A Shocking Yet Upsetting Suprise...

[tokin]

I just don't understand. What made valve turn away from their original ideas to this pixar cartoony new style? I've been playing TFC since day 1, hell, even counter strike since beta 3 or a little before, and i must say TFC consumed a lot of my time, and i mean a lot. That was back in the day though, middle school times...it's irrevelant...fact of the matter is...I'm not only upset, pissed, and confused about this new TF2 style, but i've lost hope....this game was suppose to be all but cartoonish like it is now, for all of you TFC vets. I don't know, i guess I'm just hear to bitch and complain about this new crap, and to make a poll about how the rest of you true TFC fans feel. I guess we can only wait and see what this game turns out like, but i do know my vote goes to the old TF2 ;(

[tokin]

holy shit, talk about not updating my profile in years.....obviously you people can tell im a huge fan...had every video, picture, article, and sound file saved to computer. gayyy i know.

[Dan]

What about the TF vets? We lost a lot of good guys out there and deserve to be recognized too. I remember when there weren't even 9 classes. 2Forts:
http://quake.ravnwood.com/quake_tf/pictures/quake16.gif

[PvtRyan]

I don't remember TFC being a simulation. The visual style of TF2 is a direct result of the mad TFC gameplay. The original TF2 style was more differentiated from TFC's style than the new one is.

[Absinthe]

TFC was always cartoony. The military theme was, in retrospect, flawed and alienating to the true TF spirit.

I personally love the new look, but that's not what matters. What matters is if the same crazy TF gameplay prevails.

[0mar]

Did you even play the original TFC? It was over-the-top in artisical design. THere was a current of realism but it was very faint.

If TF2 looked realistic, it'd look like BF2 and probably end up playing like it too. Now, it has a chance to stick out and actually provide a cool experience.

And remember, nothing is final in the video game industry until the product is in your hands.

[DigiQ8]

after i saw the Portals trailer, i trust valve on anything

[Warbie]

TFC has always looked a little cartoony.

[torso boy]

I like it in terms of graphics, as that's all I can judge now. It seems more fitting that characters like that are flying around the map, and its also alot more interesting than the "lol, camo" style of TFC.

[^Ben]

The "old" TF2 was basically going to be BF2. I don't see how you would of liked that.

"True" fans cant stand an ounce of change, get over yourself. TF was always cartoony. And this will be able to stick with the original feeling of the game.

[Asuka]

TFC veteran, and i think TF2 is going to be great

Never really liked the game, but iv played and seen it evolve from the start. TF2 looks very interesting so far.

[Thadius Dean]

We've only seen one "screenshot" but I'm sure Valve knows what they're doing. They always do :D

[Warbie]

The army look originally intended for TF2 was awful - I couldn't have thought up a more dull setting. Not only do I much prefer the direction TF2 has taken, but feel it's more faithful to TFC.

Let's hope for plenty of new and exciting additions to the game while retaining what made it great in the first place.

[Coolpot]

yep i remember the name tokin from the TF2.sierra.com forums, before they were took offline, i think i was on that site since 1999, im pretty sure you were there too! im not sure what i think, some of me likes the old tf2 idea, but since then, games like BF1942/BF2 have been out and kinda cover that idea.

I guess from looking at that screenie, they are kinda minatures in a toy story kinda world, it sounds quite exciting too, its a whole new gameplay idea, which valve seem to be able to pull off pretty well.

I guess we will know more once the TF2 video is out next week, that will be great :)

[BrimStone04]

TFC veteran, and i think TF2 is going to be great

Never really liked the game, but iv played and seen it evolve from the start. TF2 looks very interesting so far.

just a little confused on that post.....ur a TFC vet but you've never really liked the game?

[jimmyjam]

typical for a 'TFC vet' to be upset about the direction of TF2
guess what! even if you've been playing TFC since day one you're still 3 years late to the game

[Andy018]

I dont think you can class your self as a Veteran TFC'er your only a Veteran if you remember Unholy kingdoms and such like in the original Quakeworld TF

[Darkside55]

holy shit, talk about not updating my profile in years.....obviously you people can tell im a huge fan...had every video, picture, article, and sound file saved to computer.
We're in the same boat. Every picture, video, every source of media, and I bought every magazine that even had the tiniest little mention of TF2 back in the day. So I guess you can see what my opinion on the whole thing is (just check the sig). But I'm sort-of coming to terms with it.

Andy you can be a TFC vet and not have to have played QWTF. TFC just had it's seventh birthday...I think seven years more than qualifies someone as a veteran. Going beyond that is just trying to be an elitist.

Oh, edit:
What made valve turn away from their original ideas to this pixar cartoony new style?
It's probably due to the Battlefield series more than anything. Valve's trying to differentiate now that another game has taken over their ideas. I mailed Gabe about it a few days ago...haven't gotten a reply back. Either he can't (won't) answer the question, or the mail got lost or something.

[dys4iK]

And remember, nothing is final in the video game industry until the product is in your hands.

"Patch 1.34 released for BF2 today, fixing a problem with trees occasionally exploding in mid-air"

[_Z_Ryuken]

"Patch 1.34 released for BF2 today, fixing a problem with trees occasionally exploding in mid-air"
WTF @ hilarious.

I have high hopes for TF2. It's look is fresh. They have enough experience in developing games to make very few if any mistakes.
I believe the sequel can only improve upon the original.

[DESSTROYER]

I hope it doesnt actually have that style ingame... I perfer the "newer" models of tfc. Some of the classes in the tf2 screenshot looks completely...retarded (the hwguy, the medic, the sniper, the soldier, the scout)

[Vourdex]

I have been playing TFC since it came out. I really like the new art style. It is like something fresh and new. I don't know why everyone is so upset about the art direction, it is new and nice and has a sense of humor (as I think it should). Anyway, VALVe says they are going to release a video of TF2 this week. So, we can all decide from there instead of just deciding on a screen shot alone. Also, if TF2 fails horribly, then we always have Fortress Forever (http://www.fortress-forever.com) to fall onto.

[Absinthe]

I hope it doesnt actually have that style ingame... I perfer the "newer" models of tfc. Some of the classes in the tf2 screenshot looks completely...retarded (the hwguy, the medic, the sniper, the soldier, the scout)

I personally thought the updated model pack was horrendous, as well as aimless. I mean, you started off with a cartoony exaggerated style. Then the updated model pack brought in sci-fi military theme. Then TF2 was supposed to have a contemporary military theme. Where's the connection?

And hell, they got rid of the Sniper's floppy hat! **** that, man!

[Warbie]

(the hwguy, the medic, the sniper, the soldier, the scout)

Those are the models I think look the best. Love the medic and that evil needle.

[Dr. Zoidberg]

If you dont like it, mod it.

[Shakermaker]

I knew about TF2 for a long time, never played TFC and I really like the new cartoony style.

[kupocake]

I get what Valve are doing and support it. If Brotherhood of Arms hadn't missed the bus, it could have been a damned fine game, but the fact of the matter is that it did and it now stands on the wrong side of over a half decade of battlefield-esque shooters. What was refreshing and exciting 8 years ago, really isn't anymore. I can't say i'm entirely enamoured with the comic-book stylings, but i'd take them over Battle Fortress any day.

[Opheli@r]

Just downloaded the Video. You don't like the style of the new art work? Supress comments until you have SEEN the video. I loved every frame of it, and the music is also exellent. VALVe has done it again. Cheers!

[DESSTROYER]

still perfer the old team-based style of tf2. when it was in production.

[Absinthe]

still perfer the old team-based style of tf2. when it was in production.

What part of this doesn't look team-based?

[GOoch]

Love it bloody love it.

[JNightshade]

Completely happy with it. Looks bloody fantastic :D

[^Ben]

still perfer the old team-based style of tf2. when it was in production.

Even though you did not get a chance to play it?

I'll give you a hint about what TF2 was basically going to be it was going to be BF2 - if you want to play a military themed shooter with 'realistic' vehicles and a commander mode go play that.

[jimmyjam]

What part of this doesn't look team-based?

cartoons don't have teams, duh

[Crowbar-at-hand]

What is TF2? I heard it was Multiplayer & has Soldier classes.....is it like Battlefield 2/1942/Vietnam?

[Agent.M]

I will agree that the "old" TF2 style was not really related to the cartoony style that TFC was, however I still liked it more. I feel your pain tokin I was really looking foward to that gritty military style gameplay that the "old" TF2 was promising. Since valve is abandoning it I really hope some other company gives it a shot!

[Agent.M]

Even though you did not get a chance to play it?

I'll give you a hint about what TF2 was basically going to be it was going to be BF2 - if you want to play a military themed shooter with 'realistic' vehicles and a commander mode go play that.

TF2 was most definitely not going to another BF2!

[Fat Tony!]

What is TF2? I heard it was Multiplayer & has Soldier classes.....is it like Battlefield 2/1942/Vietnam?

No. It's a game with maps with goals such as CTF, defend and assault etc.... with silly unrealistic flaws like rocket jumping and the magically changing spy uniforms.


Personally im a huge TFC addict, I got hl when it came out and played TFC the year after, im still playing it now. Good game of hunted played today :E.

I think from what we've seen....only models, it looks good. The Video shows us that it works. But we need to see gameplay to really know to be honest.

[^Ben]

TF2 was most definitely not going to another BF2!

I think you should have read up on the concept of TF2 then.

[Agent.M]

I think you should have read up on the concept of TF2 then.

No actually I think you should. Hell all you gotta do is go watch some of the old videos of it, forget the reading.

[^Ben]

The videos did not show off any gameplay. If you actually read the previews and planned features it was going to be BF2 about 4 years before it.

[Darkside55]

The videos did show gameplay. Almost ALL the videos were gameplay. And yes, it would've been TF2, although a bit more arcade-like.

[^Ben]

No, the videos did not show off gameplay. They where the equivalent of this teaser trailer. Little setup segments to show off different elements.

What game am I talking about going by these features.

Vehicles,
Commander Mode,
Big open landscapes,
Classes,
Stats tracking.

I find it very surprising that 'tf vets' have very little idea what TF2 was actually going to be.

[Darkside55]

There were also full-on gameplay segments where the team could be seen rushing a fortress base, in-game. This was accompanied by Valve commentary about the idea of segmented maps, where if the team succeeded in taking this base they'd progress to the next area, a la Dustbowl. There was a video that followed a spy's trek throughout a map, sliding down a wire and walking around. There was a German video that showed a firefight between enemy teams. And there was another video that demonstrated the machinegun's recoil in a trainyard-like map.

[tokin]

There was a German video that showed a firefight between enemy teams. And there was another video that demonstrated the machinegun's recoil in a trainyard-like map.


Yeah, that was the ONE and only video i lost and could never find again. That video promised more than i could imagine, and A LOT of people never even got to see it. Man, i still wish valve stuck with that original idea, it would be somewhat like BF2 but on the steam engine, an entire different gameplay feeling, not as big as maps, or atleast not all of them, and of course...the gameplay would be beyond addicting. Anyone who saw that german video of TF2 would know EXACTLY what i'm talking about. By the way AGENT M...I don't think you remember me but i was the crazy TF2 fanatic back when these forums were a tad bit smaller....i think your alias was Agent Machima or something similiar to that...forgive me.

This new TF2 scares me and upsets me :rolleyes: I'm sure it will be fun and cool and what not...but seriously...WHY VALVE WHYYYYYY

[Absinthe]

Why?

Perhaps because that military theme wasn't anything like TF and because it's been done to death?

Just a guess.

[torso boy]

Why?

Perhaps because that military theme wasn't anything like TF and because it's been done to death?

Just a guess.qft

Tokin, it sounds more like you're a TF2 fan than a TFC fan. Sure, some TFC fans may not like the art style, but I doubt they would rather play a slightly different version of BF2 than a new TFC.

[bigburpco]

IMO TF2 is absolutely going in the right direction.

[Leviticus]

I'm trying to figure out how people aren't completely tired of the industrial, cold, and lifeless military setting by now. If you play a lot of games, and particularly online action games, then you've probably seen entirely more camouflage, AK-47s, and turbans than is healthy. I know I have. I am completely dumb-founded that there are people out there who consider that approach fresh. UT2k4 remains to be my favorite multiplayer game currently if only because it doesn't take itself so seriously.

I welcome the departure and hope that other companies and mod-teams are inspired to let go of the military obsession.

[Fat Tony!]

No actually I think you should. Hell all you gotta do is go watch some of the old videos of it, forget the reading.

It was an interesting idea but it wouldn't had worked in the end. It was too realistic and would had removed the TF factor.

[^Ben]

I'm trying to figure out how people aren't completely tired of the industrial, cold, and lifeless military setting by now. If you play a lot of games, and particularly online action games, then you've probably seen entirely more camouflage, AK-47s, and turbans than is healthy. I know I have. I am completely dumb-founded that there are people out there who consider that approach fresh. UT2k4 remains to be my favorite multiplayer game currently if only because it doesn't take itself so seriously.

I welcome the departure and hope that other companies and mod-teams are inspired to let go of the military obsession.

No more to add.

[Solaris]

I'm a TFC vet, and I'm really unsure.

[^Ben]

I dunno why TFC vets are worried, this looks much more like a TFC sucessor than TF2 was going to be. TF2 was going to be something completely different to the core TF game play.

Or are you going to pull the "zomg I am not as good at the source versions of their games, so they have ruined it and it is nothing like the original!"

[Darkside55]

I think what most people aren't getting is that, at the time, there wasn't such a deluge of military-style shooters when TF2 was promised. Those of us that fell in love with the idea at that time continued to love it even to this day, despite the dramatic shift in FPS games from more arcade-y, futuristic-type shooters to today's dime-a-dozen modern military FPSes.

Yeah, the scene's changed today, and there's all sorts of realistic, gritty, modern (and historical [WW2]) shooters. BUt TF2 was an appealing idea then, and to some of us it's still an appealing idea. Maybe most people can't get behind it because you weren't into TF2. Maybe you were but the gaming menu of today is already full of too much realistic or semi-realistic war for you. But for some of us...loyalty to Brotherhood of Arms, man. Because I would STILL have a grand ol' time sneaking up on somebody as a spy, garotting him, stealing his clothes, and goosestepping back into formation with his squad. I'd still have fun playing an officer, keeping up my team's morale and radioing the commander and other squads. I'd still like to have a single, dumb-fire rocket with the soldier, and marvel at the VOLUMETRIC SMOKE! :laugh: And yeah, I can do a few of those things in BF2 (hell I could even re-enact the spy scene from that video in BF2: Special Forces with the zipline). But I'd rather do them in TF2. Despite any other war games, eff that, man. BoA Loyalty. Eight-year loyalty.

[Samon]

Thank god for this new look. I'm pretty sure TF2 would have simply been a generic military shooter, had it not opted for this brilliant new look it would never have snagged my interest.

[Thadius Dean]

For those doubtful of the graphics, at least it's a change and not a generic FPS look. For those doubtful of the gameplay... well... we know nothing about how it's going to play so your wishes are still able to come true.

[fez]

People hate change, they can't stand it. Me personally can't wait for TF2 I think it looks awesome. The thing I like the most is the fact that the animations and skins fit the gameplay style of TFC. As long as they keep this same style (bunnyhopping, conc nades, rocket jumps etc) I think the game will be a great success.

I do agree with some of the other posters in this thread, I was looking forward to brotherhood of arms very much (I play spy often, and remember there being talk of a controller spider camera for the spy which made me wet my panties!). Things like the commander class who could give orders from an overhead map were also good. What I am preying is that valve may use this game that was supposed to be tf2 originally and maybe use it as another title. We will have to wait and see :)

[Mr.Magnetichead]

I'm a long time player and I love the direction TF2 has taken.

[Absinthe]

We still have only seen the teaser. For all you know, quite a bit from the original TF2 might be carried over, and possibly more.

Regardless though, I have faith that this game will be immensely fun. For whatever their faults may be, Valve do not churn out crap. And if you're going to make TF2, one of the most anticipated games in recent memory, you don't settle for the subpar.

[tokin]

Valve do not churn out crap. And if you're going to make TF2, one of the most anticipated games in recent memory, you don't settle for the subpar.

Valve didn't make much of DOD:S, i know it's just my opinion but i had way more fun playing the original.

As for TF2, Darkside is right...

I think what most people aren't getting is that, at the time, there wasn't such a deluge of military-style shooters when TF2 was promised. Those of us that fell in love with the idea at that time continued to love it even to this day, despite the dramatic shift in FPS games from more arcade-y, futuristic-type shooters to today's dime-a-dozen modern military FPSes.

Even though we have BF2 and all of these other modern day shooters...TF2 would of still been a huge success. The ideas they had at the current time as to showing it now if the design was still the same...it'd be nuts! The gameplay would of been absolutely amazing and addicting and just by watching those old TF2 videos anyone could tell. Too bad valve scrapted it....yeah yeah im all for inovation and new things, and what valve has done to TF2 may turn out fun, but it won't be CRAP compared to their old design if it was to be released today. I still think that the source engine wasn't capable of the many things they wanted to do with their old design, as well as BF2 and other games coming in and making a huge impact....too bad.

[tokin]

I also think many of you never even heard about some of the old ideas as of course TF2 being a themed military shooter game.

...one of the biggest upsets is loosing the commander mode. It was such a huge success with Natural Selection, but that game kinda fell short. Better concept, better ideas = better game. That is what TF2 had in stores for it. You guys can say what you want, but even though valve did change this game entirelly around, the gameplay may turn out fun, but let's just hope this game isn't going to be aimed more towards children than the vass majority of the fans. I can only hope that some of the older TF2 ideas are somehow implimented into this new design and that it doesn't turn out as goofy as im imagining it to be.

http://www.planetfortress.com/tf2/gameinfo/classes_weap.shtml

[Absinthe]

Tokin, I'm seriously ****ing curious as to how you know so much about TF2's gameplay and how it compares the original.

[WhiteZero]

I remember seeing those old ass TF2 concepts in PC Gamer.
Personally, I'm glad VALVe has turned away from the realistic look of combat. In a world of too many WWII games and CS rip-offs, VALVe is setting TF2 apart with it's own style.

Well done VALVe, I cant wait to play something that looks different.

If you want TF2 to be it's original concept, then get togeather a MOD team and make it.

[armanguy]

cant wait to play with the new look :P

[BackFyr]

Well, I'm not a TF vet... heck I have never even played a game of it, but upon seeing the screenshot and subsequent teaser video, it peaked my interest..

And I think what's important to look at is this poll, only 10% are either doubtful vets (3%) and new guys uninterested (7%)... HOWEVER at the time of this poll apprx 79% are stoked about the game (leaving 10% interested but unsure)

So far valve has been able to attract new interest in the game from new players as well as not alienate their base players of TF... that is HUGE for the game's longevity and successfulness

And I can promise you if TF2 would have looked like the BF series, I wouldn't of given it a second look, but this cartoony style looks different and I (like many others) am intrigued even though a week ago I could have cared less about if TF2 was ever released, now I am anxiously awaiting both Ep2, Portals, AND TF2

[^Ben]

I also think many of you never even heard about some of the old ideas as of course TF2 being a themed military shooter game.

...one of the biggest upsets is loosing the commander mode. It was such a huge success with Natural Selection, but that game kinda fell short. Better concept, better ideas = better game. That is what TF2 had in stores for it. You guys can say what you want, but even though valve did change this game entirelly around, the gameplay may turn out fun, but let's just hope this game isn't going to be aimed more towards children than the vass majority of the fans. I can only hope that some of the older TF2 ideas are somehow implimented into this new design and that it doesn't turn out as goofy as im imagining it to be.

http://www.planetfortress.com/tf2/gameinfo/classes_weap.shtml

Ok so what you mean a commander mode just like Quake Wars and BF2? Oh.......

Aimed at children :rolling: Just like the original TF had an exaggerated cartoony look to it... And I don't think many childrens games have the weapons and the game play TF2 will have.

[Agent.M]

Yeah, that was the ONE and only video i lost and could never find again. That video promised more than i could imagine, and A LOT of people never even got to see it. Man, i still wish valve stuck with that original idea, it would be somewhat like BF2 but on the steam engine, an entire different gameplay feeling, not as big as maps, or atleast not all of them, and of course...the gameplay would be beyond addicting. Anyone who saw that german video of TF2 would know EXACTLY what i'm talking about. By the way AGENT M...I don't think you remember me but i was the crazy TF2 fanatic back when these forums were a tad bit smaller....i think your alias was Agent Machima or something similiar to that...forgive me.

This new TF2 scares me and upsets me :rolleyes: I'm sure it will be fun and cool and what not...but seriously...WHY VALVE WHYYYYYY

Hey buddy yah I remember you from back in the day these forums have grown alot...havnt seen you around in awhile! Tho I dont show it I am also one of the biggest TF2 fans out there along with you Tokin, well at least one of the biggest fans of the "old" TF2 may it rest in peace!! ;(

[tokin]

Tokin, I'm seriously ****ing curious as to how you know so much about TF2's gameplay and how it compares the original.

I've watched every TF2 video, which there were only about 5 made, which are ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to find now. I've also read every single interview and preview from 97'ish to present day. That's how i know.


Ok so what you mean a commander mode just like Quake Wars and BF2? Oh.......



Well from my understanding, and from what ive read, it was more towards a Natural Selection basis...but BF2 is a great example...but yes a very similar comparison. A Commander mode use to be planned for TF2, it was a type of position that would order individual soldiers of where to attack and defend, also would deploy weapon barracks, advances for the different soldier classes, and new places and spots to defend on a map. TF2 originally had a few different gameplay types, and one of them was this, i forget what it was called but they were tended for the bigger maps.

As for the "new" TF2, i don't mean to down on it at all, i'm just a little upset they took this new route. I understand that valve is very innovative and went with this new design and what not but it just doesn't do it for me. As for the gameplay, your right Absinthe, i don't know about the NEW TF2 gameplay. But from the looks of it, i can guarantee it won't be as stragetic as the original, or as serious...obviously...and the character classes have changed majorily, with of course the design of TF2 going towards this new funkshway look. This is what valve wanted to do, so it's whatever.

[Absinthe]

I've watched every TF2 video, which there were only about 5 made, which are ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE to find now. I've also read every single interview and preview from 97'ish to present day. That's how i know.

No, I mean how can you possibly know that this current state of TF2 is somehow inferior to what was presented years ago. You talk about how they originally planned some gameplay element a long time ago, but have no way of knowing what the state of such a feature is today.

Look, it's all fine and dandy if you want military strategy and realism. But that's not what Team Fortress is. It's not about squad tactics or anything like that. It's about frenetic, energized, teamplay action with a penchant for the absurd. I don't know what prompted the serious modern combat feel they started TF2 out with, but it's good that Valve got it out of their system one way or the other.

[tokin]

No, I mean how can you possibly know that this current state of TF2 is somehow inferior to what was presented years ago.

I'm not saying that, or not trying to mean it like that. Basically, from how the game looks now as compared to the past, A LOT of cool stuff was dropped. Now I'm not saying new stuff hasn't been added to TF2, because obviously it has. But this new look and design is just insane. What im really curious/concerned about is how far they went with this incredibles/pixar animated action game...the HW guy's machine gun barrel flash is extremelly animated and cartoony...i can only wonder what it will be like when you shoot someone, kill them, blow them up...the gameplay basically. NEW is good, valve is good at that, and im sure TF2 will turn out to be very unique and different compared to other online fps action games. Whether it does well or not, I can only guess it will never be as big as it could of been if valve decided to stick and work on the old design....the possibilities of the past 6 years of silence....who knows. This game surely won't phase as many people as it could, and i'm sure a lot of people would agree with me if they were to read this. I'm done.

[Absinthe]

Oh no, Valve didn't didn't cater to the lowest common denominator if uber-realism military garbage. What a loss!

I really don't care if it doesn't do as well as it could have in its previous iteration. I'm confident it will be popular enough in its own right, and I won't have to deal with as many humorless pre-teen idiots that seem to populate every other military shooter. And I'm sure Valve knows its lost some potential customers because of the change. But that's admirable if they're going to stick to their own course instead of thirsting for a quick buck.

[tokin]

Oh no, Valve didn't didn't cater to the lowest common denominator if uber-realism military garbage. What a loss!

I really don't care if it doesn't do as well as it could have in its previous iteration. I'm confident it will be popular enough in its own right, and I won't have to deal with as many humorless pre-teen idiots that seem to populate every other military shooter. And I'm sure Valve knows its lost some potential customers because of the change. But that's admirable if they're going to stick to their own course instead of thirsting for a quick buck.

Agreed, that's what valve does best, and thats what makes them continue to stand out among the rest of the companies. Well whatever, we'll have to just wait and see. Let's just hope we have EP2 and the rest in our hands this year.

[Crowbar-at-hand]

No, the videos did not show off gameplay. They where the equivalent of this teaser trailer. Little setup segments to show off different elements.

What game am I talking about going by these features.

Vehicles,
Commander Mode,
Big open landscapes,
Classes,
Stats tracking.

I find it very surprising that 'tf vets' have very little idea what TF2 was actually going to be.


If TF2 is going to have at least Vehicles, Big open landscape, Class, Armies etc. That would be a big rip off of the Battlefield Series or even the Franchise.

[Warbie]

I vote for no bloody vehicles!

[Greatgat]

I vote for bloody vehicles in a literal sense!

[Darkside55]

If TF2 is going to have at least Vehicles, Big open landscape, Class, Armies etc. That would be a big rip off of the Battlefield Series or even the Franchise.
Thanks for reading the thread and knowing what you're talking about there. It certainly would've been just awful if Valve, who planned commander mode, vehicular combat, class-based warfare, squadplay, and open landscapes (with progressional maps; you beat one map and the next map the server plays is different depending on who won the previous map) would've stolen it from Dice. Why, when Battlefield 1942 came out FOUR YEARS AFTER TF2 WAS ANNOUNCED, it just wouldn't be fair for Valve to go back and steal all their ORIGINAL IDEAS back, now would they?

We're all just going around in circles here. Tokin, Agent M., and myself seem to be the BoA trifecta, who would still in this day love to see what the real TF2 would've been like, but everyone else, eh. You guys are so hung up on Battlefield and other military shooters that you're repeating, "It's good that that's not the direction Valve went," and "That's not what TF's about." Well let me reiterate again that first of all, TF2 was going to be THE military shooter back in the day. Like, the ONLY one. Sure that's not the direction they went in, but make no mistake, people: Valve only decided to change TF2 because those games are in full-force now, and they just didn't want to be one of the pack. Certainly that's seemed to work, capturing peoples' imaginations, but we all know the only reason they changed it isn't because they were concerned with "the spirit of Team Fortress"; they changed it because they had no other recourse. Their ideas were already out there in circulation. They changed it because THEY HAVE TO BE DIFFERENT. Gabe's radio silence on my e-mail pretty much confirms that, 'cause I asked him straight out if that's what it was and I haven't gotten a reply in nearly a week. They just won't come out and say it.

And to that end, secondly, who are you guys to say what the spirit of Team Fortress is? You know, the only people who can really say that are QWTFers, and even then, man. I've been playing Team Fortress and its iterations across multiple game engines for seven years now; yeah, I know what Team Fortress is about, but I can't really say, "That's not team fortress" because you know what? My name isn't Robin Walker and it isn't John Cook. I also don't work at Valve and I'm not in any position to say what is or isn't team fortress. The creators of Team Fortress say what TF is or isn't, not you, not me, not anyone else. And just remember this...TF2 was THEIR vision. So the next time you say, "I'm a veteran and that isn't what Team Fortress is about!" just remember you're arguing with the CREATORS OF THE GAME. And in essence, you can't do that, because you know what? Creators can come in and do whatever the hell they want and your opinion just goes *poof*. Which is, I'll admit, the sad state of affairs that the BoA loyalists are lamenting right now. But, not our decision.

[JoeCLawrence]

I wouldn't call my self a TFC vet, but I've played TFC and I have to say that is the most cartoony FPS I've played. The new style seems to fit the gamplay almost perfectly. I can definitly understand why they changed styles, because the previous idea would just seem like "Battlefield: Team Fortress" if released now. Sure, it's Valve, and we can trust them to make a good game, but their idea has already been done, and done pretty well. This new style is something completly different, and I'm glad that someone's taking FPS games in a new direction.

[armanguy]

darkside you should write a book :P

[Darkside55]

Hahaha, you have no idea how many times I hear that, and for so many different things. Mm, but I'm actually writing a book-sized thing for Singleplayer Mythology right now anyway, so...;)

Oh, and as not to be off-topic,
I can definitly understand why they changed styles, because the previous idea would just seem like "Battlefield: Team Fortress" if released now. Sure, it's Valve, and we can trust them to make a good game, but their idea has already been done, and done pretty well.
I am going to quote you for the mf-ing truth. Idea's been done to death now, can't very well release yet another war clone game, so they go in a new direction. In truth I am really curious to see where the new TF2 will go, gameplay-wise.

[Tamer17]

But it is the REAL TF2.

Like Valve said , they have alot to say about the development of the game across the years. Maybe the original design and gameplay didn't work well , maybe they had to change stuff , who know why.

When a game is developed for 8 years things are bound to change from what originally was planned.

[Darkside55]

Er, we know why. Oversaturation of realistic military FPSes. Has nothing to do with gameplay not working...obviously the popularity and "me too"-ism of game designers with features like war, teamplay, classes, commander modes, vehicles, and on and on and on and on indicate how effective these ideas are. But because there are so many of them Valve changed their TF2 model.

[Cyber$nake]

No actually I think you should. Hell all you gotta do is go watch some of the old videos of it, forget the reading.

Woah, calm down...hes kinda right...the old TF2 style was VERY much like the Battlefield games. Perhaps at that time the military style would have been unique and top-of-the-line, and theres nothing wrong with military-styled games, its just that that ISNT Team Fortress....TF is about crazy unrealistic action. If you want to play a military game, there have been loads released over the past few years.

[^Ben]

Why, when Battlefield 1942 came out FOUR YEARS AFTER TF2 WAS ANNOUNCED, it just wouldn't be fair for Valve to go back and steal all their ORIGINAL IDEAS back, now would they?



The market is oversaturated with Battlefield clones(Battlefield did it first, does not matter who had the idea first, that does not matter) They would of just been walking into the release of BF21XX and at the time QuakeWars.

Yeah it's quite blatant that BF2 ripped all it's ideas from TF2; but then what would of TF2 had to differentiate itself from BF2 if it came out in it's original form? Nothing except a name that does not really mean alot anymore, so Valve took the right decision and moved away from the original idea into a more unique style which "looks" to be more intune with the original TF. And people are reacting to it; at the moment people are looking at the game market and what do they see? "Realistic" wargame over and over again. Then TF2 pops out and is like "Sup bitches! I be hella fun!"

If you want the original BOA go play BF2 - it would of been the same game(probably BOA would of had less bugs tho ;))

[Darkside55]

Yeah, that's why TF2's getting the reaction it's getting. It's a cartoony-looking game with an emphasis on fun, and that's really something we haven't seen in...well, we haven't seen a lot of period. Even the original TFs had more of a dark quality to them. This is almost...cheerful. And that's very different, which sparks an interest. I am happy for Valve for that reason; it really does stand above the crowd.

I'm really going to say, my passion for TFC will always burn, so if the gameplay of new TF2 is like that I'm still going to love it. I bitch about BoA if only because first off, I really grew attached to the damn thing. Battlefield 2 might be similar, but it wouldn't be BoA, and it never will be, no matter how many of its ideas it implements. Has nothing to do with bugs or the look of the game, the name or what have you (I really like BF2), it's just not Brotherhood of Arms. And the second reason is, well, if someone doesn't complain about it, who will? :p

[tokin]

Has nothing to do with bugs or the look of the game, the name or what have you (I really like BF2), it's just not Brotherhood of Arms. And the second reason is, well, if someone doesn't complain about it, who will? :p


amen.

[GOoch]

I just love it. I think whats been released thus far is brilliant and i cant wait to play this lot on my 360.:cheese:

[Que-Ever]

Hey, if you don't like it, play TFC.

[Crowbar-at-hand]

What i like about Bf2 is its Mods it has a nice mix of mods such as Desert Combat & Forgotten Hope. actually I am BF fan/ Veteran myself. I'd say Why I dont like BF2 is because of the Stat padding, Dolphin Divers, Bunny Hopping (CS tactic's), & n00b toobing. So I hope TF2 is'nt like the BF series (people care about little point for their unlocks rather than having fun).

[Fuse Kazuki]

To tell you the truth, I'm a bit upset with those cartoony models in that TF2 trailor. I thought the models would be more like the old but newer models of TFC.

I think I should see some action and stuff before I judge the game, though.

[Venmoch]

My First Thought?

Pixar, so need to make this their next film........

O.o

[Noobulon]

At the moment people are looking at the game market and what do they see? "Realistic" wargame over and over again.
Then TF2 pops out and is like "Sup bitches! I be hella fun!"...


^^ Sums it up nicely :D


That's why I'm all in favour of the new look

[bigburpco]

Valve Surprise 4: Valve is working with Pixar to make TF2... :O

[MjM]

Hi,

I feel like iv seen nothing so will pass judgment when i know more


Thank you

[Dan]

Valve hired Pixar to make TF2

[neptuneuk]

haha see the poll results!



why are we still complaining about the game change? we already know that TF2 was going to be a BF2 clone that would be bad marketing to release now.

[kilword]

all about quakeworld!
TF and mega TF 4 teh win!
TF veteran here :afro:

http://www.planetfortress.com/miscpf/birthday/intro.jpg
http://quake.ravnwood.com/quake_tf/pictures/attack.gif
http://quake.ravnwood.com/quake_tf/classes/pictures/medic.gif
http://quake.ravnwood.com/quake_tf/pictures/quake16.gif
http://quake.novgorod.net/faq/images/demoman.gif

[Atomic_Piggy]

TFC veteran, and i think TF2 is going to be great

[bigburpco]

Oh noes, thread ressurection! :O

[Dan]

The Mega TF intro vid with the opera music is still stuck in my head. I whistle it sometimes.

[rambler]

shocking 'yet' upsetting? shouldn't it be shocking 'and' upsetting.

and i fail to see what's so shocking or upsetting about the fact that they're making team fortress 2.

[Reaktor4]

shocking 'yet' upsetting? shouldn't it be shocking 'and' upsetting.

and i fail to see what's so shocking or upsetting about the fact that they're making team fortress 2.
Its not tf2, its tfc: source.

[bigburpco]

Revamped medic? Cloaked spies? Improved scout speed and new baton? No sniper red dot?

[nico]

Its not tf2, its tfc: source.

Perhaps you need to up your literacy skills. When the trailer says TF2, it probably means TF2, hey?

Unless ofcourse you're a Valve employee and you are changing the title... :)

[mrmojo]

tfc vet, and tfc was already cartoonish. They just made it look how it plays.

[Lbdwag]

TFC was always cartoony. The military theme was, in retrospect, flawed and alienating to the true TF spirit.

I personally love the new look, but that's not what matters. What matters is if the same crazy TF gameplay prevails.I think that TF2 will be the Unreal version of HL2, just with even more over the top graphics and a lighter side of FPS multiplayer games.... the rocket jump proves that.

[Aek]

Where is the voting option for the QW TF veterans? :frown:
I think the new style is just what TF2 needs!

[Jintor]

New Style looks brilliant and fun. Big change from all the 1337 h4x0r ub3r s1mu14tion games out there right now.

[sup2069]

Did you even play the original TFC? It was over-the-top in artisical design. THere was a current of realism but it was very faint.

If TF2 looked realistic, it'd look like BF2 and probably end up playing like it too. Now, it has a chance to stick out and actually provide a cool experience.

And remember, nothing is final in the video game industry until the product is in your hands.

It better not be like a BF2/DOD:source type combo, slow paced. If so it will fail miserably.

[votka]

I dunno why TFC vets are worried, this looks much more like a TFC sucessor than TF2 was going to be. TF2 was going to be something completely different to the core TF game play.

Or are you going to pull the "zomg I am not as good at the source versions of their games, so they have ruined it and it is nothing like the original!"

That sort of thing always happens with different versions of Team Fortress. The only time I've ever considered myself being flamed was when I mentioned in IRC (in a small channel, mostly people I knew) that I was off to play TFC. What a mistake that was. From the flamer's reaction, you'd think I'd said "I'm off to play TFC, because as we all know QWTF totally sucks as does anyone who ever played it". There'll no doubt be TFC players raging at TF2, just as there are ETF players raging at TFC and vice versa, even though in the end they are all virtually the same game. I think theme at least of TF2 is excellent, I can't wait to see how it plays.

[TaoFan]

Tokin, you seriously think TFC was meant to be a serious military simulation??

So, you call Scouts conc-jumping across the map in 2fort serious do you?

[Ktulu]

I just don't understand. What made valve turn away from their original ideas to this pixar cartoony new style? I've been playing TFC since day 1, hell, even counter strike since beta 3 or a little before, and i must say TFC consumed a lot of my time, and i mean a lot. That was back in the day though, middle school times...it's irrevelant...fact of the matter is...I'm not only upset, pissed, and confused about this new TF2 style, but i've lost hope....this game was suppose to be all but cartoonish like it is now, for all of you TFC vets. I don't know, i guess I'm just hear to bitch and complain about this new crap, and to make a poll about how the rest of you true TFC fans feel. I guess we can only wait and see what this game turns out like, but i do know my vote goes to the old TF2 ;(


http://www.fortress-forever.com/
:]

[Dan]

TFC vets are second generation. Quakeworld TF is where it started.

[Abad]

Man I remember a few years back looking at the TF2 pictures and videos going wow that game is so far in the future its amazing I even had made a website dedicated to news on the game. Now finding out that the game is gonna go cartoonish and nothing like the original plan just makes me lose all faith within this game. Had so much hope for the game I'd almost rather them not make them game and leave us remembering the old realistic ones then them bring this load of crap. :flame:

[Jintor]

Lol, if anything there's too much realistic shit on the market. TFC is gonna be all about the fun and if I can have fun in style, all the better.

[CyberPitz]

Lol, if anything there's too much realistic shit on the market. TFC is gonna be all about the fun and if I can have fun in style, all the better.

Exactly. I'm sick of these "Realistic games" where you get shot twice and you're down for the count *rainbow six*. I want a game that will make me laugh/cry/sechs all in one

[Ravioli]

Im not a TF veteran but i understand those who are. The game has taken a new visual status which i know can be upsetting. I think it will turn out great, why? Beacause it detaches itself from the mainstream bullshit games you see everyday. Its something new, innotive, creative and original. Once again Valve walks away from the mainstream group and does it their way, the way we love it. They wanted to get rid of the WW2/realistic warfare style of game (almost quoted).

[Pulse]

I've been playing TFC since it looked like this;

http://www.viewz.com/games/images/team242.jpg

TF2 looks to be fun, I don't have a problem with the new visuals. I seriously don't know why so many of you are complaining, as posted above you have FF for your more 'realistic' version of TFC.

[Laivasse]

Man I remember a few years back looking at the TF2 pictures and videos going wow that game is so far in the future its amazing I even had made a website dedicated to news on the game. Now finding out that the game is gonna go cartoonish and nothing like the original plan just makes me lose all faith within this game. Had so much hope for the game I'd almost rather them not make them game and leave us remembering the old realistic ones then them bring this load of crap. :flame:

I remember a few years back being just as impressed as you were with what Valve had in mind for TF2. Fact is, it took too long to come out and there are now a hefty clutch of games in existence that have beaten TF2 to the punch - and actually that makes me realise that had TF2 followed its original format, it would have been a bit of a waste.

I would much rather have the new cartooned-up TF as Valve have reinvented it, rather than another dry uber-realistic borefest.

Back in the day, everyone (myself included) was impressed with the more realistic version of what TF2 was going to be, because back then there was no equivalent. Now it's the other way around! There's hardly anything around in today's market that provides the stupid, senseless fun that TF used to. Good move by Valve, I say. Noone was as surprised as I was to see the new-look TF2, but now I'm looking forward to it about as much as Episode 2, because it's a pleasant surprise that TF2 is getting released at all whereas the whole episodic content fiasco has left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth overhanging Ep. 2 (although I still know it will rule).

[L3mur]

TF2 will be great, IMO. I hated how everyone got grenades in TFC; many matches were just explosion after explosion and people using explosions to jump into windows or over everyone's heads. It gets tiring and laggy when that happens. Although I hope they don't change dustbowl too much, that's my favorite map from TFC.