, the woman with the ability to divert anything shot at her, the Vampire (yeah, Vampire) who never dies, the man who can control bees, the man with the forked tongue and the...dead man.

And Half-life is science fiction.

[Slacker]

Disagreed. Completely. Except for the first bit, which is obvious. Better...what, exactly? Very, very little.



MGS3 had better character development, story progression, and a better ending. Just my opinion.

[Samon]

Better character development? Thats abit of a joke. :p

[Slacker]

Better character development? Thats abit of a joke. :p

How? Face it, Half-Life focused more on action and gameplay than character development and plot. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because you know what? the Half-Life games have better gameplay. I'm just saying that MGS has more of a focus on plot-like elements, therefore it's better. Not to mention that...hey...I liked the characters and story of MGS better.

[Combine Hybrid]

Your opinion is not the truth. Go away.
Well, opinions are not facts. And your opinion about Half Life > MGS is pretty much an opinion also.

If you don't like my opinion, though luck. Deal with it.

[Slacker]

Well, opinions are not facts.


pin·ion 1 ( p¹n“y…n) n. 1. The wing of a bird. 2. The outer rear edge of the wing of a bird, containing the primary feathers. 3. A primary feather of a bird. v. tr. pin·ioned pin·ion·ing pin·ions 1. a. To remove or bind the wing feathers of (a bird) to prevent flight. b. To cut or bind (the wings of a bird). 2. a. To restrain or immobilize (a person) by binding the arms. b. To bind (a person's arms). 3. To bind fast or hold down; shackle. [Middle English from Old French pignon from Vulgar Latin *pinni ½ pinni½n-from Latin penna, pinna feather; See pinna ]


Well, I'll be damned, he's right!

[Combine Hybrid]

pin·ion 1 ( p¹n“y…n) n. 1. The wing of a bird. 2. The outer rear edge of the wing of a bird, containing the primary feathers. 3. A primary feather of a bird. v. tr. pin·ioned pin·ion·ing pin·ions 1. a. To remove or bind the wing feathers of (a bird) to prevent flight. b. To cut or bind (the wings of a bird). 2. a. To restrain or immobilize (a person) by binding the arms. b. To bind (a person's arms). 3. To bind fast or hold down; shackle. [Middle English from Old French pignon from Vulgar Latin *pinni ½ pinni½n-from Latin penna, pinna feather; See pinna ]


Well, I'll be damned, he's right!
The hell are you babbling about?

[Samon]

Well, opinions are not facts. And your opinion about Half Life > MGS is pretty much an opinion also.

If you don't like my opinion, though luck. Deal with it.

Yeah, that might explain the IMO in my post.

How? Face it, Half-Life focused more on action and gameplay than character development and plot. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, because you know what? the Half-Life games have better gameplay. I'm just saying that MGS has more of a focus on plot-like elements, therefore it's better. Not to mention that...hey...I liked the characters and story of MGS better.


Alot of the plot in Half-life 2 is layered into the environment, as well as the themes it explores. Kojima prefers to slap them in your face at any opportunity, and sadly, instead of subtly putting across his messages he loads them onto a freight train and sets course for the player at full speed.

[DeusExMachina]

Better character development? Thats abit of a joke. :p

No? The entire game is a development of the characters involved. Some find redemption, others another reason to live, etc. I guess the only joke would be that the game is all about character development so that point is null :p.

[Samon]

Ok, maybe 'joke' was silly. But I still didn't get anywhere with some of them. :p

[Sui]

Samon, Half-Life definately lacks character development. Even Alyx, who is an amazing digital character, isn't well developed. I mean, when I saw her basically dead in the Episode Two trailer, I didn't really give a shit, because I know bugger all about her. I do, however, think she's the best female character in video gaming (she smashes annoying, male-orientated portrayals of women on the head), but I'd say the way she is presented is... interesting, and not wholly efficient. Why? No one ever actually talks to Alyx, it's just her topicless monologue, which can get extremely irritating.

[esplin]

Alyx is one of the greatest characters in a videogame because her character develops in a whole new way. Instead of having random intersecting movies where Alyx talks about her torrid past or random scenes where Alyx and Gordon have an "emotional" her character evolves through her actions.

At first it seems like nothing can bog Alyx down, but then she reaches the stalker train and we see her when she has reached her limit. Alyx also avoids many of the videogame cliches, shes not a hardcore soldier chick, shes not a damsel in distress, and shes not merely a love interest.

Kojima couldn't have created a character like Alyx if he had stolen the code from Valve itself.

[Slacker]

Kojima couldn't have created a character like Alyx if he had stolen the code from Valve itself.

Yeah, he ended up creating characters that were a lot better.

[DeusExMachina]

Yeah, he ended up creating characters that were a lot better.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[esplin]

Which character would that be?

The Bond girl ripoff in MGS 3 or the tough-girl stereotype from MGS 1.

[Slacker]

Which character would that be?

The Bond girl ripoff in MGS 3 or the tough-girl stereotype from MGS 1.

Hey look, you took two well-developed characters and generalized them! Good job!

[esplin]

Yeah, he ended up creating characters that were a lot better.

And you made a very general statement with no evidence to back it up. YIPEE!

[Slacker]

And you made a very general statement with no evidence to back it up. YIPEE!

Do I need to back it up? No. You took two characters from the series and generalized them. Simple as that. And guess what, you didn't back up YOUR post either! So good game, hypocrite.

[DeusExMachina]

Which character would that be?

The Bond girl ripoff in MGS 3 or the tough-girl stereotype from MGS 1.

Did you even play the games?

[Slacker]

Did you even play the games?

I was wondering that same thing too, actually.

[esplin]

Yes. I just find that Metal Gear's story was a little cliched, and I don't find any female character that purposely shows of her bra for 3/4 of the game to be a very original character.

[Slacker]

Yes. I just find that Metal Gear's story was a little cliched, and I don't find any female character that purposely shows of her bra for 3/4 of the game to be a very original character.

And a female character with no backstory or personality does?

[esplin]

What backstory does Alyx need? Should she stop in the middle of the game (Kojima-style) and just start blabbering.

"Oh, why Gordon? Why must we continue to fight the Combine? After those 30 years I spent in a mexican prison I thought the torture would be over, but it has only begun."
"Why do you fight, Gordon? Do you fight for your loved ones? for your friends? for your precious crowbar? By the way, I'm going to unzip my shirt and show off my abnormally large knockers, try not to stare while I continue to muse about the past."

Gordon: "Knockers?"

[Slacker]

"Oh, why Gordon? Why must we continue to fight the Combine? After those 30 years I spent in a mexican prison I thought the torture would be over, but it has only begun."
"Why do you fight Gordon? Do you fight for your loved ones? for your friends? for your precious crowbar? By the way I'm going to unzip my shirt and show off my abnormally large knockers, try not to stare while I continue to muse about the past."

Gordon: "Knockers?"

No. I'm not saying that. Like I said to Samon, HL doesn't have bad character development, it just doesn't focus on it as much as MGS, therefore, it's pretty much worse by default. Feel free to continue ignoring my points though.

and for the record, none of the MGS characters really ever go on rants like that.

[esplin]

Did you even play MGS3? Did Boss do anything besides musing?

[DeusExMachina]

It isn't like the character's suddenly started a monologue about how bad their lives have been :|. You don't learn much about Eva until the very end of MGS3 when all the action's over. And with Meryl, she popped a few tidbits about her history every now and then, but nothing that lasted over a minute or two.

Did you even play MGS3? Did Boss do anything besides musing?

I...don't understand the question? What musings exactly?

[Slacker]

Did you even play MGS3? Did Boss do anything besides musing?

Gee, I don't know, said things relevant to the plot?

[esplin]

Just so you know I did enjoy MGS3, but the simple fact that it took itself so seriously while having all these soap opera moments was hilarious. MGS had these, but not nearly as bad.

Edit: Just to get this off my chest. Why does Eva putting on glasses and pulling her hair up completely disguise her from Ocelot. He gets run over by her bike, but when she shows up an hour later wearing glasses he suddenly doesn't recognize her.

[DeusExMachina]

She was wearing a helmet when they encountered each other.

And even if she wasn't, the point raises another question: Why don't people realize Clark Kent is Superman? It's just a little suspension of disbelief. I mean, there are ghosts flying around in the game.

[esplin]

That's true. It just bugs me when MGS goes from a long monologue on the horrors of the Cold War and Globalization to "OH NOEZ. EVIL BEEKEEPER!"

It's just odd.

[Slacker]

That's true. It just bugs me when MGS goes from a long monologue on the horrors of the Cold War and Globalization to "OH NOEZ. EVIL BEEKEEPER!"

It's just odd.

It didn't feel any more "odd" than it should have to me...

[DeusExMachina]

I never really saw them go into a monologue about that. MGS3 seemed to me more like losing faith in one's country and the questioning of people's motives with the Cold War thrown on top. The whole game is about Big Boss's "fall from grace." As much as I love MGS2, that was the only MGS game that really put it in front of your face. MGS and MGS3 were fairly subtle.

[AmishSlayer]

Ignoring the existence of the rollerskating mad bomber, the magical arm that possesses a mans mind and can take control of the host, the woman with the ability to divert anything shot at her, the Vampire (yeah, Vampire) who never dies, the man who can control bees, the man with the forked tongue and the...dead man.

And Half-life is science fiction.

Hey. I never said MGS games are more realistic than HL games. I was merely saying that both have plenty of supernatural in them when neither set out to be completely realistic.

EDIT: Ocelot could have easily just pretended not to notice to further his mission with the Patriots. He's obviously been able to deceive and manipulate on more than one ocassion for the Patriots' purposes.

[Slacker]

Hey. I never said MGS games are more realistic than HL games. I was merely saying that both have plenty of supernatural in them when neither set out to be completely realistic.

I dunno, the first one wasn't exactly "SUPERNATURAL" other than the Gray Fox character, respectivally.

[AmishSlayer]

I dunno, the first one wasn't exactly "SUPERNATURAL" other than the Gray Fox character, respectivally.

Psycho Mantis was a little far-fetched, same with Decoy Octopus and Raven.

Amost all the bosses in MGS games have a touch of supernatural to them which I think makes it more interesting.

[Slacker]

Psycho Mantis was a little far-fetched, same with Decoy Octopus and Raven.

Amost all the bosses in MGS games have a touch of supernatural to them which I think makes it more interesting.

Eh, true, but the story wasn't "BLAH BLAH THE WORLD IS RULED BY 12 DEAD DUDES" or "LOOK AT THE GHOST WITH THE EXIT KEY TO YOUR CELL"

[AmishSlayer]

Eh, true, but the story wasn't "BLAH BLAH THE WORLD IS RULED BY 12 DEAD DUDES" or "LOOK AT THE GHOST WITH THE EXIT KEY TO YOUR CELL"

Oh hell no. The overall story is VERY based in real settings and that's one other thing I like about the series. Just some of the characters had some reality-bending powers.

[Fliko]

Personally, I think MGS1 is a far better singleplayer game than Half-Life 1. HL1 is great and all, but at the end of the day, it was the engine and the mod scene which brought it success. The storyline was intriguingly vague, but still extremely vague, and I'd rather have a rollercoaster ride full of plot twists and exciting drama than a line of dialogue every 2 hours. In MGS, you know who the characters are, you care for them, you hate them, you travel with them. You know them. In HL1, you have no idea who anyone is or what their purpose is. "Woah, who's that guy? ...I have no idea."

MGS2 was... okay... well... meh. I enjoyed it, but It's not very good. Mainly because of the weirdness. But a very fun game, and the graphics were simply amazing for when the PS2 was released.

QFT..

I never knew what the hell I was doing in HL1.

But in MGS.. well, I knew what I was doing, I knew every character, and I felt for them

[ktimekiller]

:O i started a flame war, EVERYONE GTFO MY THREAD!!

The faq read basically told the entire story to me, thanks, i enjoyed reading it

[Atomic_Piggy]

I thought the first two were average at best and third was herecy to all gaming. it was boring...and well, crap.

QFT..

I never knew what the hell I was doing in HL1.

But in MGS.. well, I knew what I was doing, I knew every character, and I felt for them

If you listened to the dialogue AT THE SAME TIME as playing (a very difficult feat I know:rolleyes: ) then you would have known.

[Sui]

To this day I have never seen a game which has perfect character development.

MGS has flaws in that the characters go off on "deep", lengthy rants when they really should be killing terrorists.

HL doesn't actually have much character development.

Now let's leave it at that. MGS and HL are my two favorite game series - DON'T MAKE ME CHOOSE ;(

[Samon]

Samon, Half-Life definately lacks character development. Even Alyx, who is an amazing digital character, isn't well developed. I mean, when I saw her basically dead in the Episode Two trailer, I didn't really give a shit, because I know bugger all about her. I do, however, think she's the best female character in video gaming (she smashes annoying, male-orientated portrayals of women on the head), but I'd say the way she is presented is... interesting, and not wholly efficient. Why? No one ever actually talks to Alyx, it's just her topicless monologue, which can get extremely irritating.

I disagree. Half-life 2 develops it's characters in a different way, a way which I prefer. To me, Alyx is extremely developed. I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say she never talks to anyone - you'd be missing out on Kleiners lab, Black Mesa east, Ravenholms end, Nova Prospekt, Entanglement, Anti-Citizen 1 and Dark Energy. And a few more chapters of Episode 1. :p
I love the way Alyx is presented, and developed, and it's a far more interesting mechanic than that utilized in MGS.

Hey. I never said MGS games are more realistic than HL games. I was merely saying that both have plenty of supernatural in them when neither set out to be completely realistic.

Honest misunderstanding. :p

Yeah, he ended up creating characters that were a lot better.

Yeah, 'The Pain'. Or evil Volgin, toting his scarred face and electric hand busters. Woo.

And a female character with no backstory or personality does?

So now your just talking shit.